Absolutely. "知らざるは誤れるに勝る= Yanlış bilmektense bilmemek daha iyidir. "The tender is not been hold yet and you guys know how much it cost, bravo!
sou da yo neAbsolutely. "知らざるは誤れるに勝る= Yanlış bilmektense bilmemek daha iyidir. "
We will see as always time will tell.Ada class was 250M in 2013, the bid was given for FY2013.
Tax exemption affects purchases made related to naval platforms, thus it reflects on steel and nuts directly and this is in force since a long time. Recurring VAT is also dropped. The tax exemption will more reduce the R&D costs than it reflects on the actual product, and at the moment we are not really discussing the R&D costs or adding it on top of the actual product cost. If you have slightest idea on how much the Ada and I-Class R&D has costed then you may see how big will be the gain by removing the tax.
OPV cost reduction is not related to these matters at all It is simply re-evaluation of the needs, removal of certain weapons and conversion to optional, replacing CODAG with CODAE, removing advanced ESM and Radar, Tracking radar with mediocre and simple ones. Redefined mission profile has yielded to a simpler and optionally gunned platform.
I will not continue this further.
According to the latest situations, the VLS, MKE 76/62 will be seperately contracted between MSB and the supplier, thus the bid is going to be given for exemption of these systems and installation of those. So excluding those the bid will be around ~1B, add these and related installation activities on top of that. It surpasses 350 excluding Atmaca and air defense missiles to be supplied by Navy.
Also add 5 to 10% raise in price due to the simultaneous construction as announced by Erdogan.
This is completely wrong. OPV budget was already planned without those subsystems. Those subsystems were optional(FFBNW) from the start. I know it %100 ask around and you will see. No one can construct 2+8 Milgem based OPV with the weapon and sensor load you mentioned without paying a small fortune and we don't have that kind of financial capability. Look at the naval projects that are running in parallel do you think we have 2+ billion extra navy budget to throw on OPVs with the load you suggest? They are planned with that in mind from the start. Those 2+8 OPVs will cost less than 4 Ada class Milgems.OPV cost reduction is not related to these matters at all It is simply re-evaluation of the needs, removal of certain weapons and conversion to optional, replacing CODAG with CODAE, removing advanced ESM and Radar, Tracking radar with mediocre and simple ones. Redefined mission profile has yielded to a simpler and optionally gunned platform.
I will not continue this further.
As far as I know empty hull costs %25-30 of the price.You can not build I class below 350 million usd , especially when you consider milgem without many equipments compared to i class. Only ship with out even cables costs at least 150-200 million USD. Check past Aselsan and havelsan combat management systems deals for milgem ships!! Add that numbers, add weapon system costs with local manufacturing pricess. There is engines costing at least 25-30 million USD ( gas turbine and diesel ones combined).
The ones saying below 300 million USD for i class lives in fairy tales!!
How much does it cost for rmk to build 2 empty milgem for ukraine??As far as I know empty hull costs %25-30 of the price.
The price for exports is different sometimes we charge double the price for certain products. And we don't build empty Milgem bodies for Ukraine we are building full Milgem bodies without some subsystems.How much does it cost for rmk to build 2 empty milgem for ukraine??
This also contradicts with your opv claims ,due being similar to milgem cost decreases!!As far as I know empty hull costs %25-30 of the price.
I know 170 million USD figure for each , with out engines,with out weapons . Additional costs will be added to this price separately,like any Aselsan or havelsan system.The price for exports is different sometimes we charge double the price for certain products. And we don't build empty Milgem bodies for Ukraine we are building full Milgem bodies without some subsystems.
Pakistan MİLGEM Projesi'nin ekonomik büyüklüğüne ilişkin de bilgiler veren Yılmaz, "Yapılacak işin ekonomik büyüklüğü yaklaşık olarak 1 milyar dolar civarında. MİLGEM'lerin fiyatı üzerindeki sistemlere, silahlara göre değişiyor. Bu proje kapsamında Pakistan, elindeki bazı sistemlerden de yararalanacağı için fiyat, normalde başka bir ülkeye satacağımızdan daha düşük. Orijinal konfigürasyonla bunu başka bir ülkeye satıyor olsaydık bir geminin fiyat büyük ihtimalle 300 milyon dolardan aşağı olmayacaktı. Dolayısıyla 4 tanesini 1,2 milyar dolar gibi bir rakam olacaktı." diye konuştu.
Wrong engines are included. Some weapons are also included. Nearly all of the sensors are included. Besides it is export price.I know 170 million USD figure for each , with out engines,with out weapons . Additional costs will be added to this price separately,like any Aselsan or havelsan system.
Re-read my post, i am not telling OPVs were planned with the exact weapon payload as Ada Class. It was planned as Ada Class without heavy weapons but light weapons (Temren etc) keeping the ESM and Radar, Propulsion and FCR the same. Later these were downgraded as Navy's re-evaluation, first to CODAD then the CODAE. Thus the 40% reduction in price have occured by replacing SMART-S with MAR-D, ARES-2N with lighter variant, ADVENT with limited features and less consoles.This is completely wrong. OPV budget was already planned without those subsystems. Those subsystems were optional(FFBNW) from the start. I know it %100 ask around and you will see. No one can construct 2+8 Milgem based OPV with the weapon and sensor load you mentioned without paying a small fortune and we don't have that kind of financial capability. Look at the naval projects that are running in parallel do you think we have 2+ billion extra navy budget to throw on OPVs with the load you suggest? They are planned with that in mind from the start. Those 2+8 OPVs will cost less than 4 Ada class Milgems.
I'm surprised this one has 76mm at the front and Smart-S Mk2 at the mast. Lol, this is a Milgem without RAM and Atmaca. I don't think we have enough budget to produce 10 of this
Those OPVs will be expensive, especially in that configuration, I don't know how we can produce 10 of them. Note that we will also be constructing İstif class and we will probably put TF-2000 on the keel. The calendar of those projects is intersecting. Money doesn't grow on the tree. I'm afraid we have to cut some projects. Let's wait and see.
Not actually, those OPVs are meant to be constructed with ease in a fast-schedule. 10 of those will cost as much as 3 I-Class, or even less.
Look at the naval projects that are running in parallel do you think we have 2+ billion extra navy budget to throw on OPVs with the load you suggest? They are planned with that in mind from the start. Those 2+8 OPVs will cost less than 4 Ada class Milgems.
This is so wrong in many levels, i have no time to correct these neither any intention. Just leaving this comment here so that people knows and not misleaded.That percentage was for the first 4 Milgems where nationalization is lower and weapon and sensor load is a lot better than OPVs. The subsystems and weapons we buy from foreign sources are expensive which makes the hull cost percentage fall down.
Lets give an example. Assume that we have 100 TL to spend.
Milgem Ada class first ship
25 TL for full (high national capability)
25 TL for things like power delivery system, generators, citadel hvac system etc. (Medium national capability)
30 TL for sensor (Medium national capability)
20 TL for weapons (basic national capability)
National contribution percentage %65
Hull percentage is %25 total cost 100TL
Milgem Ada class if we want to build it now
25 TL hull (high national capability)
20 TL for ship subsystems (high national capability)
20 TL for sensors (high national capability)
12 TL for weapons (high national capability)
National contribution percentage %80
Total cost 77 TL Hull percentage %32.5
Milgem Based OPV.
20 TL hull (high national capability)
14 TL for subsystems (high national capability)
8 TL for sensors (high national capability)
4 TL for weapons (high national capability)
National contribution %85
Total cost 46 TL hull percentage %43.5
BTW we gave a price of 300 million $ per ship(1.2 billion in total) to Pakistan for Milgem based frigates(very close to I class specs). Later the price came down when Pakistan decided to modify our first offer and use different weapons and subsystems with separate contracts.
MİLGEM'in 1 milyar dolarlık ihracat yolculuğu
Türk savunma sanayisinin en önemli projelerinden olan MİLGEM, Pakistan'a yapılacak ihracatla, savunmaya katkısının yanında ülke ekonomisine de kazandıracak.www.trthaber.com
You are joking right ??That percentage was for the first 4 Milgems where nationalization is lower and weapon and sensor load is a lot better than OPVs. The subsystems and weapons we buy from foreign sources are expensive which makes the hull cost percentage fall down.
Lets give an example. Assume that we have 100 TL to spend.
Milgem Ada class first ship
25 TL for full (high national capability)
25 TL for things like power delivery system, generators, citadel hvac system etc. (Medium national capability)
30 TL for sensor (Medium national capability)
20 TL for weapons (basic national capability)
National contribution percentage %65
Hull percentage is %25 total cost 100TL
Milgem Ada class if we want to build it now
25 TL hull (high national capability)
20 TL for ship subsystems (high national capability)
20 TL for sensors (high national capability)
12 TL for weapons (high national capability)
National contribution percentage %80
Total cost 77 TL Hull percentage %32.5
Milgem Based OPV.
20 TL hull (high national capability)
14 TL for subsystems (high national capability)
8 TL for sensors (high national capability)
4 TL for weapons (high national capability)
National contribution %85
Total cost 46 TL hull percentage %43.5
BTW we gave a price of 300 million $ per ship(1.2 billion in total) to Pakistan for Milgem based frigates(very close to I class specs). Later the price came down when Pakistan decided to modify our first offer and use different weapons and subsystems with separate contracts.
MİLGEM'in 1 milyar dolarlık ihracat yolculuğu
Türk savunma sanayisinin en önemli projelerinden olan MİLGEM, Pakistan'a yapılacak ihracatla, savunmaya katkısının yanında ülke ekonomisine de kazandıracak.www.trthaber.com
Yes it is like CODELAG (Combine Diesel-Electric and Gas), you may see CODAE (Combine Diesel and Electric) is also referrred as CODELAD (Combined Diesel-Electric and Diesel). With an image;@Anmdt , is CODAE propulsion like CODLAG or CODLOG ? Combined Diesel Electric And/Or Gas? In this case Combined diesel and Electric.? Any similarity to AZP or IEP ?
We are discussing the price of i class actually. Patrol vessel cost will depend on weapon suite that it will have. Could be 150 million or 200 million depending on the suite .Holland Class Opv's and his prices will be good point for your statements guys
Holland-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org