TR Navy Naval Programs

[Sanchez]

Looks like Barbaros MLU finally started for the second ship already. Salihreis is the lucky one.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1994043036247183553

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1993975985553780792

Here is the latest design with 2 band Flat Planar Arrays (ECM suite) and 2 more EA antennas.

I'm hoping 25mm guns will also be able to engage aerial targets. Also, any word on the drone launchers they mentioned before?

 

[Anmdt]

I'm hoping 25mm guns will also be able to engage aerial targets. Also, any word on the drone launchers they mentioned before?

Possibly not and nothing heard of that UAV launcher yet, nor USV interoperatibility. They have given up modular space that possibly could have been utilized for UUV/USV integration. That leaves us with stern-ramp currently.
I would very much like to see two more 35 mm ( single barrel gökdeniz ) on each sides for addes protection.

For new they have seem to focus a comprehensive EW suite covering all the bands except of the low-frequency (V/UHF) bands. Earlier designs had V/UHF ED, later omitted.

 

[boredaf]

Possibly not and nothing heard of that UAV launcher yet, nor USV interoperatibility. They have given up modular space that possibly could have been utilized for UUV/USV integration. That leaves us with stern-ramp currently.
I would very much like to see two more 35 mm ( single barrel gökdeniz ) on each sides for addes protection.

That's a bit of a shame, really, it was a brilliant idea to have loitering munitions on hand. And, if 25mm can't reliably (or at all) engage aerial targets then I agree that a couple of either 35 or 30 mm guns on each side is necessary. Asymmetric threats are becoming even more of an issue with each passing day, I hope we'll be ready.

 

[Tuncay]

The second Reis-class submarine TCG Hızırreis was delivered to the Turkish Naval Forces today.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1994059228319719770

 

[Pokemonte13]

TurDef at ITK: DPO, TF-2000 and MUGEM Part II: TF-2000 | TURDEF

TurDef presents TF-2000 Air Defence Destroyer, designed to provide area air defence for future MUGEM and TCG Anadolu within Turkish Navy strike-group operations

turdef.com

According to turdef there are plans for Tf2000 light under consideration.
My guesses is after 4 TF2000 a price optimised frigate/destroyer will come with a reduced systems instead cafrad only the multi function radar would remain and for long range use one single Rotating radar

 

[Yasar_TR]

TurDef at ITK: DPO, TF-2000 and MUGEM Part II: TF-2000 | TURDEF

TurDef presents TF-2000 Air Defence Destroyer, designed to provide area air defence for future MUGEM and TCG Anadolu within Turkish Navy strike-group operations

turdef.com

According to turdef there are plans for Tf2000 light under consideration.
My guesses is after 4 TF2000 a price optimised frigate/destroyer will come with a reduced systems instead cafrad only the multi function radar would remain and for long range use one single Rotating radar

I was never supportive of TF2000 destroyers, for the simple fact that they were far too expensive and too big for what we need (They would be great target practice pieces in Sea of Islands). Also the loss of any of these would be devastating.
But having started building one, it is only feasible to build a sister ship to keep it company and then concentrate our efforts on the building of at least 8 more Gabya sized -4500-5000ton- frigates. The above article’s last paragraph makes a good point of it. So I thought of bringing it out in to black and white here.

The TF-2000 is not the sole future combat ship design that is currently under consideration by the Design Project Office. Research and development efforts are ongoing into the designation of an intermediate class, which has provisionally been referred to as TF-2000 Flight II. The platforms have been designed to embody the modern equivalent of the Gabya-Class Frigates (Ex. Oliver Hazard Perry Class) that serve in the Turkish Navy, in terms of their mission capacity, weapon systems, long-range mission capabilities, and sensor infrastructure. The objective is to develop general-purpose frigates that can support task forces and aircraft carrier groups when necessary, while ensuring cost-effectiveness in both initial acquisition and operational expenditures. These vessels are designed to exhibit high levels of manoeuvrability. It is currently planned that the platforms, which will be 120-130 metres long with a displacement of 4,000 to 5,000 tonnes, will reach a speed of 27-28 knots with diesel propulsion. The weapon and sensor load will be similar to that of the TF-2000s, according to the shared information. The fact that the Gabya-Class Frigates have reached the end of their economic service life, coupled with the Turkish Naval Forces' increasing operational periods throughout the year and the Istif Class vessels reaching the end of their growth margin, means that a modern multi-purpose frigate is becoming an increasingly pressing requirement for the Turkish Naval Forces. The rapid execution of this step, in conjunction with the objective of establishing a comparable infrastructure with TF-2000, can be regarded as a pivotal vision in the context of accelerating processes and minimising initial acquisition and operating expenses.

 

[fushkee]

I think after TF-2000, we will need a class between TF-2000 and Istif class which it will attack/saturate the deep land areas to dominate the enemy soils.

 

[Anmdt]

TurDef at ITK: DPO, TF-2000 and MUGEM Part II: TF-2000 | TURDEF

TurDef presents TF-2000 Air Defence Destroyer, designed to provide area air defence for future MUGEM and TCG Anadolu within Turkish Navy strike-group operations

turdef.com

According to turdef there are plans for Tf2000 light under consideration.
My guesses is after 4 TF2000 a price optimised frigate/destroyer will come with a reduced systems instead cafrad only the multi function radar would remain and for long range use one single Rotating radar

I have read the the article but last part seemed a little inconsistent;
A TF2000 Flight II to Replace Gabya (check)
Meant to be lighter in tonnage and equipment (check)
Sensor and weapon load will be similar to the TF2000 (???)

TF-2000's current design both can be scaled to 9500+ tonnes with the introduction of Multi-Mission Bay (which is necessary for comprehensive USV integration as TN envisions) , and scaled to 6500-7000 tonnes by removing 64 VLS, leaving space for +16 for later integration. We are speaking of a General Purpose Frigate that is bound to sail with Aircraft Carrier in long term, thus i don't think Navy will be sacrificing unlimited operations capability at Sea State 5 which is to be succeeded with TF-2000, which is opting for a 4000 tonnes / 120 meters design may not be feasible in long term. And i don't quite believe TN will be going for anything lesser of Type-31.

Remember how OPV has started as "FFNBW, easy to procure and fast to built" and ended up with fully-equipped warships with VLS accommodation. We can not miss the chance of uncertainty, where we don't know what lies ahead in future for USV/UAV or counter-unmanned systems integrations.

 

[Anmdt]

accelerating processes and minimising initial acquisition and operating expenses.

(If Told by the Navy themselves) ; Told by a someone who once had an accelerated process and faster acquisition by the OPV project and turned that into a fully-fledged warship procurement going through a re-design process.

I was never supportive of TF2000 destroyers, for the simple fact that they were far too expensive and too big for what we need (They would be great target practice pieces in Sea of Islands). Also the loss of any of these would be devastating.
But having started building one, it is only feasible to build a sister ship to keep it company and then concentrate our efforts on the building of at least 8 more Gabya sized -4500-5000ton- frigates. The above article’s last paragraph makes a good point of it. So I thought of bringing it out in to black and white here.

Back in time, where we were transitioning from massive battleships to tin-can warships we have missed some features, also with the comfort of having no conflicts; sea-keeping, endurance, logistical autonomy, the first is later attained in 90s and deemed as crucial. A warship of greater sizes comes with this benefits - specifically logistical autonomy (180 days for TF-2000 is a nice feature), plus the future is not clear on how the counter-unmanned platforms system will be incorporated. Red-Sea incidents has once proven a longer-stay at sea and unlimited operations at high sea states matters. I still don't believe TN will be settling with a 4-5k design, at this point, or designing a warship altogether from scratch. They will stretch TF-2000 as far as possible, also considering that they are highly congested with Aircraft Carrier studies, leaving not much time, or man-power for studying on GP Frigate. Best opportunity here is to use TF-2000's design to scale it down to Type-31 tonnage, or up to proper Destroyer sizes.

 

[Sanchez]

Sensor and weapon load will be similar to the TF2000 (???)

Our own Constellation program

 

[Pokemonte13]

My guess would be that it would have a similar sensor loadout to this but on a bigger ship. The design would be similar to European design with one mfr and one LRR

 

[Zafer]

A big claim of a lesser destroyer is to achieve 28 kt speed with diesel alone, this is turbine speed without the turbine. A 125m 5000 ton compact destroyer using the latest and greatest of our technology can be made fullly inhouse and in dozens if required. The diesels are not there yet but can be made with the latest of our experience.

 

[Pokemonte13]

ASFAT 3600 Making a Comeback a bit wider and longer and and a different sensor suit and it’s perfect

 

[IC3M@N FX]

When considering the strategic orientation of the Turkish Navy for the next 15–20 years, it becomes clear why larger combat ships are absolutely essential. The areas of operation will no longer be limited to the Black Sea and the Aegean Sea, but will increasingly include the Indian Ocean and, in the future, the Pacific Ocean.

Platforms with a displacement of 4,000–5,000 tonnes are only of limited suitability for such distances and long-term deep-sea operations. Range, endurance, sensor redundancy, hangar capacity, armament and, above all, seaworthiness in heavy seas only really make sense from around 6,000 tonnes upwards. This is precisely why the Turkish Navy is consistently focusing its procurement planning on larger units – with programmes such as TF-2000 the new MİLGEM-G+ class, MUGEM and the massive expansion of LHD/LPD capacities.

Anything that is intended to operate permanently below the 6,000-tonne class is only suitable for global operations to a limited extent and remains restricted to regional scenarios.

We need to look ahead to the next 15 to 20 years... The US already has its sights set on Asia, as raw materials are becoming increasingly scarce, and it wants to use every means at its disposal to displace China's sphere of influence there.
If Turkey wants to get involved in Africa and Asia, it must be able to compete at this level, albeit on a smaller scale, of course.

 

[Pokemonte13]

. This is precisely why the Turkish Navy is consistently focusing its procurement planning on larger units – with programmes such as TF-2000, TF-10000, the new MİLGEM-G class, MUGEM and the massive expansion of LHD/LPD capacities.

What’s tf10000 and Milgem G?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Sry i mean TF 2000, and Milgem G is Istanbul/Istif Class Ships Fregatte.

İSTİF CLASS (G-Milgem)

NUMBER NAME LAUNCHED COMMISSIONED F-515 İSTANBUL 2023 F-516 İZMİR F-517 İZMİT F-518 İÇEL Characteristics: Displacement: 3000 tons, full load Dimensions: 113,20 x 14.4 x 4.35 metres Speed, Range: 15…

devrimyaylali.com

 

[Pokemonte13]

Any thoughts about the price tag for tf2000? My guess would between 800-1000 million dollars

 

[Pokemonte13]

So my guess would be for the next 10-15 years the navy will introduce/have based on my realistic expectation and news
8 Istif
4 TF2000
4-6 TF2000 Flight 2 (Medium frigate) still rough speculation
4 Modernized Meko 200TN track 2 (barbaros)
8-10 Hisar ADKG configuration still unknown (light/medium/heavy) probably split between ships from just a light opv to a light frigate
6-10 TTHB Numbers still uncertain
1-2 LHD still some uncertainty if we'll get a second LHD
1 Mügem
(2 LPD) need is there but still a rough guess(my wish)
6 Reis
6 Milden Maybe more but 6 is secure
1 Nükden maybe towards the end of 2038
plus a dozen other support vessels from small to large

 

[TR_123456]

So my guess would be for the next 10-15 years the navy will introduce/have based on my realistic expectation and news
8 Istif
4 TF2000
4-6 TF2000 Flight 2 (Medium frigate) still rough speculation
4 Modernized Meko 200TN track 2 (barbaros)
8-10 Hisar ADKG configuration still unknown (light/medium/heavy) probably split between ships from just a light opv to a light frigate
6-10 TTHB Numbers still uncertain
1-2 LHD still some uncertainty if we'll get a second LHD
1 Mügem
(2 LPD) need is there but still a rough guess(my wish)
6 Reis
6 Milden Maybe more but 6 is secure
1 Nükden maybe towards the end of 2038
plus a dozen other support vessels from small to large

That would be a blue water navy.