TR Naval Programs

[Huelague]

It depends on the duty, year. just dropping an example one;

2x Gabya, 2x I or Barbaros Class, 1x Submarine

No TF-2000? You think thats enough to cover LPD? I thought you need at least one AAW destroyer.

 

[Anmdt]

No TF-2000? You think thats enough to cover LPD?

TF-2000 is not around till 2030, that is why i indicated "year". If we are looking at 2035, with strategic assets and force projection capability present on Anadolu then we might see see;
1x TF2000, 2x Frigate, 2x I-Class, 2x Submarine, DIMDEG.

If it is an amphibious operation add LSTs, LDGs, and 1-2 more OPVs to provide close to shore protection. If there is Milden then make it 1x Milden + 1x Reis.

 

[Huelague]

TF-2000 is not around till 2030, that is why i indicated "year". If we are looking at 2035, with strategic assets and force projection capability present on Anadolu then we might see see;
1x TF2000, 2x Frigate, 2x I-Class, 2x Submarine, DIMDEG.

If it is an amphibious operation add LSTs, LDGs, and 1-2 more OPVs to provide close to shore protection. If there is Milden then make it 1x Milden + 1x Reis.

Still, without AAW protection with high capabilities, its dangerous.

 

[Anmdt]

Still, without AAW protection with high capabilities, its dangerous.

There will be I-Class hopefully with Hisar-RF and Siper (earlier block) if they get both quad-packed then it will provide sufficient coverage with 64 missiles, Cenk-S with staring mode, 2x Fire control radar on each, but for sure it won't meet the class of TF-2000 with actual Siper and CAFRAD. From 2025 - 2035 I-Class may take over the duty, anyway until 2030 Anadolu will not be carrying high strategic assets aboard and be more of an LHD.

 

[Huelague]

There will be I-Class hopefully with Hisar-RF and Siper (earlier block) if they get both quad-packed then it will provide sufficient coverage with 64 missiles, Cenk-S with staring mode, 2x Fire control radar on each, but for sure it won't meet the class of TF-2000 with actual Siper and CAFRAD. From 2025 - 2035 I-Class may take over the duty, anyway until 2030 Anadolu will not be carrying high strategic assets aboard and be more of an LHD.

I thought more on CAFRAD capabilities.

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 46717

Looks like STM's angle & render job, are they going to release some others too?

 

[UkroTurk]

2x Fire control radar on each,

For what those 2 FCRs? Hisar RF and SİPER will be active radar guided? Why does the ship need 2 FCR?

 

[Anmdt]

For what those 2 FCRs? Hisar RF and SİPER will be active radar guided? Why does the ship need 2 FCR?

Active seekers do not work all-along the way, guess the X band also can be used as a datalink?

 

[UkroTurk]

Active seekers do not work all-along the way, guess the X band also can be used as a datalink?

But there is a rotating AESA radar, CENK. CENK can't upload datalink? Still sounds not comprehensible

 

[Anmdt]

But there is a rotating AESA radar, CENK. CENK can't upload datalink? Still sounds not comprehensible

CENK is in S-Band, technically derived from UMR of the CAFRAD, while on CAFRAD there is a dedicated AESA for illumination, or atleast the MFR in X band can do the "data-link" job i think. They may also install separate data-links with 360 degrees coverage but FCR can be still usefull to track high speed targets, detect missile separation from the planes and track those independently. It is not just to illuminate but also track the target with a finer resolution and stare.

CENK might have a stare mode like that to track the target finely, but could be useful only if there is an additional radar like MAR-D to continue 3D scanning.

 

[UkroTurk]

CENK is in S-Band, technically derived from UMR of the CAFRAD, while on CAFRAD there is a dedicated AESA for illumination, or atleast the MFR in X band can do the "data-link" job i think. They may also install separate data-links with 360 degrees coverage but FCR can be still usefull to track high speed targets, detect missile separation from the planes and track those independently. It is not just to illuminate but also track the target with a finer resolution and stare.

CENK might have a stare mode like that to track the target finely, but could be useful only if there is an additional radar like MAR-D to continue 3D scanning.

I think CENK can do all jobs. IMHO there are two FCR because:the first for 76mm cannon , the rear FCR for helicopters in order to manage approaching, landing.

 

[Anmdt]

I think CENK can do all jobs. IMHO there are two FCR because:the first for 76mm cannon , the rear FCR for helicopters in order to manage approaching, landing.

That FCR (AKREP) is an overkill for if used merely for 76mm and helicopter approaches, it has 100 km tracking and illumination range. There is Block A1-A2 to provide a gunfire support and other necessary functions and to track targets for "tracking only" without illumination.

Also MFRs are usually in C or X band so i deduced that for illumination the C or X band is necessary, i am not sure if Cenk-S can do all that X-band MFR can do, but it can surely do many. If it was the case they wouldn't bother having separate X and S band on CAFRAD.

 

[Altay2071]

TF2000 destroyers are on the way, we can spam those when we have'em.

In the last 30 years we have only built 4 corvettes. Not a single frigate is yet in operation. TF2000 is a dream that will stay like that. Due to economic problems and other reasons it wont be realized.

 

[Manomed]

In the last 30 years we have only built 4 corvettes. Not a single frigate is yet in operation. TF2000 is a dream that will stay like that. Due to economic problems and other reasons it wont be realized.

I class got delated only because of embargoes you know that right? First I class already is getting set up with Its sub systems etc.

 

[Heartbang]

I am not sure we can spam them, they are expensive piece of vessel.

they are also Turkish Navy's answer to the Arleigh Burke class. its better to spam those and not dilly-dally with the lesser classes. its the more efficient way.

In the last 30 years we have only built 4 corvettes. Not a single frigate is yet in operation. TF2000 is a dream that will stay like that. Due to economic problems and other reasons it wont be realized.

thanks to the embargoes @Manomed has stated, we now have the means to make both the frigates and the TF2K ships with impunity. next 3 ships of the I-class are going to be manufactured AT THE SAME TIME. after that, TF2K assembly lines WILL GO BRRRRRRRRRR, and there's no earthly power who can stop that!

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Let's remember the statement of Mr. Ismail Demir regarding the new generation frigate program

Mr Ismail Demir: We are not stopping with I-class frigate. New versions of it are being developed.

In the light of this official information, a very well designed naval program picture emerges. The first ship of the I class will be ready for 2023. This preparation will include Cenk-S, 16x MIDAS, Quad pack Hisar-Rf (further versions), Siper Blk-0/1, Genesis Advent, 16x Atmaca, complete EW package until 2023.

With the self-confidence of these mature naval subsystems, the Next generation frigate which is currently designed, will be developed. It can be said that there will be 32x MIDAS, Siper Blk2, laser gun, drone capability, ULAQ-like USV compatible design lines and Roketsan Levent RAM system that can be added.

Hisar OPV: 8 cell Hisar-Rf/O+
I class: 16x MIDAS
NG Frigate: 32x MIDAS (?)
TF2000: 64x MIDAS

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Our neighbor on the other side of the TurkAegean believes that they have upset balance with French frigate they bought in limited numbers and they pay aprox. 1 billion dollars per ship. In return for this money, France frigates will be built without quad-pack missiles, electronic attack sensors and without RAM-like missile defense system. The first 2 ships will have 16-cell VLS and will be able to carry only 16 Aster missiles. the last ship will have a 32cell VLS and will be able to carry 32 missiles.

These purchases made by Greece reveal to us how important and game changer is the development of our domestic naval industry and designing warships according to our own needs. Even the I-class which will be delivered in 2023, will be superior to the FDIs in terms of the number of anti-ship missiles and air defense missiles and availability of EW sensors. Think about the level of technological gap at the two sides of Aegean with other ongoing projects I have listed.

 

[Saithan]

Yes, but what causes most of us grief is that TN seem to postpone new vessels because of adjustments that adresses changing threat scenarios. Now if Turkey had a better economy and not limited. We all know those lesser vessel as someone said would be built. We’d even give coast guard an ada class or two and expan their field of operation to include EEZ, in short Mavi Vatan. Like how China does it.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Yes, but what causes most of us grief is that TN seem to postpone new vessels because of adjustments that adresses changing threat scenarios. Now if Turkey had a better economy and not limited. We all know those lesser vessel as someone said would be built. We’d even give coast guard an ada class or two and expan their field of operation to include EEZ, in short Mavi Vatan. Like how China does it.

The delay is not related to additional requests based on changing threat scenarios. Turkiye is currently struggling with meaningless and unfair embargoes of West because of following own path and naval industry is one of the areas where these embargoes are seen most intensely in the dimension of strategic products.

Turkiye is currently trying to develop the most strategic products that can equip a ship from head to toe and complete it by 2023 for I class for example. When these strategic sub-products have completed their development, it will only be a matter of decision whether to put the hull on production or to produce all three of them at the same time. Welding the blocks is not the issue here. The main issue is the products subject to embargo and their domestic counterparts Çafrad, Cenk-S, Hisar-Rf, MIDAS, Siper and others.

If we look at how many states in the world integrate their vertical launcher into their own network-centered CMS and integrate air defense and long range deep strike missiles at different ranges into them, provide situational awareness with their own X/S band AESA radars with own semiconductors and develop multi-static sonar, We can understand how valuable and important the work of Turkish engineers is. These high-tech R&D also take time so it is necessary to wait without hurry.

At a time when the world is shaken by crises, hot money is withdrawn from the market and the largest economies are increasing interest rates, I think that Turkey still attaches great importance to the naval industry. Let's examine them with examples from ongoing activities together!

• Construction activities of STM500 submarine started
• Equipping of TCG Istanbul, the first ship of the I-class frigate, continues. It will be delivered in 2023.
• The tender process continues for the simultaneous production of 3 I Class frigates. The winner will be announced this year.
• The critical design phase of the Turkish Type Assault boat project continues. Probably the first welding ceremony will be held this year or in the first quarter of 2023.
• The official tender process for the Tf2000 project will begin this year. Coordinator assignments were made to carry out the project. Probably the construction process will start in a few years.
• The design phase of the Milden submarine continues. Production will begin in 2025.

@Anmdt

 

[Anmdt]

Yes, but what causes most of us grief is that TN seem to postpone new vessels because of adjustments that adresses changing threat scenarios. Now if Turkey had a better economy and not limited. We all know those lesser vessel as someone said would be built. We’d even give coast guard an ada class or two and expan their field of operation to include EEZ, in short Mavi Vatan. Like how China does it.

The OPV's serial construction tender will also commence next year, this is my expectation but likely to happen after launching the first unit and starting sea trials of it.