TR Naval Programs

[YeşilVatan]

Aside from all the Navy's current areas of interest and risk zones, hydrocarbon exploration and extraction activities are starting in the Gulf of Libya this year and off the coast of Somalia next year. The logistics master plan for the strategic Welfare Road from the Basrah to Edirnekapı has been signed and the Gulf is now definitely one of the Turkish Navy's areas of interest. After a while, a navy again, with 7 seas at its center and a sphere of influence that extends from the Gulf of Guinea to friendly and brotherly countries in South Asia.

This new paradigm becomes even more evident when we look at the basing strategies of our navy based on open sources. This situation creates an absolute expansion pressure on the Turkish Navy, both organizationally and platform-wise.

When I share my humble opinion on the future projections of the navy on a platform basis, I generally refrain from making estimates on production numbers. However, in terms of the size of the main surface combatant fleet, I believe that unless we can roughly double the traditionally accepted numbers (16 used to be a very popular figure), our deterrence in this domain will remain limited.

At this point, the development of a group of facilities and workforce within private shipyards focused on military production can be one of the most important weapons in our hands. If we drop into really urgent and essential conditions, the navy has a stronger backing than other force structures, which shows the strategic planning capacity that has been developed over many years.

I get the idea that Air Force and Army planning lagged behind in terms of concrete results. What do you think is the reason for that? How can other two branches (and Gendarmerie I guess) solve their problem with planning ahead?

Edit: or more succinctly, what seperates Navy from other branches that they deliver on these projects?

 

[dBSPL]

I get the idea that Air Force and Army planning lagged behind in terms of concrete results. What do you think is the reason for that? How can other two branches (and Gendarmerie I guess) solve their problem with planning ahead?

Edit: or more succinctly, what seperates Navy from other branches that they deliver on these projects?

For a more accurate answer of your comparative question, the opinions of more competent people can give a healthier idea, while there is a naval expert like ANMDT in our forum who opens the horizons of all of us, what I have to say on this subject will not go beyond unnecessary speculation. However, I think we can all agree that our Navy is markedly different in terms of strategy development.

Mine is an opinion that does not go into the reasons. As an outsider, I see the navy as more prepared at the end of day, and having alternatives for many situation. More importantly, while conditions change over time, the Naval Forces looking more dynamic. For a long time, there were difficulties in acquiring new main combat platforms, but at the end of the day, we now have a much bigger opportunity in exchange for this risk, we can put the national frigates on the slipway three at a time! I don't know if there is a need to keep repeating these things, but we have also turned these frigates into platforms that are free from foreign dependence to an extent that would have been unimaginable for an outsider looking in 20 years ago. And this is not the limit, the next phase will be the deployment of strategic systems on these platforms that cannot be accessed even with unlimited money.

Until this point, no one outside of a narrow circle of interest had even noticed that the Turkish navy was making such a breakthrough. It is the work of a quiet but determined dedication. A dedication that cannot be weakened even by the slanders thrown on the honorable Turkish navy, even by throwing them into dungeons.

 

[UkroTurk]

According to the catalogue AS 3600 has 4500 mile range whereas 3000ton Istif Class has 5500-6500mile range(wikipedia)

AS 3600 might be overloaded and sacrificed the range.

It seems Istif Class very well designed.

So if you want to expand national interests , you need more than as 3600.

IMO we need heavier frigates for instance Dearsan TF142 ( Arrowhead çakması )

Dearsans TF142 has proven design rather than TF4500

 

[dBSPL]

According to the catalogue AS 3600 has 4500 mile range whereas 3000ton Istif Class has 5500-6500mile range(wikipedia)

AS 3600 might be overloaded and sacrificed the range.

It seems Istif Class very well designed.

So if you want to expand national interests , you need more than as 3600.

IMO we need heavier frigates for instance Dearsan TF142 ( Arrowhead çakması )

Dearsans TF142 has proven design rather than TF4500

Aziz Başkan is currently changing Caspian dynamics and busy make Africa great again. lol. Jokes aside, Dearsan is a tremendous success story in the Turkish shipbuilding industry. Professionalism and patriotism have equal weight in this story.

I would love to see an alternative program run by the private sector in parallel with the national warship programs, even on a pilot scale. I have written many posts on this subject in the past. Therefore, it is not possible for me to disagree with what you have written.

 

[uçuyorum]

Interesting detail about Frigate based air defence system and launcher placement.
Looks like Ada class?

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 67502
Interesting detail about Frigate based air defence system and launcher placement.
Looks like Ada class?

ADKG
There is a reason why they can't install it on Ada-Class at that spot. But the module can be installed elsewhere, if available.

These images explain why:

 

[Saithan]

I don't know if anyone saw one of my post under the scandinavian thread, about how Danish Frigate combatting drones had issues with their smart munition and missiles that didn't seem to work (misfire).

I think it's good and important to have smart munition and such, but I believe that systems like Phalanx won't be obsolete unless 30-35mm hardpoint is going to take over the role of CIWS.

Of course I believe that TN is better at testing their arms frequently and won't run into same issues as Danish Navy did.

 

[UkroTurk]

View attachment 67502
Interesting detail about Frigate based air defence system and launcher placement.
Looks like Ada class?

I expect we will see cheaper and more compact missile launcher for Bozdoğan and UMTAS.

Once i heard from our defense authority on internet : "They are working vertically launched Bozdoğan"

Kind a MML

The MML is configured to fire many different kinds of weapons; they launcher recently conducted live fire exercises with an AIM-9X Sidewinder missile and an AGM-114 Hellfire missile.


Another hellfire naval VLS. İmagine we could fit our Bozdoğans and UMTAS in it.

I would put those launchers not vertically but 180 degree horizontally ( not declined)on two side of warships so they could lock without radar and Datalink connection, in case of electronic attack or other problems. The missiles could autonomously engage from TV/IIR sensors .

 

[Zafer]

For ships with no available extra space, above deck removable missile launcher clusters be it VLS or angled can be considered as a solution. This may or may not get in the way of helicopter operations but will give a massive boost to ships capabilities.

 

[Aqerdf]

CFR is shrinked i think:

So UMR is getting bigger, AYR is gone and CFR getting shrink ?

İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı, Dizayn Proje Ofisi (DPO) Müdürlüğü ve TCG İstanbul Fırkateyni Kapılarını Basına Açtı

Ülkemizde 84 özel tersane ve 4 askeri tersane bulunmakta olup bunlar arasında gerek kapasite, gerekse kapsadığı alan açısından en büyüğü tarihi 1455’li yıllara dayanan İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı’dır. 140.000m2’si kapalı alan olmak üzere toplamda 1 Milyon m2 genişliğinde bir alan üzerine...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Anmdt]

CFR is shrinked i think:

View attachment 67549

So UMR is getting bigger, AYR is gone and CFR getting shrink ?

İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı, Dizayn Proje Ofisi (DPO) Müdürlüğü ve TCG İstanbul Fırkateyni Kapılarını Basına Açtı

Ülkemizde 84 özel tersane ve 4 askeri tersane bulunmakta olup bunlar arasında gerek kapasite, gerekse kapsadığı alan açısından en büyüğü tarihi 1455’li yıllara dayanan İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı’dır. 140.000m2’si kapalı alan olmak üzere toplamda 1 Milyon m2 genişliğinde bir alan üzerine...

www.defenceturkey.com

CFR has the same T/R count, installation and assembly has shrunk (which is good).

 

[Radonsider]

CFR has the same T/R count, installation and assembly has shrunk (which is good).

Damn that's a huge miniaturisation then

 

[Anmdt]

Özden Örnek - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We shall not forget the person we owe this thread to.
Rest in Peace Özden Örnek Paşa.

 

[dBSPL]

Özden Örnek - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We shall not forget the person we owe this thread to.
Rest in Peace Özden Örnek Paşa.

A friend of ours asked us on the back page how the naval forces have achieved these strategic gains and are ahead of other force commands. Admirals like Özden Örnek were the Turkish intellectuals and sailors who made this difference. History often writes about admirals who won great naval battles, but the real great leaders are those who created the path to that naval power. Despite all the obstacles, despite all the conspiracies, today the Turkish navy is perhaps the foremost among the rising naval powers of the world. Özden Örnek Paşa was an exemplary Turk as his lastname, may he rest in peace. Nur içinde yatsın.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

A friend of ours asked us on the back page how the naval forces have achieved these strategic gains and are ahead of other force commands. Admirals like Özden Örnek were the Turkish intellectuals and sailors who made this difference. History often writes about admirals who won great naval battles, but the real great leaders are those who created the path to that naval power. Despite all the obstacles, despite all the conspiracies, today the Turkish navy is perhaps the foremost among the rising naval powers of the world. Özden Örnek Paşa was an exemplary Turk as his lastname, may he rest in peace. Nur içinde yatsın.

Bro what difference are you talking , for now Turkish navy is weak amd absolete . For future perhaps will be one of the best top 6 navies . The only land forces is powerfull .
Navy still have free gift rusty trash 8 gabya as main frigates
1 istanbul class that is great with SAMs and Anrinship missiles and good Radar .
and one modernised barbaroes that mean for now have only 2 modern frigates . Aip Submarines still under consctrution since 2000
But i am with you that if everything go as planned Turkish navy will be global player
,For now even airforce is in better shape with 240 f16

 

[Anmdt]

Bro what difference are you talking , for now Turkish navy is weak amd absolete . For future perhaps will be one of the best top 6 navies . The only land forces is powerfull .
Navy still have free gift rusty trash 8 gabya as main frigates
1 istanbul class that is great with SAMs and Anrinship missiles and good Radar .
and one modernised barbaroes that mean for now have only 2 modern frigates . Aip Submarines still under consctrution since 2000
But i am with you that if everything go as planned Turkish navy will be global player
,For now even airforce is in better shape with 240 f16

Yeah man.

 

[dBSPL]

Bro what difference are you talking , for now Turkish navy is weak amd absolete . For future perhaps will be one of the best top 6 navies . The only land forces is powerfull .
Navy still have free gift rusty trash 8 gabya as main frigates
1 istanbul class that is great with SAMs and Anrinship missiles and good Radar .
and one modernised barbaroes that mean for now have only 2 modern frigates . Aip Submarines still under consctrution since 2000
But i am with you that if everything go as planned Turkish navy will be global player
,For now even airforce is in better shape with 240 f16

The Turkish naval forces are currently the most prepared force command for the breakthrough phase against foreign embargoes and political barriers, thanks to the military naval industrial infrastructure and ecosystem that it has pioneered with its effective policies. Even now, the navy has reached the capacity to launch 3 frigates every year if the necessary conditions arise. If a more detailed picture is drawn here, I can even say with confidence that Turkish naval construction capacity will soon become the largest in Europe.

This is the industrial side of the business, but the more strategic issue is the fact that our navy continues its tradition of almost 1000 years in terms of naval strategies and doctrines. For this reason, cliques that do not want to see an independent Turkiye that prioritizes its own interests have always and most severely targeted the Turkish navy. When Libya was invaded under the leadership of France, Turkish navy officers were imprisoned with slander and false cases for this reason. These officers were targeted for developing visions such as Blackseafor in the Black Sea that prioritized regional stability and Turkish interests.

The new paradigm we call the Blue Homeland is the work of the naval forces. The Milgem industrial move was realized with the support of political will, but it was the naval forces' ability to develop a strategy that started when the current political power was a vitamin in oranges and laid the foundations that enabled the political will to be formed.

For nearly 20 years, we have been very slow in acquiring main combat platforms. This is absolutely correct. Dozens of pages could be written about the reasons for this, and we all have.But we need to focus on what we got in return for this risk.

We talk a lot these days about the revitalization of the Turkish hinterland and the expansion of its sphere of influence.One of the only things that makes this possible is that the navy needs to start spreading its wings. If we had not been able to bring these long-term plans and strategies to these days, I would like to say clearly that we would not even be able to talk about these issues. The mill cannot turn with carried water. Neither on the infrastructure side nor on the staff side...

 

[BalkanTurk90]

The Turkish naval forces are currently the most prepared force command for the breakthrough phase against foreign embargoes and political barriers, thanks to the military naval industrial infrastructure and ecosystem that it has pioneered with its effective policies. Even now, the navy has reached the capacity to launch 3 frigates every year if the necessary conditions arise. If a more detailed picture is drawn here, I can even say with confidence that Turkish naval construction capacity will soon become the largest in Europe.

This is the industrial side of the business, but the more strategic issue is the fact that our navy continues its tradition of almost 1000 years in terms of naval strategies and doctrines. For this reason, cliques that do not want to see an independent Turkiye that prioritizes its own interests have always and most severely targeted the Turkish navy. When Libya was invaded under the leadership of France, Turkish navy officers were imprisoned with slander and false cases for this reason. These officers were targeted for developing visions such as Blackseafor in the Black Sea that prioritized regional stability and Turkish interests.

The new paradigm we call the Blue Homeland is the work of the naval forces. The Milgem industrial move was realized with the support of political will, but it was the naval forces' ability to develop a strategy that started when the current political power was a vitamin in oranges and laid the foundations that enabled the political will to be formed.

For nearly 20 years, we have been very slow in acquiring main combat platforms. This is absolutely correct. Dozens of pages could be written about the reasons for this, and we all have.But we need to focus on what we got in return for this risk.

We talk a lot these days about the revitalization of the Turkish hinterland and the expansion of its sphere of influence.One of the only things that makes this possible is that the navy needs to start spreading its wings. If we had not been able to bring these long-term plans and strategies to these days, I would like to say clearly that we would not even be able to talk about these issues. The mill cannot turn with carried water. Neither on the infrastructure side nor on the staff side...

I did a comparasion Land force vs Air force vs Navy , with other countries and what i said is correct for now .
Lets take navies of UK , France , S kore , Japan , which aslo they are in top militaries same as Turkiye .
Compare their navies with Turkish one . and look results .
Turkish Land forces easy can compare with those countries forces , aslo air force bit navy ? LoL
They have 20 destroyers 10 000 ton , We have rusty gabya trash gifted from America .
In this way i did comparasion ...
Even italy that have peace and love with everyone on planet , has bigger modern navy

 

[dBSPL]

I did a comparasion Land force vs Air force vs Navy , with other countries and what i said is correct for now .
Lets take navies of UK , France , S kore , Japan , which aslo they are in top militaries same as Turkiye .
Compare their navies with Turkish one . and look results .
Turkish Land forces easy can compare with those countries forces , aslo air force bit navy ? LoL
They have 20 destroyers 10 000 ton , We have rusty gabya trash gifted from America .
In this way i did comparasion ...
Even italy that have peace and love with everyone on planet , has bigger modern navy

Does it mean that country X, which builds a brand new navy with a budget of 30-40 billion from various supplier western countries, has reached the same capacity as the supplier country with the same number of frigates or surface main combat platforms?

What I am underlining is the tradition and capacity of a navy that can produce its own doctrines, and an industrial infrastructure that can independently offer tailor-made systems to the navy without being of political bargaining of something. This is the important part, this is what makes a navy a rising power. From this point on, it is only a matter of time and will.

Italy has the best naval construction infrastructure in your Mediterranean region. I am not just talking about the main hull construction, but a very valuable ecosystem from the machinery to the navionics and weaponary. They have the best coast guard fleet in the Mediterranean and they have a combat fleet that will form a formidable task force, largely through domestic industrial capabilities. We are just now reaching this capacity. Aside with all Italy's industrial strength, buying F-35Bs from the US for their newly built carrier is as easy as buying bread from the grocery store.

Turkiye will become an important naval power if it can launch the TF-2000, not when it gets the type-45 or something. This is my point of view. And let's not create a false impression that the navy was willing to take this risk. We had problems even in the procurement of the main gun for these ships lets aside many strategic systems and weapons. Why was the Istanbul frigate delayed so long? You know the answer to that question very well, and in fact the answer to the question you are asking here is there. The Turkish navy is a rising naval power because it is about to achieve what very, very few countries on a similar scale in the world have achieved.

 

[Baklava Consumer]

Does anybody know if Milden will have VLS?