TR Naval Programs

[No Name]

İf 20 fighters engaged, even your destroyer is an easy target because you sent the ship further than your capabilities.

HMS Defender: Russian jets and ships shadow British warship

More than 20 jets and two coastguard ships shadow HMS Defender as it sails near Crimea's coast.

www.google.com

2021 Black Sea incident - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In case of Libya, if Egypt's or Greeks land based AShm systems attacked TF2000 the results would be worse than we could imagine.

Sending a destroyer is a big challenge.

Couldn't Türkiye use the USV as a force multiplier and increase the defensive capabilities of the TCG-Anadolu and TF2000?

By having the USV act as the first line of defence, the TCG-Anadolu and TF2000 have greater air-defence capabilities and a more difficult-to-penetrate solid self-defence shield accompanying them.

 

[boredaf]

Couldn't Türkiye use the USV as a force multiplier and increase the defensive capabilities of the TCG-Anadolu and TF2000?

By having the USV act as the first line of defence, the TCG-Anadolu and TF2000 have greater air-defence capabilities and a more difficult-to-penetrate solid self-defence shield accompanying them.

That's honestly my hope from our USVs. Give our ships 2/4 USVs they can use when necessary and/or build motherships that'll carry a number of USVs to accompany our other ships and use them in air defense.

 

[No Name]

That's honestly my hope from our USVs. Give our ships 2/4 USVs they can use when necessary and/or build motherships that'll carry a number of USVs to accompany our other ships and use them in air defenc.

I honestly thought that from the very start, the plan was to use USVs to make up for the lack of additional air defence frigates and create a fleet of expensive large ships defended by a fleet of much smaller cheaper USVs thus creating a cheap yet effective carrier group.

 

[Aloster]

I honestly thought that from the very start, the plan was to use USVs to make up for the lack of additional air defence frigates and create a fleet of expensive large ships defended by a fleet of much smaller cheaper USVs thus creating a cheap yet effective carrier group.

Approx. 2 weeks ago @Brave Janissary mention it. We have to follow this path. Again previously I said, Our main ships radars has more range and capabilities than our current AD missiles. Via kement, each Ada class can use their capabilities to obtain TF2000 like abilities. Think them with 3 wingman USV. Fastly, easily, cheaply produced 20-30 m lenght USVs navigation radar, optical tracking system, kement link, with inclined position hisar rf, hisar O+ missiles (We don't have to design new missiles) with 8 of them also with 2 cakir . Positioned 10-15 miles away from mother ships. If some one circled like that I'm sure we see good area coverage.

 

[No Name]

Approx. 2 weeks ago @Brave Janissary mention it. We have to follow this path. Again previously I said, Our main ships radars has more range and capabilities than our current AD missiles. Via kement, each Ada class can use their capabilities to obtain TF2000 like abilities. Think them with 3 wingman USV. Fastly, easily, cheaply produced 20-30 m lenght USVs navigation radar, optical tracking system, kement link, with inclined position hisar rf, hisar O+ missiles (We don't have to design new missiles) with 8 of them also with 2 cakir . Positioned 10-15 miles away from mother ships. If some one circled like that I'm sure we see good area coverage.

The main argument against him is that the USVs are too small, but the US has created a new class of USVs called the Medium Displacement Unmanned Surface Vehicle (MDUSV).

The MDUSV that the US developed is called Sea Hunter the Chinese have already made their own copy of it.

The Sea Hunter MDUSV was made for Anti-submarine warfare, it has a displacement of 135 tons and a length of 40 meters, has 30 -90 day endurance and can withstand sea state 5.

From what I can dig up it cost US $20 million to develop, and a sister ship is being built for $35.5 million.

Chinese Clone has a displacement of 200 tons and a length of 46 meters, it can travel at 20 knots or more and can withstand sea state 6.

It seems that the big boys are starting to use large unmanned ships as a force multiplier, Türkiye use the knowledge from the USV to build it's own MDUSVs, that way Türkiye can get away with not building additional frigate.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...yet-at-chinas-sea-hunter-drone-ship-knock-off

 

[Saithan]

So it’s still he same. We need cost effective solutions that scares our opponents.

I still believe that we should have more Ada class corvettes with multirole functions. Think ahead, we could refurbish them and sell or donate them to friendly countries later on as capable vessels. With 16 vls or Short range AD they could funtion as drone killers. If our Frigates are going to be AAW and ASW types our Ada could become more versatile in the support role. We just need to build enough of them. And as it was pointed out our Navy is slightly smalle compared to pur Mavi Vatan Doctrin.

 

[UkroTurk]

TCG ANADOLU could be converted mother ship of unmanned subs, USV etc. This mission is better than landing task.

I am also thinking about cargo planes carrying ASW USV. Imagine such a Naval rapid strike force.

In one hour 4 cargo planes drop USVs far from our shores.

 

[Oublious]

 

[dBSPL]

TCG ANADOLU could be converted mother ship of unmanned subs, USV etc. This mission is better than landing task.

View attachment 61724
I am also thinking about cargo planes carrying ASW USV. Imagine such a Naval rapid strike force.

In my humble opinion, rather than TCG Anadolu, we should work on a drone carrier concept equipped with firepower and electronic systems equivalent to a multirole frigate with a displacement range of 6-9k and capable of performing forward patrol on risky zones, and 3-4 units should be construct over this new class.

 

[No Name]

So it’s still he same. We need cost effective solutions that scares our opponents.

I still believe that we should have more Ada class corvettes with multirole functions. Think ahead, we could refurbish them and sell or donate them to friendly countries later on as capable vessels. With 16 vls or Short range AD they could funtion as drone killers. If our Frigates are going to be AAW and ASW types our Ada could become more versatile in the support role. We just need to build enough of them. And as it was pointed out our Navy is slightly smalle compared to pur Mavi Vatan Doctrin.

If you want numbers and to be cost-effective then rather than an Ada class corvette which costs $250 million per ship you are better off going with MDUSV like Sea Hunter as it costs $35.5 million.

That way you get a much larger size fleet, which can have its own advantage, not to mention crew means no risk of casualties in case one is lost in battle.

 

[boredaf]

In my humble opinion, rather than TCG Anadolu, we should work on a drone carrier concept equipped with firepower and electronic systems equivalent to a multirole frigate with a displacement range of 6-9k and capable of performing forward patrol on risky zones, and 3-4 units should be construct over this new class.

By drones do you mean UAVs or USVs? While I agree, a new class of mothership for USVs make sense, I don't think we can make something else for UAVs, other than maybe also building Trakya and specializing it further for UAVs.

 

[dBSPL]

By drones do you mean UAVs or USVs? While I agree, a new class of mothership for USVs make sense, I don't think we can make something else for UAVs, other than maybe also building Trakya and specializing it further for UAVs.

I mean a frigate form ship, capable of tactical UAVs with some kind of rocket/catapult assisted take-off, meanwhile capable of carrying multiple USV. More precisely, a hybrid class, a warship that can deploy to hot zones without the need for escort, with less personnel and lower sustainment costs. I posted some concept drawings on the forum with my old account. I'll post them again if I can find them.

 

[boredaf]

I mean a frigate form ship, capable of tactical UAVs with some kind of rocket/catapult assisted take-off, meanwhile capable of carrying multiple USV. More precisely, a hybrid class, a warship that can deploy to hot zones without the need for escort, with less personnel and lower sustainment costs. I posted some concept drawings on the forum with my old account. I'll post them again if I can find them.

It would still require at least some runway to allow them to land though, which is why I think a hybrid would lose effectiveness in both sides of the isle. Unless we come up with a VTOL UAV that can also carry substantial payload, that would be amazing. Also, I'd love to see those concepts if you can find them.

And I think one thing we absolutely need to do in all of warships is putting launchers for Alpagut (if it is successful) or some similar loitering munition. It is twice as heavy as MAM-L and heavier than Umtas, it would be great against USV or other asymmetrical threats.

 

[Saithan]

If you want numbers and to be cost-effective then rather than an Ada class corvette which costs $250 million per ship you are better off going with MDUSV like Sea Hunter as it costs $35.5 million.

That way you get a much larger size fleet, which can have its own advantage, not to mention crew means no risk of casualties in case one is lost in battle.

In wartimes sure. But it’s necessary to have good old vessels with crews. Both for presence but also for diplomacy. People interacting with eachother maintaine bonds. Seafaring has been the best proof of these interactions good and bad.

 

[No Name]

In wartimes sure. But it’s necessary to have good old vessels with crews. Both for presence but also for diplomacy. People interacting with eachother maintaine bonds. Seafaring has been the best proof of these interactions good and bad.

I'm not saying to replace every ship in the navy, what I'm saying is to use MDUSV to enhance the number of ships. people here are complaining that Türkiye needs more ships, and the current destroyers are too expensive and too few in number.

the solution I brought up is a way for Türkiye to have its cake and eat it too.

 

[dBSPL]

It would still require at least some runway to allow them to land though, which is why I think a hybrid would lose effectiveness in both sides of the isle. Unless we come up with a VTOL UAV that can also carry substantial payload, that would be amazing. Also, I'd love to see those concepts if you can find them.

And I think one thing we absolutely need to do in all of warships is putting launchers for Alpagut (if it is successful) or some similar loitering munition. It is twice as heavy as MAM-L and heavier than Umtas, it would be great against USV or other asymmetrical threats.

I couldn't find all of them, but some of them I remember were concept works by Rachel Pawling, her works mostly not a bad idea at all.

https://twitter.com/R_P_one

In general, I tend towards hybrid designs. For example, the Absalon class, which is a kind of hybrid landing platform / multi-role frigate, is a design that I like very much. Dedicated platforms are of course much more ideal, but with limited resources and a mountainous list of pending requirements, I am in favor of keeping multi-role and modular flexible design philosophies in mind.


There is already a need for a task force for jet-powered strike UAVs, we can meet this with TCG anadolu or TCG Trakya as an advanced variant derived from it, but we can expand towards more multi-role and economical designs for tactical classes or perhaps UAVs that can take off and land with rocket-assisted take-off and capture mechanisms. For example, for the Hisar class, Batch-II can be created in a 20% enlarged form, and the planning of 2+8 can proceed as 2+4 Hisar-I and 2+2 Hisar-II OPV mothership.

 

[uçuyorum]

I think all these are too big and expensive for what they do. The thing with any platform that is going to be used as some form aircraft carrier the most valuable thing is surface area of the deck for more aircraft. You could instead go for a smaller destroyer with slightly larger hangar for 2-3 helicopters rather than 1 and a few usvs, a few launchers for loitering munitions, then you could have your actual flat top carriers be specialized and more effective for their primary duty plus you wouldn't have to deploy that excessive capability to every mission. Cost effectiveness is more relevant to me. Such large ships are also more useful for oceans and long endurance, higher sea states etc. And I mean what the hell is a stealth aircraft carrier

 

[boredaf]

I couldn't find all of them, but some of them I remember were concept works by Rachel Pawling, her works mostly not a bad idea at all.

https://twitter.com/R_P_one

In general, I tend towards hybrid designs. For example, the Absalon class, which is a kind of hybrid landing platform / multi-role frigate, is a design that I like very much. Dedicated platforms are of course much more ideal, but with limited resources and a mountainous list of pending requirements, I am in favor of keeping multi-role and modular flexible design philosophies in mind.


There is already a need for a task force for jet-powered strike UAVs, we can meet this with TCG anadolu or TCG Trakya as an advanced variant derived from it, but we can expand towards more multi-role and economical designs for tactical classes or perhaps UAVs that can take off and land with rocket-assisted take-off and capture mechanisms. For example, for the Hisar class, Batch-II can be created in a 20% enlarged form, and the planning of 2+8 can proceed as 2+4 Hisar-I and 2+2 Hisar-II OPV mothership.

We are at the opposite ends of this issue I understand why you want hybrid platforms and it makes sense, (in fact, it's usually what I do with cruisers in Hearts of Iron 4 when I play Turkey lol) but I believe our limited resources would be better spend in warships specialised in one area.

These designs have some ideas I really like though. Like side bays for USVs, and what I assume to be loitering munition launcher. I hope we'll see some more ideas from our Navy about all the USVs our firms keep designing/building.

 

[Strong AI]

STM - STM Completes Acceptance Tests of GEMED Project

www.stm.com.tr

 

[Anmdt]

NSSAF is named as GEMED officially by STM. Just a teaser of what the final framework will be capable of;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516435058747482114

Ship Combat Efficiency and Assessment Model - Framework, will enable simulation&analysis of decision-making mechanism for strategy-tactics development, assisting ship design and modernization processes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712412588565246350

GEMED has been through acceptance tests and now in service. Will be used to assess survivability of ships and operational planning of current vessels for certain scenarios and missions. Also will be used for maturing design (components, weapon systems, sensors) for modernization and new buildings.