Morocco Moroccan Armed Forces

[Knowledgeseeker]

yeah the navy does need many improvement, it should first contain and rival the algerian navy first

Morocco and algeria is sealed by land. Our navy will have a more important countering the spaniards. Especially in the west where we have tensions regarding the canary island, and our territorial water claims.

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

Morocco and algeria is sealed by land. Our navy will have a more important countering the spaniards. Especially in the west where we have tensions regarding the canary island, and our territorial water claims.

the spanish navy is simply too big and too well armed for us to rival yet, it would take too long to try and catch up

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

the spanish navy is simply too big and too well armed for us to rival yet, it would take too long to try and catch up

Economy is a big factor, but modernizing the navy will pose a threath, and make a balance.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469120267645505551

I hope we will acquire the 2 bergami FREMM class frigates. There is informations that we are there is informations that we negotiate a deal with #Fincantieri. To be continued.

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

Economy is a big factor, but modernizing the navy will pose a threath, and make a balance.

it will, but sadly the naval assets prices is too high
for exemple
the FREMM FRIGATE

Cost	France: €670 million (2014)per unit Italy: €598 million (2016) per unit Morocco: €470 million (2014) per unit USA: US$795 million (2020) for the first unit

with this price u can get multiple advanced fighters, tank modernisations,and so on
thats why the focus is not too big on the navy for now

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

it will, but sadly the naval assets prices is too high
for exemple
the FREMM FRIGATE

Cost	France: €670 million (2014)per unit Italy: €598 million (2016) per unit Morocco: €470 million (2014) per unit USA: US$795 million (2020) for the first unit

with this price u can get multiple advanced fighters, tank modernisations,and so on
thats why the focus is not too big on the navy for now

Latest news is that morocco is gonna acquire the 2 italian frem frigates. I would love to see this:

- 2 more fremm class bergamini ( 3 in total - 4 more corvettes, would love turkish ada class 2400 tons ( 7 corvettes/ 4 new+3 sigma )
- 2 submarines

The naval assets have its own mission, so acquiring more jets or modernizing tanks would not substitute. Maybe our friend @Anmdt can give his two cents about the importance of a strong navy.

 

[Anmdt]

Latest news is that morocco is gonna acquire the 2 italian frem frigates. I would love to see this:

- 2 more fremm class bergamini ( 3 in total - 4 more corvettes, would love turkish ada class 2400 tons ( 7 corvettes/ 4 new+3 sigma )
- 2 submarines

The naval assets have its own mission, so acquiring more jets or modernizing tanks would not substitute. Maybe our friend @Anmdt can give his two cents about the importance of a strong navy.

I can comment in a simple way as this;

Anyone who thinks Naval assets are example, one may also calculate the cost it in the other way;
via;
Deployment time (w Logistics) * Number of required units to have a presence at a location * Maintenance per-sortie * Sorties.

For a ship of FREMM size;
7-8 months * 1 * (1 + (0.5 ~ 0.3)) * 1 sorties

For a fighter jet + patrol aircraft wing;
1 Day (at most via refueling) * Multiples - 2 Patrol + 4 Wings of fighter jet * ( 1 + (0.2 ~ 0.5)) * 240

Or in simple terms, as often discussed among the environmentalist groups; ships are often blamed of having enormous amount of the emissions. In fact, ships provide the lowest emission per-tonnage carried compared to air or ground based transports although this doesn't mean ships are innocent on the emission but being the backbone of the shipping, they bear it.

Same analogy can be applied on her as well. Ships may seem to be expensive per unit, but you in fact it has more gains in unique ways and doesn't replace ASW- ASuW patrol or ASuW configured Fighter Jets 1 to 1 but fills a gap that can not be provided by other means in a cost effective way.

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

Latest news is that morocco is gonna acquire the 2 italian frem frigates. I would love to see this:

- 2 more fremm class bergamini ( 3 in total - 4 more corvettes, would love turkish ada class 2400 tons ( 7 corvettes/ 4 new+3 sigma )
- 2 submarines

The naval assets have its own mission, so acquiring more jets or modernizing tanks would not substitute. Maybe our friend @Anmdt can give his two cents about the importance of a strong navy.

yeah i saw that ,they are in talks with italy about 2 FREMM bergamini frigates
morocco also acquired not long ago some turkish fast deployement ships for SOF
btw @Anmdt are submarines really that important in modern warfare ?
dont they primarly serve as missile carriers nowadays ?

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

I can comment in a simple way as this;

Anyone who thinks Naval assets are example, one may also calculate the cost it in the other way;
via;
Deployment time (w Logistics) * Number of required units to have a presence at a location * Maintenance per-sortie * Sorties.

For a ship of FREMM size;
7-8 months * 1 * (1 + (0.5 ~ 0.3)) * 1 sorties

For a fighter jet + patrol aircraft wing;
1 Day (at most via refueling) * Multiples - 2 Patrol + 4 Wings of fighter jet * ( 1 + (0.2 ~ 0.5)) * 240

Or in simple terms, as often discussed among the environmentalist groups; ships are often blamed of having enormous amount of the emissions. In fact, ships provide the lowest emission per-tonnage carried compared to air or ground based transports although this doesn't mean ships are innocent on the emission but being the backbone of the shipping, they bear it.

Same analogy can be applied on her as well. Ships may seem to be expensive per unit, but you in fact it has more gains in unique ways and doesn't replace ASW- ASuW patrol or ASuW configured Fighter Jets 1 to 1 but fills a gap that can not be provided by other means in a cost effective way.

Make full sense!I hope morocco will strenghten its navy. Morocco dont have the biggest budget for its navy so how important is firepower for the navy? Would it be ideal to have more anti ship missiles, more VLS, and just arm it to the teeth like the american burke class?

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

yeah i saw that ,they are in talks with italy about 2 FREMM bergamini frigates
morocco also acquired not long ago some turkish fast deployement ships for SOF
btw @Anmdt are submarines really that important in modern warfare ?
dont they primarly serve as missile carriers nowadays ?

Yes. I read reports on the fast boats but not the confirmation?

 

[Nilgiri]

yeah i saw that ,they are in talks with italy about 2 FREMM bergamini frigates
morocco also acquired not long ago some turkish fast deployement ships for SOF
btw @Anmdt are submarines really that important in modern warfare ?
dont they primarly serve as missile carriers nowadays ?

Subs are extremely important to gain new dimension of military capability for any nation.

It is opening of (relatively permeable) entire degree of freedom previously inaccessible (i.e underwater).

It is arguably the same kind of difference when sustained flight opened up to humans and we could use a whole new degree of freedom (above land/sea).

In military domain it is the difference now in having an air force versus not having one you can say....given you can think of world surface (be it land or sea) as being curved but essentially planar (limited)....but sea and air are significant depths and altitudes (and this can eventually be extrapolated to space too).....i.e relative volumes rather than surface.

The more realms and degrees of freedom you have to confidently and capably apply (relative to others)....the higher your relative power level is as well.

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

Yes. I read reports on the fast boats but not the confirmation?

yeah i couldnt find anything about the confirmtion,
from what i found out the ships are not even in production yet

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

Subs are extremely important to gain new dimension of military capability for any nation.

It is opening of (relatively permeable) entire degree of freedom previously inaccessible (i.e underwater).

It is arguably the same kind of difference when sustained flight opened up to humans and we could use a whole new degree of freedom (above land/sea).

In military domain it is the difference now in having an air force versus not having one you can say....given you can think of world surface (be it land or sea) as being curved but essentially planar (limited)....but sea and air are significant depths and altitudes (and this can eventually be extrapolated to space too).....i.e relative volumes rather than surface.

The more realms and degrees of freedom you have to confidently and capably apply (relative to others)....the higher your relative power level is as well.

thanks its very informative,
but lets say in the mediterean sea wouldnt countering submarines easier ? with of course specialised modern anti submarine tactics, wouldnt it be very hard to hide there ?

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

The Royal Air Force is studying the possibility of purchasing the F-35 fighter from the United States. Morocco requested support of israeli diplomacy to «convince» the biden administration.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469665977344397315

 

[Nilgiri]

thanks its very informative,
but lets say in the mediterean sea wouldnt countering submarines easier ? with of course specialised modern anti submarine tactics, wouldnt it be very hard to hide there ?

Well each domain has assets and counter-assets to deploy within it but also against other domains.

Domain/realm here being either surface or volume:

I do not put underground as volume to consider in same way (since its relatively non-permeable unlike the others)....and also I ignore the 3rd volume (space) for simplicity and since its not as evolved as the other 4.

But the arrows (power level asset and counter-asset) are well established in all cases between the 4.

The details of these capabilities involve sensoring, analysis (solution finding) and execution....on the (hostile) threat and/or source of interest.

The meta analysis of these form things like tactics and strategy involving them.

In the case of Mediterranean, you can simply see the large established navies there (e.g France, Italy, Spain, Turkey etc) are not abandoning Submarines and plan to keep acquiring them (even in light of significant ASW and relative shallowness of Mediterranean you maybe imply).

Similar to why militaries will keep acquiring assets for their air forces even with anti-air capabilities (even significant ones) making it harder for them to operate compared to before. Simply put there is evolution to counter those anti-air capabilities too.

There will always be such openings (that do not easily make significant asset-concepts redundant or obsolete) as these domains are very big in the end.

Of course you must prioritise acquisition and development of these assets to your resources, needs and most relevant threat profiles.

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]

The Royal Air Force is studying the possibility of purchasing the F-35 fighter from the United States. Morocco requested support of israeli diplomacy to «convince» the biden administration.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469665977344397315

i dont really believe this, since apparently the UAE offered to cover the cost of the deal,
morocco tried in the past to get the f15 but were not successfull in that endeavor.
the F35 seems too costly to maintain, but will give the Air Force the ultimate advantages specially against Algerian Air Fleet, it would be a surprise if this is true, but a wellcome one at that

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

i dont really believe this, since apparently the UAE offered to cover the cost of the deal,
morocco tried in the past to get the f15 but were not successfull in that endeavor.
the F35 seems too costly to maintain, but will give the Air Force the ultimate advantages specially against Algerian Air Fleet, it would be a surprise if this is true, but a wellcome one at that

Its been a couple of times i seen the reports about the interest in F35. Normally the west dont sell their best weapons to the muslim states, but who knows what can happen with the help of israeli lobbying in the US. It would be shocking news if the sale happens, even if its just about acquiring 12 of this f35's!

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Morocco stops the agreement to buy patrol boats from the Spanish company Navantia

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470436333508341768

 

[ProudMoroccanAmazigh]