TR Politics

[Combat-Master]

These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

I would say it's an effort to modernise an archaic arab religion and Turkify it to our own values.

 

[Ecderha]

These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

You have you point, but True is when you know "WHY".
You have to listen both sides perspectives to understand.

arabs say "Islam" is written on arabic language and it is forbidden to read/write or speak in different language.
For them it is mandatory to stay that way and if you look history ppl just obey that arabic wish, so convenient!

Next thing for history is that ppl from other culture and language MUST go to arab world (Saudi Arabia for Sunni or IRAN for Shia) in order to learn the language and Kuran. Result is that most of those ppl change, they become mentally ill and become part of religion group which will affect and drive their lives.
When they come back to home those ppl start to apply force on ppl by saying you should do that, you should say that, you should dress like that, it is forbidden to eat that, you should learn true language etc........
Some of them even are not imams they are pseudo imams, talking pseudo shit in arabic language.


Other side of perspectives. Expect Islam other religions does not have this mandatory language issue. So anybody which want to go in deep it should have able to read understand the book. Giving them a CHANCE to be part of it.
And remove some corruption/bad paths which will lead to RELY on Pseudo religion Person to apply prey or saying for you by "speak on language you don't understand".
Most of ppl does not know that is it that person really read/speak religion text or he just "curse you or talk non sense"

For me personally I agree what Turkler did translated the Kuran in Turkish language in order to make ppl free and understand. So by reading or speaking Kuran it should be ok. But for arabs or imams it is SIN for them which is wrong but as i said it is arabic wish which they twisted till this days

 

[Ryder]

Couple weeks ago I attended a funeral of a dear friends father at Cem Evi / Cultural center in London I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that they're no longer using Arabic scripture and have translated everything into Turkish with the person heading the proceedings being female.

Seriously Alevis are a confusing bunch.

Are they Muslims?
A religious cultural group
Or are they their own religion like the Druze.

I always get different answers its hard to pin point what they really follow while at the same tim I also met Alevis who were athiest.

 

[Ryder]

You have you point, but True is when you know "WHY".
You have to listen both sides perspectives to understand.

arabs say "Islam" is written on arabic language and it is forbidden to read/write or speak in different language.
For them it is mandatory to stay that way and if you look history ppl just obey that arabic wish, so convenient!

Next thing fro history is that ppl from other culture and language MUST go to arab world (Saudi Arabia for Sunni or IRAN for Shia) in order to learn the language and Kuran. Result is that most of those ppl change, they become mentally ill and become part of religion group which will affect and drive their lives.
When they come back to home those ppl start to apply force on ppl by saying you should do that, you should say that, you should dress like that, it is forbidden to eat that, you should learn true language etc........
Some of them even are not imams they are pseudo imams, talking pseudo shit in arabic language.


Other side of perspectives. Expect Islam other religions does not have this mandatory language issue. So anybody which want to go in deep it should have able to read understand the book. Giving changes to be part of it and not relay on pseudo religion person to "speak on language you don't understand". Most of ppl does not know that is it that person really read/speak religion text or he just "curse you or talk non sense"

For me personally I agree what Turkler did translated the Kuran in Turkish language in order to make ppl free and understand. So by reading or speaking Kuran it should be ok. But for arabs or imams it is SIN for them which is wrong but as i said it is arabic wish which they twisted till this days

Because the Quran was revealed in Arabic and stayed like that. Yes there are translations to various languages.

Arabic has always been the core of Islam just like how Latin is the core of Catholicism, Greek for Orthodox Christians while Hebrew for the Jews. Many might use their own native languages but does not change that certain languages have always been a core to the religion.

Classical Language of Arabic is really different to todays arabic which has different dialects and prounciations.

Hence why the Quran sounds so different to a modern average arabic speaker. In fact Classical Arabic is really superior to modern day Arabic.

 

[CAN_TR]

People call it "secularization" that Alevis use Turkish but i call it holding on national identity rather than swifting towards the Arabic sphere of influence.

By calling that Kuran has to be written in Arabic, praying language should be Arabic etc. etc. you are enforcing Arab culture on other ethnicities, you can't find that amongst Christians, Buddist, Jews etc.

Kuran in Turkey should only teached in Turkish, we are on a point that some religious leaning people freak out when you say Tanri instead of Allah. But Allah actually "il ilah" = "the god" is the same as Tanri which means "god" in the Turkish language. A Christian Arab also refers to God as Allah, logical because it's Arabic. What's the purpose of reading the Kuran in Arabic when you don't understand anything? You either have to learn Arabic or you use the Turkish language.

And demonizing Alevis all the time is nothing but seperation and traitorous.

 

[Bogeyman]

You have you point, but True is when you know "WHY".
You have to listen both sides perspectives to understand.

arabs say "Islam" is written on arabic language and it is forbidden to read/write or speak in different language.
For them it is mandatory to stay that way and if you look history ppl just obey that arabic wish, so convenient!

Next thing for history is that ppl from other culture and language MUST go to arab world (Saudi Arabia for Sunni or IRAN for Shia) in order to learn the language and Kuran. Result is that most of those ppl change, they become mentally ill and become part of religion group which will affect and drive their lives.
When they come back to home those ppl start to apply force on ppl by saying you should do that, you should say that, you should dress like that, it is forbidden to eat that, you should learn true language etc........
Some of them even are not imams they are pseudo imams, talking pseudo shit in arabic language.


Other side of perspectives. Expect Islam other religions does not have this mandatory language issue. So anybody which want to go in deep it should have able to read understand the book. Giving them a CHANCE to be part of it.
And remove some corruption/bad paths which will lead to RELY on Pseudo religion Person to apply prey or saying for you by "speak on language you don't understand".
Most of ppl does not know that is it that person really read/speak religion text or he just "curse you or talk non sense"

For me personally I agree what Turkler did translated the Kuran in Turkish language in order to make ppl free and understand. So by reading or speaking Kuran it should be ok. But for arabs or imams it is SIN for them which is wrong but as i said it is arabic wish which they twisted till this days

You can't translate the book the way you want. Because it changes meaning. So people are trying to learn Arabic grammar to understand the Qur'an. Religion is a business of faith. No one's forcing anyone to believe anything. Everyone is free. But some people think the nation can decide what to believe or not. This is madness.

 

[Bogeyman]

People call it "secularization" that Alevis use Turkish but i call it holding on national identity rather than swifting towards the Arabic sphere of influence.

By calling that Kuran has to be written in Arabic, praying language should be Arabic etc. etc. you are enforcing Arab culture on other ethnicities, you can't find that amongst Christians, Buddist, Jews etc.

Kuran in Turkey should only teached in Turkish, we are on a point that some religious leaning people freak out when you say Tanri instead of Allah. But Allah actually "il ilah" = "the god" is the same as Tanri which means "god" in the Turkish language. A Christian Arab also refers to God as Allah, logical because it's Arabic. What's the purpose of reading the Kuran in Arabic when you don't understand anything? You either have to learn Arabic or you use the Turkish language.

And demonizing Alevis all the time is nothing but seperation and traitorous.

From your point of view, academia and universities are forcing us to use English. Then we'll say we don't use English. Some things are universal. The existence of religions is universal. You can't interfere with him the way you want.

 

[Xenon54]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387539856348389378

Public transport sights from Istanbul
"Everything will be very good"
Yes, it is obvious how beautiful everything is.
We owe a lot to the Ekrem for making Istanbul live this ridiculous view.

Lol goverment makes restrictions and this guy blames Imamoglu.
The AK trolls are doing a good work seeing the comments.

These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

Why do you insist on reading a script that you dont understand a word of it?
Dont get me wrong, i read whole Quran in arabic back in the days but thinking back it was pure waste of time actually.

 

[Ecderha]

You can't translate the book the way you want. Because it changes meaning. So people are trying to learn Arabic grammar to understand the Qur'an. Religion is a business of faith. No one's forcing anyone to believe anything. Everyone is free. But some people think the nation can decide what to believe or not. This is madness.

"You can't translate the book the way you want. Because it changes meaning" !

Meaning IS and WILL be Irrelevant/Issue ALL TIME.
Because it is a FACT that ppl which wrote the book back then many years ago were NOT ENABLE to UNDERSTAND ALLAH words.
That is why they used OWN interpretation ( which lead to "may be it is not correct word" ) to write the words on the script.
EVEN more!! All those writing were wrote from different ppl in different years and at end all those scripts were added to Kuran book.

I am trying to say that back then ppl were DUMB!!

They received knowledge which THEY can't UNDERSTAND so it is FACT that those ppl wrote "words on script and late someone add it to Kuran in the way that they CAN't understand"


---->"So people are trying to learn Arabic grammar to understand the Qur'an."<---!?
YOU CAN'T and you will never WILL.
Why?
-Different culture
-Different language
-Different understanding of LIVE
-Different understanding of words.

Many years passed,
Many ppl discussed above FACTS.
The only solution which is RIGHT is those "ppl with Known knowledge in that specific Country had to got together and translate the book"

Then you can USE "Everyone is free". Otherwise it is pure LIE


"But some people think the nation can decide what to believe or not"
Nation are ppl it is a FACT
Each person decide OWN LIVE
Each person decide what to believe
YOU CAN'T DECIDE OTHER PERSON DECISION.

 

[CAN_TR]

From your point of view, academia and universities are forcing us to use English. Then we'll say we don't use English. Some things are universal. The existence of religions is universal. You can't interfere with him the way you want.

Not necessarily.
It's not forbidden to use Turkish as the language for religion.

These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

But you interfere in their religious practice with all the "conspiracy theory" you claim here. Alevis always used the Turkish language, Alevism is a Turkic interpretation of Islam in the first place. Early Ottomans and other Beyliks were no different everything changed during Sultan Selim I reign and the influence he got from Idris Bitlisi. Thousands of Alevi Qizilbash Turks were killed and Sunni Kurds settled down. Centuries later here we are, millions of seperatist minded "citizen" in the South East. This ethnic-cultural differences actually is used more by foreign Intelligence agencies than Turkish language in Cem Evi.

 

[Tornadoss]

These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

Ahh again "dıj güjler". I don't really understand why you guys so against using your own language for religion. So the value diminished when you use Turkish. Arabic is not a holy languages. It's better if people understand what the arabic inscriptions means.

 

[Bogeyman]

Lol goverment makes restrictions and this guy blames Imamoglu.
The AK trolls are doing a good work seeing the comments.

Everyone knows that Ekrem did not increase bus services despite the epidemic, but rather reduced them. Try something else to curl it, please.

Why do you insist on reading a script that you dont understand a word of it?
Dont get me wrong, i read whole Quran in arabic back in the days but thinking back it was pure waste of time actually.

Grammar experts who learn grammar to understand the Qur'an prepare exegesis. You may not understand much about translation. But if you were serious about what you said, you would surely read his exegesis. If a single source does not seem reliable to you, you can also obtain exegesis from different sources.
Today, why are you using auxiliary books to understand a math book prepared by a professor with pure technique, because its language is heavy. Is difficult to understand. Instead of basing the basics of the book on the way it was written there, you can't create a foundation according to your own wishes. This brings corruption. It makes religion open to human intervention.

 

[Zafer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387507342963523584

AKP and MHP, as expected, vote no on a bill submitted by the IP for financial aid for closed buisnesses.

Can't give the common man who works hard for his food and family one cent gotta keep all of it for our yandas firms and buddies.

Same people forgave taxes for big firms in the middle of an pandemic and then put the burden on the common man by hicking up their electricity bill. IN THE MIDDLE OF AN PANDEMIC AND ECONOMIC CRISIS.

2 years, enjoy it while it lasts.

The government is already doing what is possible.

 

[Bogeyman]

Ahh again "dıj güjler". I don't really understand why you guys so against using your own language for religion. So the value diminished when you use Turkish. Arabic is not a holy languages. It's better if people understand what the arabic inscriptions means.

FETO was also "dıj güjler". But you ignore that they are still "dıj güjler". Turkish translation and Turkish readings bring with them comments that are not in the Qur'an.
It says in the Qur'an today that alcohol drinking is a sin. If you try to falsify it, someone might write in the Qur'an tomorrow that alcohol drinking is a useful thing. Or it can create nonsense such as "interfaith dialogue" by creating customs that have no place in Islam. All this made FETO. And we all see the result. So be careful what you wish for.

 

[Zafer]

Because the Quran was revealed in Arabic and stayed like that. Yes there are translations to various languages.

Arabic has always been the core of Islam just like how Latin is the core of Catholicism, Greek for Orthodox Christians while Hebrew for the Jews. Many might use their own native languages but does not change that certain languages have always been a core to the religion.

Classical Language of Arabic is really different to todays arabic which has different dialects and prounciations.

Hence why the Quran sounds so different to a modern average arabic speaker. In fact Classical Arabic is really superior to modern day Arabic.

Quran is worded in a poetic manner rather than in prose. This gives it a recital value. Even for non Arabs it is poetic and has cadence. For us Turks reciting Quran in Turkish opens the doors to recite the word in the 72.5 languages that make up the nation, which divides and weakens the nation. While keeping it original connects us with the rest of the Islamic world.

 

[Ryder]

Not necessarily.
It's not forbidden to use Turkish as the language for religion.


But you interfere in their religious practice with all the "conspiracy theory" you claim here. Alevis always used the Turkish language, Alevism is a Turkic interpretation of Islam in the first place. Early Ottomans and other Beyliks were no different everything changed during Sultan Selim I reign and the influence he got from Idris Bitlisi. Thousands of Alevi Qizilbash Turks were killed and Sunni Kurds settled down. Centuries later here we are, millions of seperatist minded "citizen" in the South East. This ethnic-cultural differences actually is used more by foreign Intelligence agencies than Turkish language in Cem Evi.

Seljuks and the Ottomans were sunnis influenced by Sufism.

Alevism is not a Turkic religion but a spin off of Shia Islam that incorporated other beliefs with Prophet Muhammed's cousin Ali being the identity of the religion.

Qizilbash got what was deserved when you rebel against the state you deserve all the consequences. Sunni Kurds were useful against the Safavid onslaught. Now their use by date has passed hence the headaches.

If Yavuz Sultan Selim did what was right ay the time of you are complaining about what he did you should complain about the Dersim rebellion. Didnt Atatutk deal with a alot rebellions that got crushed with force.

By the way it seems when the Ottomans crush rebellions done by Turks everybody whines about it when its other Turkic Empires who do it its basically crickets.

Yavuz Sultan Selim even fought Sunnis took huge chunks of the Middle East that was majority Sunni he also fought the Sunni Mamluk Sultanate.

Look at the rebellions name Shakulu basically saying im Shah Ismails prophet.

Shah Ismail executed the Uzbek Khan with utmost sadism its disppointing that Yavuz Sultan Selim did not do the same to him. Executing a Turkic Khan and using his skull as a drinking cup.

 

[Ryder]

People call it "secularization" that Alevis use Turkish but i call it holding on national identity rather than swifting towards the Arabic sphere of influence.

By calling that Kuran has to be written in Arabic, praying language should be Arabic etc. etc. you are enforcing Arab culture on other ethnicities, you can't find that amongst Christians, Buddist, Jews etc.

Kuran in Turkey should only teached in Turkish, we are on a point that some religious leaning people freak out when you say Tanri instead of Allah. But Allah actually "il ilah" = "the god" is the same as Tanri which means "god" in the Turkish language. A Christian Arab also refers to God as Allah, logical because it's Arabic. What's the purpose of reading the Kuran in Arabic when you don't understand anything? You either have to learn Arabic or you use the Turkish language.

And demonizing Alevis all the time is nothing but seperation and traitorous.

Thats why a lot of Turks have taken up on learning Arabic. There is nothing wrong in learning another language our forefathers spoke a lot of languages.

By the way there is 300 million Arabic speakers.

If speaking Arabic and learning it makes us Arab that means im a Germanic Anglo Saxon because I can speak English.

 

[Ryder]

People call it "secularization" that Alevis use Turkish but i call it holding on national identity rather than swifting towards the Arabic sphere of influence.

By calling that Kuran has to be written in Arabic, praying language should be Arabic etc. etc. you are enforcing Arab culture on other ethnicities, you can't find that amongst Christians, Buddist, Jews etc.

Kuran in Turkey should only teached in Turkish, we are on a point that some religious leaning people freak out when you say Tanri instead of Allah. But Allah actually "il ilah" = "the god" is the same as Tanri which means "god" in the Turkish language. A Christian Arab also refers to God as Allah, logical because it's Arabic. What's the purpose of reading the Kuran in Arabic when you don't understand anything? You either have to learn Arabic or you use the Turkish language.

And demonizing Alevis all the time is nothing but seperation and traitorous.

Alevism literally means followers of Ali.

You do realise there is even Kurdish Alevis.

Its just funny how Alevis call Sunni Turks as Arabs when they also follow an Arab man. Who is Ali Ibn Talib??

 

[Xenon54]

Everyone knows that Ekrem did not increase bus services despite the epidemic, but rather reduced them. Try something else to curl it, please.

And why would he do that? Please back up your claim, it makes no sense.

Everyone knows that Ekrem did not increase bus services despite the epidemic, but rather reduced them. Try something else to curl it, please.



Grammar experts who learn grammar to understand the Qur'an prepare exegesis. You may not understand much about translation. But if you were serious about what you said, you would surely read his exegesis. If a single source does not seem reliable to you, you can also obtain exegesis from different sources.
Today, why are you using auxiliary books to understand a math book prepared by a professor with pure technique, because its language is heavy. Is difficult to understand. Instead of basing the basics of the book on the way it was written there, you can't create a foundation according to your own wishes. This brings corruption. It makes religion open to human intervention.

So you prefer to read something without understanding a word of it but call a translation that give a pretty good overall intepretation as not accurate?
How are you supposed to follow a guideline when you dont understand language of the instructions?
Again zero sense in what you say.

 

[Xenon54]

FETO was also "dıj güjler". But you ignore that they are still "dıj güjler". Turkish translation and Turkish readings bring with them comments that are not in the Qur'an.
It says in the Qur'an today that alcohol drinking is a sin. If you try to falsify it, someone might write in the Qur'an tomorrow that alcohol drinking is a useful thing. Or it can create nonsense such as "interfaith dialogue" by creating customs that have no place in Islam. All this made FETO. And we all see the result. So be careful what you wish for.

Feto was pretty much a inside job, their leader being in exile because he feared the countrys justice doesnt change that fact.
Sure CIA is using them as a tool but overall feto is a organisation founded in Turkey and nourished mostly by current goverment.