TR Naval Programs

Saithan

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Naval assets should regularly be replaced using the same vehicle for 50 years (even 30-40) years is pure desperation.

Everyone is looking far ahead and it’s good. But considering our mavi vatan doctrine and how we’re without any ally in this endeavor I think it’s more paramount to get those frigates and destroyers out there not forgetting the fac of course.

I would be much happier knowing we had more frigates than 4 Istif swimming now, adding to our overall firepower. But that would require TN to either increase it’s personelle or efficiency with current personelle.

We may have many shipyards, but those shipyards needs to produce and not stand still. So I think the government is not involving more shipyards to avoid incurring cost. Any shipyard that is awesome enough to have commercial costumers should be protected from getting dragged in to military endeavor, though I have no idea if that would be a hindrance for their business.

Anyway We have our admiral ship let’s keep it that way. Wasting more time and money on it won’t really help us. I think delivering two frigates in the same year/month should be the goal. If we’re going to show off against anyone.
 

Balamir

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ill tell the main difference,
1) Gokdeniz able to fire 4km but phalanx 2km,
2) gokdeniz is good against anti air targets, drones and so on, but only thing gokdeniz is not good is against Indian Russian supersonic missile. as those missiles has no wing, even if you hit them with some airburst, its not enough to shoot them down. but Phalans is good as it can go throught it with its 20mm psecial ammunition..
however, Gokdeniz could be armed with those special bullets for one of its turret for special occasions or when the radar see that its coming, they would have 30-40 seconds to reload those.
What I do about Gökdeniz is not criticism but determination. Why did we see the Phalanx, not Gökdeniz, in the Class I frigate project published in IDEF 2019 before the sanctions? There must be an explanation for this. Pahalanx can be used as a missile or barreled system when desired. And it's a complex system with both C-RAM and air defense derivatives. It is a system in front of Gökdeniz in terms of reaction speed and number of rounds per minute. In addition, Phalanx is a system that has proven itself in the field. Gökdeniz is the first step of Aselsan for marine systems and will not be the last step. As a result, the two systems are not in the same class due to their architecture. Gökdeniz is mostly in the same class as the Rheinmetall Millennium.
447912407.jpg

 

Brave Janissary

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Ed-Jn0z-JWAAE6cr-W.jpg


What was this radars ? There are any guy can define this radars ? We all think a about ufuk is a signt ship but he also test ship right ?
There are any possibilities the ufuk is testing new radar suit for İ class ?

1E2Zmf.jpg


Also ufuk and istanbul class radar masts shows similaritiies .

Ads-z.png


Also there are good place in the back of the i class for rotated x or s band class radar.

-------

Yes, radar panels is small for İ class mission profile but you knows we are have gan based radar module tech and this modules have a very great performans when compared old radar techs and gaas. 300 km s band range and 100-150 km x band range could be great profile for that kind ship and gan technology this sized radars can be enuogh for this.
 
A

adenl

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Ed-Jn0z-JWAAE6cr-W.jpg


What was this radars ? There are any guy can define this radars ? We all think a about ufuk is a signt ship but he also test ship right ?
There are any possibilities the ufuk is testing new radar suit for İ class ?

1E2Zmf.jpg


Also ufuk and istanbul class radar masts shows similaritiies .

Ads-z.png


Also there are good place in the back of the i class for rotated x or s band class radar.

-------

Yes, radar panels is small for İ class mission profile but you knows we are have gan based radar module tech and this modules have a very great performans when compared old radar techs and gaas. 300 km s band range and 100-150 km x band range could be great profile for that kind ship and gan technology this sized radars can be enuogh for this.
Perhaps those 4 panels on the main mast are giant ELINT arrays?
 

Anmdt

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What I do about Gökdeniz is not criticism but determination. Why did we see the Phalanx, not Gökdeniz, in the Class I frigate project published in IDEF 2019 before the sanctions? There must be an explanation for this. Pahalanx can be used as a missile or barreled system when desired. And it's a complex system with both C-RAM and air defense derivatives. It is a system in front of Gökdeniz in terms of reaction speed and number of rounds per minute. In addition, Phalanx is a system that has proven itself in the field. Gökdeniz is the first step of Aselsan for marine systems and will not be the last step. As a result, the two systems are not in the same class due to their architecture. Gökdeniz is mostly in the same class as the Rheinmetall Millennium.
View attachment 12738
Gokdeniz wasn't around by then. Preliminary design was published before idef and sketched on what is avaliable.
Then Gokdeniz development has started and once publicly updated design was present in Idef, publicly we could see gokdeniz on it.
Tf-2000 was shown with phalanx, millenium gun and soon we will see it with gokdeniz.
Gokdeniz is sligtly bulky compared to millenium gun but lets not forget it has standalone mode with its own search and fire control radar and probably more ready to fire rounds as requested by Turkish Navy.
The major problem is the barrel, if MKE or anybody else can develop a 1300 rps barrel, Gokdeniz can get smaller.
I think there were some sketches of a ciws prior to gokdeniz with 20mm-25mm hardshell munition and manpads missile.
Perhaps those 4 panels on the main mast are giant ELINT arrays?
Ed-Jn0z-JWAAE6cr-W.jpg


What was this radars ? There are any guy can define this radars ? We all think a about ufuk is a signt ship but he also test ship right ?
There are any possibilities the ufuk is testing new radar suit for İ class ?

1E2Zmf.jpg


Also ufuk and istanbul class radar masts shows similaritiies .

Ads-z.png


Also there are good place in the back of the i class for rotated x or s band class radar.

-------

Yes, radar panels is small for İ class mission profile but you knows we are have gan based radar module tech and this modules have a very great performans when compared old radar techs and gaas. 300 km s band range and 100-150 km x band range could be great profile for that kind ship and gan technology this sized radars can be enuogh for this.

Probably yes ELINT Radar, most of sensors on TCG Ufuk is confidential and custom, thus not avaliable.
However, the radar on rear side is probably has a standardized application because it was seen in on STM's OPV design , so probably it is 2D search radar. Will be available in catalagoue soon.

The rear platform on I-Class will be used for DIRCM in future
, the ship will not need additional FCR-Illumination radar once it is equipped with fixed panel aesa radar on main mast.

Smart -L is huge and it will obstuct the exhaust while rotating and be exposed to exhaust gas.
Naval assets should regularly be replaced using the same vehicle for 50 years (even 30-40) years is pure desperation.

Everyone is looking far ahead and it’s good. But considering our mavi vatan doctrine and how we’re without any ally in this endeavor I think it’s more paramount to get those frigates and destroyers out there not forgetting the fac of course.

I would be much happier knowing we had more frigates than 4 Istif swimming now, adding to our overall firepower. But that would require TN to either increase it’s personelle or efficiency with current personelle.

We may have many shipyards, but those shipyards needs to produce and not stand still. So I think the government is not involving more shipyards to avoid incurring cost. Any shipyard that is awesome enough to have commercial costumers should be protected from getting dragged in to military endeavor, though I have no idea if that would be a hindrance for their business.

Anyway We have our admiral ship let’s keep it that way. Wasting more time and money on it won’t really help us. I think delivering two frigates in the same year/month should be the goal. If we’re going to show off against anyone.
The life cycle depends on too many variables, NATO suggests 30 year of service span for a frigate.
Advantage of developing and contruction a domestic warship means that upgrades are continous and will be adapted immediately once it became avaliable. No need to wait for MLU or for that new system to be exported. Or, a fresh system can be removed and installed on a newly built platform. When Gabya class retires, all upgraded sensors, Mk41, consoles will be transferred to some other ships.
Like Yavuz class has received EC/ESM upgrade despite of being in the end of their life span.
Some ships can go beyond their economical life just for not being heavily used or sent out to missions. Thus they remain in good condition and can be upgraded (like B-Class and Gabya)
 

Balamir

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Gokdeniz wasn't around by then. Preliminary design was published before idef and sketched on what is avaliable.
Then Gokdeniz development has started and once publicly updated design was present in Idef, publicly we could see gokdeniz on it.
Tf-2000 was shown with phalanx, millenium gun and soon we will see it with gokdeniz.
Gokdeniz is sligtly bulky compared to millenium gun but lets not forget it has standalone mode with its own search and fire control radar and probably more ready to fire rounds as requested by Turkish Navy.
The major problem is the barrel, if MKE or anybody else can develop a 1300 rps barrel, Gokdeniz can get smaller.
I think there were some sketches of a ciws prior to gokdeniz with 20mm-25mm hardshell munition and manpads missile.
Gökdeniz was not ready at IDEF 2019! Class I frigates were not ready either. Gökdeniz was not aboard a ship to enter the inventory in 2023, which is still in production. In addition, in Barbaros modernization, there is Gökdeniz in the front and Phalanx in the back. Why is that? Now, it would not be wrong to say that after CAATSA, there will be double Gökdeniz.

The summary of this discussion is actually this. This was the same reason why CATS was chosen over CMX15. However, the trend towards domestic products after these sanctions will act as a catalyst to pave the way for these products.
 

Huelague

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Swarm Attack,
We always talk about swarm attack from the air by UAV, but what about from the sea? Do we need swarm attack capability from the sea?
 
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Huelague

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My imagine is, dozens of fast maybe remote controlled boats, equipped with 1-2 ASM, to counter LPD and convoys.
 

Anthony

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My imagine is, dozens of fast maybe remote controlled boats, equipped with 1-2 ASM, to counter LPD and convoys.
What is more important with USV's is to supplement existing vessels, possibly by surveillance and illuminating enemy vessels. Once that is done, a ship or land based eg TRLG 230 can target an enemy vessel. This would also be very useful in the Aegean, where coastal positions could be struck.

 

Anmdt

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Gökdeniz was not ready at IDEF 2019! Class I frigates were not ready either. Gökdeniz was not aboard a ship to enter the inventory in 2023, which is still in production. In addition, in Barbaros modernization, there is Gökdeniz in the front and Phalanx in the back. Why is that? Now, it would not be wrong to say that after CAATSA, there will be double Gökdeniz.

The summary of this discussion is actually this. This was the same reason why CATS was chosen over CMX15. However, the trend towards domestic products after these sanctions will act as a catalyst to pave the way for these products.
Gokdeniz at least existed conceptually in and it was going through tests in 2019, and in 2019 I Class was ready, most of the design was completed. It took a while for contract to be signed for procurement of subsystems (probably dealing on who does what).
Gokdeniz wouldn't have been on I-Class if it wasn't sufficient or had deficiencies.
Check previous pages to figure out why there is Phalanx on Barbaros.
1st there are probably avaliable Phalanx in Stock.
2nd the hangar can not support Gokdeniz, and they didn't want to rebuild hangar and subsequent structures.
3th Avaliable space can not accomodate Gokdeniz.

In some of conceptual designs sea zenith also could be seen on some ships.
The conceptual design is made with whatever avaliable at the hand (conceptially or practically existing)

When I class was first sketched, probably even Korkut was going through trials.
 

Balamir

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Gokdeniz at least existed conceptually in and it was going through tests in 2019, and in 2019 I Class was ready, most of the design was completed. It took a while for contract to be signed for procurement of subsystems (probably dealing on who does what).
Gokdeniz wouldn't have been on I-Class if it wasn't sufficient or had deficiencies.
Check previous pages to figure out why there is Phalanx on Barbaros.
1st there are probably avaliable Phalanx in Stock.
2nd the hangar can not support Gokdeniz, and they didn't want to rebuild hangar and subsequent structures.
3th Avaliable space can not accomodate Gokdeniz.

In some of conceptual designs sea zenith also could be seen on some ships.
The conceptual design is made with whatever avaliable at the hand (conceptially or practically existing)

When I class was first sketched, probably even Korkut was going through trials.
Again, I say that Gökdeniz is not enough, not that it is not in the same class as the Phalanx. If there was a Phalanx in stock, the Phalanx would be used in the F515. If Gökdeniz İDEF 2019 was not fully ready, we would not have seen Gökdeniz in the corvette that Dearsan sold to Turkmenistan. Having both in the Barbaros modernization brings to mind the question that Gökdeniz alone may not be enough. But there is no such question anymore. If there is no Phalanx in the inventory, there will be double Gökdeniz in Barbaros due to CAATSA.
 

Anmdt

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Again, I say that Gökdeniz is not enough, not that it is not in the same class as the Phalanx. If there was a Phalanx in stock, the Phalanx would be used in the F515. If Gökdeniz İDEF 2019 was not fully ready, we would not have seen Gökdeniz in the corvette that Dearsan sold to Turkmenistan. Having both in the Barbaros modernization brings to mind the question that Gökdeniz alone may not be enough. But there is no such question anymore. If there is no Phalanx in the inventory, there will be double Gökdeniz in Barbaros due to CAATSA.
Allright you know the best.
 
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