TR Politics

[Manomed]

Bars because he dont have the same ideology as you? Is nationalism a fake feeling? Does being patriot not mean that you wish the welness of your nation, and the development. Or maybe you will deny all the good he done just because he dont share the same secular toughts? I believe balance is important, so that you remain honest.

Not because for his ideology for corruption and stealing he replaced every place with his relatives that doesn't even fit for the job corruption might be okay for arabs but not for us This has gotten out of hands the amount of corruption his goverment has

 

[mulj]

Turkey needs new blood in it's politics, economic and social life... Enough with being a one party state dependent on one person and his family and clique and their wishes.

People did not tell that for nothing: Politicians are like baby diapers, they should be changed often for the same reason- they get full of shit.

I don't care who you talk about but more than 20 years in politics is enough. Retire already, go and enjoy your last years with your grandkids. But the problem is that when you get too deep in the shit you turn paranoid and power hungry.

Akp and chp are both spent force altough akp has more versatile political approach so probably they will last little bit longer idenpendently or trough branch offs.
Healthy coalitional blocks are much needed due easier control of policies and more efficiemt governing.

 

[CAN_TR]

When it comes to the spread of Islam you often see muslim haters using the term «with the sword». Islam didnt always spread by «the sword». I have not read and tried to learn about how the turks got islam, but i know that many central asians and persian emperors embraces islam after the mongol invasion. Even one khanate of the mongols turned to become muslims, and fight against the mongols.

Well if stating facts is making you a Muslim hater than we should stop discussing from now on, i will not take those accusations quietly.

Islam maybe didn't spread everywhere with force, i didn't even mentioned such thing btw., but to Central Asia unfortunately quote "with the sword".

 

[Sinan]

@Knowledgeseeker

I think you are not Turkish. You can't differentiate between an Islamist and Islam. Nobody here has a problem with Islam but Islamists.

Where in Quran or in Hadiths, says you can steal, you can take another Muslims rights, you can force your religion on others, you can bribe and take bribes.

 

[Deliorman]

Bars because he dont have the same ideology as you? Is nationalism a fake feeling? Does being patriot not mean that you wish the welness of your nation, and the development. Or maybe you will deny all the good he done just because he dont share the same secular toughts? I believe balance is important, so that you remain honest.

Should be sent behind bars because of:

1. Widespread corruption- we didn't forget the shoe boxes full of money, the phone recordings of Erdogan and his son, the off shore bank accounts, the huge projects given to 5 companies close to AKP, the dozens of NGOs connected to Erdogan's family members etc and etc

2. All the thousands of Turkish soldiers and policemen that lost their lives thanks to Erdogan's peace policies with PKK. We didn't forget his Megri Megri songs in Diyarbakir, the "Music note" he wanted to give to the Americans, about his laughter on an AKP congress the same night 36 Turkish soldiers were killed in Idlib, their dances and songs on the opening of the Third Bosphorus bridge a day after close to 20 Turkish policemen were killed in a bomb attack etc and etc.

3. For the thousands of Turkish workers and citizens who lost their lives in all kinds of accidents that could be prevented if AKP actually cares about the safety of it's citizens. We didn't forget about Soma and about countless of other such accidents.

If I have to count all the bad stuff that happened in Turkey in these only last 5-6 years I will have to write for hours. But you have absolutely no idea... you only watch TRT world or what someone write on Facebook.

ps I don't talk about Erdogan only... he is just the top of the iceberg that is the whole system he has built and ruled for all these years. Corruption in Turkey is on levels that even I can't imagine and I live in damn Bulgaria which is the most corrupt and hopeless country in the EU.

 

[Sinan]

@Knowledgeseeker

It really reflects bad on Muslims when they support people who steal and break laws. There is much increase on Atheism lately in Turkey.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

I think you are not Turkish. You can't differentiate between an Islamist and Islam. Nobody here has a problem with Islam but Islamists.

Where in Quran or in Hadiths, says you can steal, you can take another Muslims rights, you can force your religion on others, you can bribe and take bribes.

Nothing about being turkish. Some people here dont wish turkey to be a muslim nation. They want a secular country, with ataturks spirit. However in Islam yes offcourse you cant steal or take bribes..

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

@Knowledgeseeker

It really reflects bad on Muslims when they support people who steal and break laws. There is much increase on Atheism lately in Turkey.

I dont know any muslim who support thiefes to be honest. Yh its known that turkey has alot of atheists.

 

[CAN_TR]

Nothing about being turkish. Some people here dont wish turkey to be a muslim nation. They want a secular country, with ataturks spirit. However in Islam yes offcourse you cant steal or take bribes..

Why did you quote me and copy and paste Sinans comment?

???

I think you are not Turkish. You can't differentiate between an Islamist and Islam. Nobody here has a problem with Islam but Islamists.

Where in Quran or in Hadiths, says you can steal, you can take another Muslims rights, you can force your religion on others, you can bribe and take bribes.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Why did you quote me and copy and paste Sinans comment?

???

Everything got mixed.

 

[Test7]

@Manomed
Turkey is a muslim country either you like it or not. To say that you dont want turkey to remain loyal to their muslim roots and empires is alright. You have your right to have your own opinion. Islam is not a arab religion. I think erdogan dont mind if you are are a proud turk, but offcourse he would want the turkish nation to remain steafast to their root. We all know the history of how ataturk literally cracked down on islam in the society. I guess for you he was not «dictator» but erdogan seems more of a dictator because he dont see the same value as you..

Turkish nation to remain steafast to their root?

In those roots, there are beliefs other than Islam. You would be wrong when you limit the roots of Turks to Islam only, do not ignore this. For example, Gok Tengri, shamanism religions were the most common religion among the pre-Islamic Turkic groups. Does this not mean rejecting Turk's pre-Islamic roots? Then, will Metehan not be counted as Turkish roots? The establishment date of the army he founded is written on the coat of arms of the Turkish army. You should research the roots well

We all know the history of how ataturk literally cracked down on islam in the society.

Please pay attention to your statements about Ataturk. We Turks are very sensitive about our leaders. It doesn't matter what century they lived in.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Turkish nation to remain steafast to their root?

In those roots, there are beliefs other than Islam. You would be wrong when you limit the roots of Turks to Islam only, do not ignore this. For example, Gok Tengri, shamanism religions were the most common religion among the pre-Islamic Turkic groups. Does this not mean rejecting Turk's pre-Islamic roots? Then, will Metehan not be counted as Turkish roots? The establishment date of the army he founded is written on the coat of arms of the Turkish army. You should research the roots well

Please pay attention to your statements about Ataturk. We Turks are very sensitive about our leaders. It doesn't matter what century they lived in.

Im aware of the pre-islamic turkish groups. You made valid points. Thats why i commented on one of the quotes that im saying muslim roots because of the last hundreds of years of islamic history. And turkey is majority muslim country as far as i know. Do you know how many who actually still practise tengrism etc? No thats why i didnt curse ataturk. I just said he had secular ideology, and opposed islam. For a muslim it might be wrong, but for a secular person then it would be just normal i guess. However cheers to you! One of the few that really comes with good points

 

[Xenon54]

@Manomed
Turkey is a muslim country either you like it or not. To say that you dont want turkey to remain loyal to their muslim roots and empires is alright. You have your right to have your own opinion. Islam is not a arab religion. I think erdogan dont mind if you are are a proud turk, but offcourse he would want the turkish nation to remain steafast to their root. We all know the history of how ataturk literally cracked down on islam in the society. I guess for you he was not «dictator» but erdogan seems more of a dictator because he dont see the same value as you..

The same old islamists propaganda again...
Atatürk didnt crack down on Islam, no, all he did was ordering translation of Quran into Turkish so people understand what they read, he separated religion and politics, and he is the founder of Ministry of religious affairs, the Ministry thats paying expenses of 80k Mosques in Turkey and the salaries of countless clerics, imams and theological institutions.
Now that the BS is cleared, lets post some poll trends.

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[Knowledgeseeker]

The same old islamists propaganda again...
Atatürk didnt crack down on Islam, no, all he did was ordering translation of Quran into Turkish so people understand what they read, he separated religion and politics, and he is the founder of Ministry of religious affairs, the Ministry thats paying expenses of 80k Mosques in Turkey and the salaries of countless clerics, imams and theological institutions.
Now that the BS is cleared, lets post some poll trends.

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Only his own actions and statement speak for itself. Did he not say he wish the all the religions to be at the bottom of the sea?its a reason why people here say «religion of arabs» thats ataturks own words. He seperated religion from state affairs. He wanted a secular turkey. Its a reason why turkey changed so much from the last 100 years.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Knowledgeseeker

I think you are not Turkish. You can't differentiate between an Islamist and Islam. Nobody here has a problem with Islam but Islamists.

Where in Quran or in Hadiths, says you can steal, you can take another Muslims rights, you can force your religion on others, you can bribe and take bribes.

Conflation between Islam (religion) and Islamism (religion expanding to + controlling the political realm) is being conflated in this thread yet again.....with some making opposing Islamism as opposing to Islam itself (when they are two different things).

Some usual suspects are also hitting likes for this conflation and pro-islamist propaganda. Very typical as Ataturk upsets them eternally.

Ataturk took bold step in limiting religion to personal faith and personal realm. A political state should have no business in it. He saw the backwardness and danger of Islamism (and it would have been so for any religion).

A state should be concerned with things the state is there for (not religion which will fall to personal subjective interpretation and usurp state power inevitably). Islamist-based countries (and some turn to theocracies even) inevitably create personal strife among Muslims as question of what/how/who is Muslim is deployed for political use within it.

This was largely nipped in the bud in Turkey's (republic) case thanks to Ataturk....buying it a large crucial scope to resist Islamism in the future. I call this a bulwark in earlier reply I made somewhere.

This is triggering some here (not surprising)...given Turkey's progress since Ataturk time is based a large degree on the basis of being secular republic (something rare in Muslim world).

 

[Tonyukuk]

The more I see non-Turks supporting AKP, the more I realise that AKP needs to go. Who are you to impose your religion and way of life on the Turkish nation? Most of you Islamists celebrated when Taliban took over Afghanistan. Okay then, go live there. You wouldn't do it for a million dollars. Oh and you wouldn't want to live in Iran either would you, it's no fun right??? You all want to come to Turkey, even though all you do is complain about secularism... Oh but you wouldn't want to work here, just spend the money you made in the west...

Stop barking about your wet dream of Islamism toppling secularism in Turkey. We will never stoop down to the level of your nations.

 

[AWP]

He seperated religion from state affairs. He wanted a secular turkey. Its a reason why turkey changed so much from the last 100 years.

well to be honest , its wasn't the main why turkey became better in the last 100 years . religion isn't the main factor in making a country great or not at least in the recent centuries . I truly believe is Islam was implemented 100 % without out of contest understanding then yah it's fine , but it wont happen .

if abolish the religion and implement secularism is the right call , then why some secular countries still living in dark ages ? eastern EU , SE asia and some many as an example . at the same time countries that implement religion like arab countries and latin america are still in deep shi* .

Turkey achieved this far because of the well of it's people . for example after the 1974 cyprus conflict and the west ban of arms to turkey , turkey started it's own defense manufacturing strategy that we now see it's results . At the same time look at the arabs during the 73 arab-israel war , the arabs was united against the west and gulf countries ban the oil sale to the US resulting in mas shortage in the us that almost crippled the entire american economy . but after the war the arabs throw them self to the US lap and instead of keeping the unity they didn't strengthen it at all + even after 50 they can't manufacture shi* , while the US kept supporting dictatorship regimes to keep the arab under it's control and to amke sure israel is secure .

 

[LegionnairE]

if abolish the religion and implement secularism is the right call , then why some secular countries still living in dark ages ? eastern EU , SE asia and some many as an example

Eastern Europe... dark ages... lol
Yes you are right, Poland is much worse than Afghanistan or Somalia. You know, islamic utopias

I know there is no forum rule against speaking nonsense but please get a grip people.

 

[AWP]

Afghanistan

yah lets give an example like Afghanistan that was torn apart by the soviet politicly during the 60s and 70s and militarily during the soviet-afgan war .. and ya lets not to forget the US involvement by creating Taliban and the 2001 invasion that archived nothing after 20 years .

lets give an example of an islamic country that never saw stability in its last 60 years , but yah as you said ( there is no forum rule against speaking nonsense ) so it's ok .

 

[LegionnairE]

yah lets give an example like Afghanistan that was torn apart by the soviet politicly during the 60s and 70s and militarily during the soviet-afgan war .. and ya lets not to forget the US involvement by creating Taliban and the 2001 invasion that archived nothing after 20 years .

lets give an example of an islamic country that never saw stability in its last 60 years , but yah as you said ( there is no forum rule against speaking nonsense ) so it's ok .

Is it not surprising at all that US would support taliban and not some godless secularists?

It's not surprising to you that US would support Gülenists in Turkey and France would support ayatullahs in Iran?

It's almost as if they know these islamist groups are useful to them.

Fun fact: During the Turkish war of Independence, Britain used Şehyülislams to write fatwas against Atatürk and the TBMM(Grand National Assembly) and they dropped flyers from British planes over cities. So yes Islamists are useful pawns to them. Always has been.