TR Politics

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-Sinan-

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Erdogan cult based on 4 pillars.

1-) There were economic crisis before us. (2001 Economic crisis)
2-) There were dirty relations between State and Mafia before us (Susurluk incident)
3-) There were no state before us (referring to 99 quake)
4-) Coalitions are bad. (The last coalition was bad, esspecially because of Ecevits old age)


These were all bad memories for Turkish people and in a way, they were trauma. So, every time Erdogan touched these issues on his propaganda, it would trigger the trauma. This went on until recent years. However, all these pillars destroyed.

1-) Going through the worse economic crisis of republic.
2-) Sedatflix, Alaatin Çakıcı's relationship with Bahçeli, International mafia establishing hub in Istanbul.
3-) Last quake, again made people saying "where is the state". State sold tents, sold aids to 3rd parties, soldiers kept in barracks, police stole aids, it was worse than 99 quake.
3-) He is on a coalition with MHP and BBP. Instead of coalition, he is saying alliance.


All these pillars gone.

Also, personally i think, inaugurations will make a negative effect. What's the point of flaunting TOGG with a price tag of more than 1 million liras. While people are just strugling to pay their bills.
 
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what

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Akp's electoral strategy is based on inaugurations and ceremonies (many of which will be related to the defense industry) starting at the end of March and lasting until the beginning of May.

This has been obvious for a while now. All the rollouts etc have been crafted just in time for election for maximum exploitation.

Add in the conspiracy theories, that even some in here believe, that the defence industry will no longer be supported, for example. Which is of course BS.
 

Lool

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This has been obvious for a while now. All the rollouts etc have been crafted just in time for election for maximum exploitation.

Add in the conspiracy theories, that even some in here believe, that the defence industry will no longer be supported, for example. Which is of course BS.
I agree that the milestones in the defence industry have been carefully crafted to be just before the elections to gain votes especially with the TFX that was supposed to roll out this month only to get sidelined to the next few months for election votes; however, it is no conspiracy theory that the defence industry will be affected. Baykar, last year, stated in a TV interview that all of the success in the Turkish defence industry can be easily and immediately eliminated by a change in the political will; this is accompanied by the fact that the HDP which is instrumental for the CHP's rule post and pre-election has been criticising Baykar non-stop and promised that if tneir coalition is in power then they will crush Baykar

This was immediately followed by a member of the filthy table of the 6 criticising Baykar of favouritism and that he will come and set them straight; looool, as if Boeing and Lockheed Martin arent getting favouritism to the point of influencing foreign policy

You hate Erdogan and want him replaced, that is fine! But to actually delude yourself into believing that the defense industry will not be affected is pure insanity mate. Their promises of "special budgets" to military programs when the govt is giving free blank checks to such industries as well as the fact that they mentioned the Hurjet as one of those projects even though the Hurjet (for anyone with 70+IQ) probably knows that the project itself was initiated by TAI with their own money and the govt wasnt even invopved. This just proves how much the CHP doesnt give a fq about the defence industry nor even plans to sustain it

I still remember last year when many members stated that the CHP is flaunting KK candidacy in order to protect the true candidates, Imamoglu and Yavas, from being attacked by the AKP and having their popularity diminished in order to win the election. I swear you ppl made me feel as if the CHP is some sort of master strategist like Sun Tzu but it turned out to be some1 playing candy crush with 0 IQ and as predicted from a mile's away by any none CHP supporter and even the 0 IQ AKPsupporter that KK became the candidate

By this point, it amazes me how many ppl are suddenly just sidelining KK's past failures, mistakes, and incompetence as if they never happened and are now portraying him as the new messiah and saviour of Turkey. Or as the Western media is saying, Turkish "Ghandi" loool

By this point, Iam 100% sure that the only person who truly understands Turkish politics in this forum is @Ryder when he stated that Turkish politics is like football teams with their supporters doing their best to legitimise their team's actions no matter how bad or corrupt it is
 

Ryder

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The way how Vecihi Hurkus was treated dont be surprised on why there is conspiracy theories about how the defence industry could be dismantled.

Conspiracy theories are so rife in Turkiye because of the national consciousness that came with collapse of the Ottoman Empire how the Turkish republic came out of its ashes at a huge cost.

Independance is valued a lot hence why theories that threaten it become rife among all circles in the Turkish republic.
 

Ryder

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I agree that the milestones in the defence industry have been carefully crafted to be just before the elections to gain votes especially with the TFX that was supposed to roll out this month only to get sidelined to the next few months for election votes; however, it is no conspiracy theory that the defence industry will be affected. Baykar, last year, stated in a TV interview that all of the success in the Turkish defence industry can be easily and immediately eliminated by a change in the political will; this is accompanied by the fact that the HDP which is instrumental for the CHP's rule post and pre-election has been criticising Baykar non-stop and promised that if tneir coalition is in power then they will crush Baykar

This was immediately followed by a member of the filthy table of the 6 criticising Baykar of favouritism and that he will come and set them straight; looool, as if Boeing and Lockheed Martin arent getting favouritism to the point of influencing foreign policy

You hate Erdogan and want him replaced, that is fine! But to actually delude yourself into believing that the defense industry will not be affected is pure insanity mate. Their promises of "special budgets" to military programs when the govt is giving free blank checks to such industries as well as the fact that they mentioned the Hurjet as one of those projects even though the Hurjet (for anyone with 70+IQ) probably knows that the project itself was initiated by TAI with their own money and the govt wasnt even invopved. This just proves how much the CHP doesnt give a fq about the defence industry nor even plans to sustain it

I still remember last year when many members stated that the CHP is flaunting KK candidacy in order to protect the true candidates, Imamoglu and Yavas, from being attacked by the AKP and having their popularity diminished in order to win the election. I swear you ppl made me feel as if the CHP is some sort of master strategist like Sun Tzu but it turned out to be some1 playing candy crush with 0 IQ and as predicted from a mile's away by any none CHP supporter and even the 0 IQ AKPsupporter that KK became the candidate

By this point, it amazes me how many ppl are suddenly just sidelining KK's past failures, mistakes, and incompetence as if they never happened and are now portraying him as the new messiah and saviour of Turkey. Or as the Western media is saying, Turkish "Ghandi" loool

By this point, Iam 100% sure that the only person who truly understands Turkish politics in this forum is @Ryder when he stated that Turkish politics is like football teams with their supporters doing their best to legitimise their team's actions no matter how bad or corrupt it is

Look at the way people talk about Selcuk Bayraktar.

They never mention his name they always call him the Damat.

Nobody gives a shit about what he has achieved the only thing they call him is the damat.

This is really insulting.

Then pro akp fools are like selcuk bayraktar owes his success to Erdogan while chp fools just call him the damat or a nobody before erdogan. They hate him because his aligned with Erdogan.

Welcome to Turkiye where people only give a shit about your ideology and your political leanings.
 

Afif

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Wow, there is lot of serious discussions going on. But given the topic of defence industry has already came up, I am curious to know how avarage Turkish people feels about it.

Given, last decade was an astonishing success for the industry, is public also feels equally enthusiastic about it? How high is general awareness on the subject matter?

Do they prioritize it on other national achievements? Does success in defence industry overshadow other problems?
@dBSPL @what et al.
 

Mis_TR_Like

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Wow, there is lot of serious discussions going on. But given the topic of defence industry has already came up, I am curious to know how avarage Turkish people feels about it.

Given, last decade was an astonishing success for the industry, is public also feels equally enthusiastic about it? How high is general awareness on the subject matter?

Do they prioritize it on other national achievements? Does success in defence industry overshadow other problems?
@dBSPL @what et al.

Well consider this. The r/Turkey subreddit is known to be very liberal. However pretty much everyone there supports the defence industry and is satisfied with the progress made. A lot of users say that the defence industry is one of the only things that is going well in the country.
 

Ryder

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Wow, there is lot of serious discussions going on. But given the topic of defence industry has already came up, I am curious to know how avarage Turkish people feels about it.

Given, last decade was an astonishing success for the industry, is public also feels equally enthusiastic about it? How high is general awareness on the subject matter?

Do they prioritize it on other national achievements? Does success in defence industry overshadow other problems?
@dBSPL @what et al.

I think all the political sides in Turkiye have to support the defence industry because not only does it contribute to independance but also creates jobs and contributes to growth.
 

dBSPL

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Wow, there is lot of serious discussions going on. But given the topic of defence industry has already came up, I am curious to know how avarage Turkish people feels about it.

Given, last decade was an astonishing success for the industry, is public also feels equally enthusiastic about it? How high is general awareness on the subject matter?

Do they prioritize it on other national achievements? Does success in defence industry overshadow other problems?
@dBSPL @what et al.
No, it doesn't overshadow it. But actually there is no simple yes or no answer to this question. Let me explain a little bit what I meant by unique in my message above:

Of course, the country has very urgent and burning problems. Foremost among them is the CB's incredible printing of money to suppress the dollar. This has caused a vicious circle of inflation. Let me give you a concrete example, the movement of the dollar was slowed down after the implementation of currency hedged deposits and dollar quotas for exporters, that is, to some extent the market was intervened by the state, but even in this picture, the PPI reached 100% on an annual basis. There has been a false spring in the stock market due to the devaluation, but overall the problem is very big. The current export boom seems to have reached its limit.

Interest rates are falling, but banks and financial institutions that benefit from this in practice are increasing their profitability, but the picture is very, very different in retail loans. And, the households indebtedness ratio continues to break records.

Also, the consumer inflation in the country is overshadowed because inflation basket is similar to that of European countries. The real inflation is in food prices and housing costs, not in cultural and some specific service areas, or some consumption items that are not consumed by low-income people. The upper income group and the lower income group feel inflation at different rates, and what the lower income group feels is almost hyperinflation.

Since January 2022 (the currency attack and the subsequent rapid escalation of inflation), the country's most important problem has been the economy. The CB, in the direct intervention of the presidency, has chosen to prioritize protecting growth over directly suppressing inflation with the interest rate policies. This has started to create an extraordinary hole in the treasury. In practice, the cost has been much larger than if interest rates had to rise. The CB prioritized suppressing the dollar. The main instrument here is the guaranteeing the exchange rate difference in deposit interest rates.In practice, what you have in your deposit account is dollars/euros/gold that earn interest in TL. This would also explain why the TCB is one of the world's largest gold buyers.

*

Anyway, I don't want to go into the details of the issue, the economic problem in the country is already known to everyone who is interested in TR politics. What I really want to write about is the difference in priorities across income groups/political segments within society.

What I have written above describes the situation of two main segments. The first is especially the lower income group. The other is the productive segment that has emerged in the last few decades outside the traditionally known industrialist segment. Their nickname is the Anatolian tigers.

Now the question is, excluding some of the elites within the AKP, what are the main segments from which the AKP received tens of millions of votes? The low-educated and therefore low-skilled working class in the country are traditionally 'overwhelmingly' AKP voters. In the last 30 years, conservative pious people who came to the city from the villages, regained the right to study at university, and regained the right to work in the public sector were mostly Akp's vote depots. Retired people who lived through the aftermath of the coup (1980), but mostly the great catastrophe of the 1990s (1993-1999) and are now between the ages of 55-80 were also mostly Akp voters.

The country's intellectual and academic circles, cultural and artistic circles, as well as those who have already been earning money over money since the 90s are 'overwhelmingly' an extension of the opposition. Professional chambers, the media, trade/worker unions have been the areas where Akp has fought much more visibly, especially after 2013-14, purged many of them and tried to take control with the power of the state. And it has succeeded, especially in the media.

*

What we know is that in the country, especially the lower income group and the artisans and craftsmen above it, and to some extent the new generation of industrialists with limited financial resources, constitute the segments most affected by the economic crisis in the country. These segments are also Akp's main constituency in an income/status-based classification that is free of ideological motives.

So why do these people continue to vote for this party when this economic crisis, deepened by the AKP's flawed monetary policies, is hitting its own voters the hardest?

Look, even the polls conducted at the Chp headquarters still show Akp at 30%, and Akp has not even started its election campaign yet. Let me tell you something even more ironic: Most of these Akp's lost votes are not going to the opposition, they are mostly going to Mhp, the main supporter of the government that keeps it in power. Already today, many of the Akp elites of the 2003-2011 period are in the opposition ranks. Nevertheless, their parties are currently polling between 1% and 2%. This ideological transformation is being ignored, and this is the main issue I criticize the opposition for.

The popular political understanding in the opposition draws an analogy between 1999-2003 (that process actually started in 1993) and 2016-2023 and sees the same conditions as having occurred. This is a very logical explanation for the opposition and I think they have a lot of points. But this is not the case for the pro-government voters. Anyway, majority of post-2016 voters are not the Akp voters of 2003. There are more than 10 million people who would still vote for Erdoğan even if they had no bread to put on their table.

Some may insult these people by calling them sheep, idiots or any other adjectives. But you cannot weaken Erdoğan's power without trying to understand why these people have this attitude when they feel the problems in the country most closely. I have made the post too long, but I think I have given the main idea. I will continue to write about this topic when I have time.
 
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Sanchez

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Turkish military industrial complex is now at a point where it's now an exporter and makes sweet cash money. Some big projects will be in the drain as economy is in the gutter and with the earthquake, some big name ones will be looked at on the books like the dealings of BMC during Sancak era, but I don't think much will change. No one single person with an agenda will put a stop to the MIC, just like Ilhan Omar is uncapable in US. We need to rise above the fear politics.

It was the greens in Germany that gave a 100 billion and more to the German army. World is now different and "the chair" changes people.
 

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Look at the way people talk about Selcuk Bayraktar.

They never mention his name they always call him the Damat.

Nobody gives a shit about what he has achieved the only thing they call him is the damat.

This is really insulting.

Then pro akp fools are like selcuk bayraktar owes his success to Erdogan while chp fools just call him the damat or a nobody before erdogan. They hate him because his aligned with Erdogan.

Welcome to Turkiye where people only give a shit about your ideology and your political leanings.
It's because akpians always using him as propaganda as if akp made him or whole defence industry. So that's why it gained antipathy.
 

Lool

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Thank god Turkey has the CHP
Who cares about the recent bombing that occured during imamoglu's tenure; as long as the AKP did it before, we can do it again
Let Turkey suffer another decade of continuous terrorist bombings in Istanbul and Ankara so that the CHP can do the same mistakes that the AKP did. Truly, as if they are a group of 4 years old saying they want a chocolate because another 4 years old got it too

Translation
Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu will visit all parties. This includes HDP. Date is unclear. We will ask all voters to vote. What is halal for the AK Party cannot be haram for the CHP. — Ozgur Ozel | CHP

 
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Sanchez

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Talking with HDP won't bring attacks, that's not how any of it works. If a possible CHP gov talks with PKK behind people's and parliament's backs in say Stockholm, then you will have a point.
 

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This has been obvious for a while now. All the rollouts etc have been crafted just in time for election for maximum exploitation.

Add in the conspiracy theories, that even some in here believe, that the defence industry will no longer be supported, for example. Which is of course BS.

Nobody gives a shit who will take credit RTE or KK .

everyone want to see for example the TF-X project rollout

it a win win situation
 

TheInsider

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The defense industry won't cease to exist but it will be affected.
Don't expect any cancellations on big projects like MMU, Altay etc.
SSB runs ~800 projects there will be a big budget cut. New gov. can cut 100-200 projects you have never heard of and it will affect nothing on the eye of the average voter and can claim they are giving full support to the defense industry.
Expect a big change first in the high administration and after that mid-level officials of the foundation (TSKGV) companies. (not necessarily a bad thing, a new gov has the right to bring in new people)
Expect Baykar to get fewer contracts from the state if nothing at all. Expect export license cancellations to some countries Baykar sells drones to. TAI, Vestel, etc will get more contracts.
Expect reluctance from foundation companies to work with Baykar. They will act more reserved towards Baykar.
Expect more weapon deals with foreign countries/companies.
 

TheInsider

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There are two different elections
1)Presidential election
2) Parliamentary election

AKP is guaranteed to lose number 2 and has a slight disadvantage in number 1. Presidential elections will depend on how skillfully Kılıçdaroğlu runs his campaign. If he can utilize the popularity of his sidekicks( İmamoğlu and Yavaş) and can transfer their popularity as votes for him, he will win. If he can't Erdogan will edge him in the last meters.

AKP is getting ready for a very aggressive campaign. AKP will make use of the holy month of Ramadan. Don't be surprised if the first prototype of MMU conducts a brief test flight.
 

what

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Nobody gives a shit who will take credit RTE or KK .

everyone want to see for example the TF-X project rollout

it a win win situation

Credit goes to the companies and the engineers involved.
No one is going to stop Turkish companies from bringing in currency from abroad, and neither will anyone be stopped from developing new products.


As @Sanchez said, it is an established industry that is here to stay. No need to listen to fearmongers.
There will be a corruption sweep that is badly needed in the entire country. Including the defence industry. Baykar will get a lot less PR and permanent free media exposure and that BMC's (illegal? For the courts to decide) transfer to Ethem Sancak will be for sure investigated.
 

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The defense industry won't cease to exist but it will be affected.
Don't expect any cancellations on big projects like MMU, Altay etc.
SSB runs ~800 projects there will be a big budget cut. New gov. can cut 100-200 projects you have never heard of and it will affect nothing on the eye of the average voter and can claim they are giving full support to the defense industry.
Expect a big change first in the high administration and after that mid-level officials of the foundation (TSKGV) companies. (not necessarily a bad thing, a new gov has the right to bring in new people)
Expect Baykar to get fewer contracts from the state if nothing at all. Expect export license cancellations to some countries Baykar sells drones to. TAI, Vestel, etc will get more contracts.
Expect reluctance from foundation companies to work with Baykar. They will act more reserved towards Baykar.
Expect more weapon deals with foreign countries/companies.
I truly pity Baykar; they did what none could do ever
They developed beasts like Kizilelma in a short time frame that it felt akin to magic only for them to be slowly destroyed by the fools who are gonna lead

A Turkish friend of mine, told me 5 years ago that Turks are under a curse. Whenever they try to rise, something comes up and they fall to the rock-bottom and repeat a never-ending cycle of suffering and madnees. I thought that he was just paranoid only to see it happening right infront of my eyes

The next 2 month will be truly interesting. Lets see what happens and it feels just weird that Erdogan is keeping his silence till this date even when the momentum is in favour of KK
 

Lool

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There are two different elections
1)Presidential election
2) Parliamentary election

AKP is guaranteed to lose number 2 and has a slight disadvantage in number 1. Presidential elections will depend on how skillfully Kılıçdaroğlu runs his campaign. If he can utilize the popularity of his sidekicks( İmamoğlu and Yavaş) and can transfer their popularity as votes for him, he will win. If he can't Erdogan will edge him in the last meters.

AKP is getting ready for a very aggressive campaign. AKP will make use of the holy month of Ramadan. Don't be surprised if the first prototype of MMU conducts a brief test flight.
This is just my 2 cents but if Erdogan won the elections but lost the majority in the parliament, then all will be lost
The other members will co-operate against the AKP and try to stop all AKP actions in the political spectrum; thus, limiting Erdogan's hands a lot

What made Erdogan truly strong isnt only him being the president but also the fact that his alliance controlled the parliament to give him the legal backing he needs
 

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I truly pity Baykar; they did what none could do ever
They developed beasts like Kizilelma in a short time frame that it felt akin to magic only for them to be slowly destroyed by the fools who are gonna lead
You keep bringing this on every occasion. I’m not an Erdoğan supporter but I can tell you that any deliberate attempt to destroy this gem of a company by any government would make me feel miserable just like you, just like any average Turk. It is now a source of national pride.
Even the Turks, in general, not that stupid.
Incompetence, on the other hand, is something else and it happens and is not genetically coded to a certain political view or party.
Like the others keep telling, it remains to be seen.

A Turkish friend of mine, told me 5 years ago that Turks are under a curse. Whenever they try to rise, something comes up and they fall to the rock-bottom and repeat a never-ending cycle of suffering and madnees. I thought that he was just paranoid only to see it happening right infront of my eyes
Ah, now, this is totally a monumental national BS.

According to some, in Quran Turks are mentioned to be the supposed “cursed people” (Lanetli Kavim) and it was foretold that they will “get to neither grow nor diminish but exist in suffering” (something that effect).
If your friend had delved a little bit more he could’ve seen easily that there’s no curse but our wrongs. Take the last earthquake for instance. Geologists (some are world class, btw) together with engineers warned the governments since 1999 and we simply didn’t take heed! We all saw how things turned out. Just as they predicted and warned.
This “curse”, a myth if you will, is nothing but a solace where Turks seek some comfort, to create an innocent air surrounding them where they can shelter when they hit hardship. Plus, it gives them a plethora of defiance and pride as they keep on keeping on.
It’s us, the people, my friend. Nothing else.
 

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