TR Propulsion Systems

TheInsider

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Heat resistance is important but resistance to creep and inertia forces is equally important if not more. One company can have a superalloy that can withstand 1500 C but is only good for 10000 RPM while the other company can have a superalloy that can withstand 1300 C but can do 25000 RPM(assuming every other parameter is the same like diameter and MTBF hours etc). The second one will perform better than the first one.
 

Bogeyman 

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"Breaking" export success in the Turkish defense industry

TUSAŞ Engine Industry Inc. (TEI) General Manager Mahmut Akşit made statements to the AA correspondent regarding the national military turbodiesel engines that the company has started to mass produce and its ongoing development projects.

Reminding that they made the first mass production delivery of PD170 engines at the beginning of 2020, Akşit said that they have continued production since then.
Expressing that they made the first flight with ANKA in December 2018 and that they have been flying with AKSUNGUR for 1 year, Akşit said, "We are in the final stage for the PD170 to enter the inventory with AKSUNGUR. At the end of the tests, it will become AKSUNGUR's mass production engine before the end of this year. The first AKSUNGUR from now on." "In one of its last flights, it came to the skies of Eskişehir and flew low over the friends who contributed to the engine design. There is no problem with the maturity of the PD170 series." said.

Stating that AKSUNGUR's national engine integration will be completed after ANKA with these studies, Akşit emphasized that they have been flying with Bayraktar TB3 for about 1.5 months and that the platform and engine have performed successfully. Explaining that they carried out tests at an altitude of 20 thousand feet during a severe storm in Istanbul, Akşit noted that they passed the test successfully under difficult conditions.

Record breaking engine

Akşit stated that they will continue to work to raise the engine to an altitude of 45 thousand feet after it enters the inventory and said, "We have flown above 30 thousand feet many times. This is a record. As far as we know, there is no piston engine in this class in the world that can reach this altitude. We will increase this altitude to 45 thousand feet through tests. He "No one has ever climbed to this altitude." he said.

Mahmut Akşit said that they have flown hundreds of hours with ANKA, AKSUNGUR and Bayraktar TB3 so far and that they have not experienced any problems that would jeopardize flight safety, and this is a great success for an engine that is on the market for the first time.

Best in class, suitors are in line

Expressing that PD170 is also very popular abroad, Akşit gave the following information:

"We have received orders for the engine from 5 countries. We have not approved all of them. The permits for one of them have been completed and the order has been finalized. The processes for the other 4 countries are continuing. We believe that it will have a significant place abroad. Our engine is currently the one that burns the least in its class, can reach the highest altitude and "It is the engine that produces the most power at altitude. When you put all of these together, it provides a serious advantage to the platform in which it is used. It would not be correct to make a statement about the country where the sales took place. We have started the production of the first engine sold abroad, and the delivery date will be within the next year."

Pointing out that this will be a first for Turkey, Akşit said, "Turkey will have exported a high-tech aviation engine for the first time in its history. Some of these countries are truly technological countries." said.

"We did it, let's see what they will announce."

Reminding that the work on the engine family in this series started with the PD155, which was urgently requested for ANKA, Akşit said that with the achievements here, the PD170, almost entirely domestically produced, emerged. Mahmut Akşit spoke as follows about the development of the engine family:

"When we introduced 170 horsepower, 1-2 years later, European and American manufacturers announced 170 horsepower diesels in the same class. We are not going to stop there, we developed the 225 horsepower version and determined its code as 222, dedicated to Eskişehir. Between the power of the two engines There is a serious difference. It is an engine that fits in the same place, but has a difference of 3-5 kilograms. It is very important that it fits in the same place, because the power needs of customers in aviation are constantly increasing. When the existing engines reach the end of their life, they want to replace them with more powerful ones. We developed it by taking this into consideration, and on the other hand, we also compete in the competition. There is an aspect of leaving it behind. When we made 170, they announced 170. We made 225, let's see when and what they will announce.

We continue to work on those with higher power. Now it is the era of electric vehicles. The transition to electric vehicles did not happen suddenly. Hybrid cars have been around for a very long time, now we are seeing the transition to fully electric. Likewise, we will see hybrid electric vehicles in aviation. We are also working on similar technologies. Let me just say that. We produced serious power from our hybrid electric vehicle coupled with the PD170 series. "We are developing new technology, working on solutions that are more powerful and fit in the same place."

Akşit stated that they developed the PD180, which is 8-10 kilograms lighter than the PD170, cheaper, has slightly less altitude capability, and can deliver up to 180 horsepower during takeoff, for the needs of ANKA, and added: "It is a well-known fact in the world of bikers to derive families from the same nucleus." "We aim to increase PD155, PD170, PD180, PD225 from the PD170 family to over 300." he said.

 

Yasar_TR

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Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.
 

Kartal1

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Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.
Looks like strategic cooperation between Turkiye and the UK is moving on all fronts. I can't wait to see the fruits of this cooperation in the face of the KAAN project and especially TF35K.
 

neosinan

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RR name has been around since forever but We couldn't agree on a deal.

In July of This year, Turkish Ceo is appointed and Within 6 months We solve our disagreement about TFX engine and Another Turkish company confirms huge engine deal. I am not saying there is a connection but I can how it might look like that.
 

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Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.

With how our companies have been disappointed with Ukrainian engines and suppliers, in terms of documentation, customer support, maintenance, spares, quality, integration and sometimes unavailable/unresponsive to emails, UK based companies could be a life saver for some major projects until the indigenous projects mature to be deployed in the field.

We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
 

boredaf

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We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
They have quite a lot of engines for civilian helicopters but I don't know if they have any with military qualifications, although given that they are RR, they certainly do.

And they do have some prop engines but do we really need them for Akıncı? Or maybe Hürkuş-2?
 

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We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
The only helicopter engine they have that can power Atak 2 is the engine that powers Merlin helicopter; The RR - Turbomeca engine. It is now being produced by Safran Helicopter Engines who bought the engine rights from RR. It’s Aneto version develops upto 3000HP. But it is produced by a “French” Company!
They also produced the RR GEM engine for Lynx helicopters developing 1000-1100HP.

RR M250 is a 450HP turboprop engine
RR 500 is another turboprop with 470 HP
These are starter engines for Akinci.

RR used to produce from 1200 HP up to 3000 + HP “Dart” turboprops until late 80s. The design of the original dart engine goes back to 1946. As the market became too competitive they changed direction. RR bought Allison in US producing the engines for the Osprey Tilt Rotor.

Off the shelf, there are no engines they can give us in turboprops or turbo shafts. But like what we are expecting from them in the case of TF35K, they can help build an engine of 3000HP level. Also a 1000HP to 1500HP level turboprop.
But this means we have to find manpower and funds, to allocate for these new projects.
 
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Can you see the likeness between the two engines in these two pictures?
We were expecting TF6000 to be fired.
TEI is advertising TF10000.
Now that would be a very nice New Year present to the nation if it were true.
 

Baklava Consumer

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It looks like the Indians ditched Rolls-Royce and Safran for engine development.

Rolls Royce offered them IP rights, technology transfer, and Indian production.
But they went along with GE.

Maybe they'll feel the pressure and offer us a similar deal because they seem to be having some financial difficulties.

Although it could be a pipe dream.
 

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Why do you western loving Turks think we still need RR or GE when a top scientist from GE main office, our current TEI CEO repeatedly tells us TEI can make any size and thrust engine including latest blisk version of F110?

Not to mention TRmotor and Kale Aero just in aero engines category that makes 3 firms with turbofan engine designs on schedule. I can understand sharing the cost of engine deveopment with a rich or more experienced partner but if only those partners are trustworthy. British , Americans, West, time and again proved that they lie, cheat and if necessary even murder to not let us be technologically self sufficient. Thats an enemy, not a friend. Partnering with them on anything at alll sounds like total insanity to me. If you don't believe me, go ask Zelensky, their latest "partner". They promised Ukraine NATO as well as EU. Poor guy was so excited. But we all knew western promises mean nothing, didn't we?
 

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It looks like the Indians ditched Rolls-Royce and Safran for engine development.

RR largely yes (unless something springs a surprise later).

But Safran has very strong + close engine development ongoing with India.

They are very interested in defeating the Americans for the AMCA powerplant.

It may be difficult given economy of scale by then regd F414, but we will have to see, since Safran are intelligently investing in capacities well upstream (to a military turbofan) and getting those all sorted out and proven reliably with India....rather than just sitting idle now and try front loading everything later.
 

boredaf

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Why do you western loving Turks think we still need RR or GE when a top scientist from GE main office, our current TEI CEO repeatedly tells us TEI can make any size and thrust engine including latest blisk version of F110?

Not to mention TRmotor and Kale Aero just in aero engines category that makes 3 firms with turbofan engine designs on schedule. I can understand sharing the cost of engine deveopment with a rich or more experienced partner but if only those partners are trustworthy. British , Americans, West, time and again proved that they lie, cheat and if necessary even murder to not let us be technologically self sufficient. Thats an enemy, not a friend. Partnering with them on anything at alll sounds like total insanity to me. If you don't believe me, go ask Zelensky, their latest "partner". They promised Ukraine NATO as well as EU. Poor guy was so excited. But we all knew western promises mean nothing, didn't we?
An official from a company saying they can do it, doesn't mean they can do it in time, or just as good. TF-6000 should've had its first ignition before 2023 ends according to multiple statements from TEI officials yet it didn't happen. And Kale created a joint venture with Rolls Royce to offer an engine for Kaan, not by itself. TRMotor doesn't even have an engine, just power units. While appreciate our companies and engineers, this bravado when it comes to engine development doesn't help us at all.

It would be insanity to reject a fair offer (if it is a fair offer) of partnership from RR because while we are taking the first steps in regards to engines, they have been running marathons for decades. We are literally trying to do what they have done decades ago, their help would be invaluable to quicken the process and get an engine that we can produce ourselves in time.

Blind hatred of "the West" is dangerous and illogical, do you know who are our biggest trade partners? The West that you hate so much, Russia is the only country that breaks top 10 that's outside the Western powers. We are intertwined with the West economically and militarily, and that is not a bad thing. Why would you want to be like "the East"? Whose the shining example there, Russia that is run by mafia or China which is a dictatorship that puts Muslims in camps?

And Ukraine would've already fallen without Western help, that is not even a speculation, it is a fact. Only thing that kept Ukraine in this war has been Western weapons and munitions. And ours of course. Nobody promised Zelensky NATO before the war ends, NATO literally cannot accept members that are in active conflicts. And it has become a candidate for EU membership, again, they can't just say "you're in mate" and be done with it. You're twisting facts to fit your narrative.

It would be monumentally stupid to refuse a fair deal from RR to help us with the engine, just because they are a Western company. Jet engine development is one of the most challenging engineering feats out there and if it can be done quicker with their help than so be it.
 

Zafer

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Have some faith in Turkish engineering. We don't want to share our achievements with foreigners because their name will shadow our achievenments like we didn't achieve a thing. I would keep them off of our projects at all costs.
 

IC3M@N FX

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The important thing is that full ownership of the engine belongs entirely to Turkey.
And that all components in the engine can easily be manufactured in-house without being tied to a supplier from abroad.
Without that, you don't even need to sit down at the table.
The second condition should be that as soon as the partner agrees to comply with the basic conditions, but later withdraws for any reason or for political reasons, a claim for damages in the billions has to be paid as security.
This would prevent any foreign politicians from trying to sabotage the project and put pressure on company XY to end the partnership overnight.
This would cause extreme financial damage to the country concerned, and no politician would dare to do this as soon as the country's own money was at stake.
This is not a kindergarten project either right or not at all, if a company declares itself to provide help from abroad and receives money and synergies in the form of know-how from the Turkish state and its engineers for its own future products, then it must also bear full responsibility for this.
In parallel, TEI should continue to develop its own engine as a plan B, even if it takes longer.
 

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