TR Propulsion Systems

[Fairon]

18 months.

I mean, in this case, it is mostly caused by EASA rather than us, but yeah, it still made me laugh. I really hate EASA for this. Nobran herifler.

Also we really need to do something about the TS3000 regarding this. If I remember correctly, the TS1400 has basically been ready for at least a year, yet it is still waiting for civilian certification. Considering they are hoping to obtain certification next year, that means there will be roughly a three-year gap during which we cannot use the engine.

For the TS1400, this might make sense because Gökbey has significant potential in the civilian market (at least TUSAŞ think so. Although Gökbey also faces strong competition.) However, for the TS3000, we may want to accelerate the process.

There has been a lot of discussion about using the engine as soon as it is ready, without waiting for civilian certification, since we do not actually need it for military use. I think we should really consider this option.

 

[Zafer]

Using the TS1400 engine domestically on a civilian helicopter would only require SHGM certification if they actually had the process.

 

[Sanchez]

Did he visit any booth? I couldn't find related footage.

Of course.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2041578754376339483

 

[Ahlatshah]

Tolga Özbek interviews Mr Mahmut Akşit with many details

Prof. Dr. Mahmut Akşit at 08.44: We have reached 5910 lb at test with TF6000, more than currently used imported ones. That is not even our final configuration engine, we will reach higher than 5910. End of this year or beginning of the next year, engines will be send to the manufacturers for flying tests.

Excellent news...

P.S: I dont want to think about anymore but I can't help it. That so called 42.5k and Helo engines still gave me shitty taste. Mr Akşit shows that how engine is built. Not to come out with a foreign engine or stolen pictures and say we did it, like everyone else is fool enough to believe it

 

[Sanchez]

MKE's RATO variants. These will be invaluable again for large one way drones.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2052985036454994093

 

[dBSPL]

Those tests feel like an eternity, but it is what it is.

TEI GM Prof. Dr. Mahmut Faruk Akşit:
TS1400 is actually flight-ready with all the tests and similar processes currently being conducted; we are in the third (3rd) and final stage of certification.
If there are no hitches, God willing, we expect to complete the certification process next year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2052723638294503622

According to the statements, we can say that the qualification for the TS1400 has been completed and customer requirements have been met. Regarding certification: First Stage is Design Verification. Theoretically proving that the engine's design and engineering calculations comply with civil aviation standards (EASA CS-E). Second Stage: Organizational Competence. Confirmation that the manufacturer (TEI) has the infrastructure and quality system to produce this engine with consistent quality every time.

Third Stage: Final Testing and Qualification. Proving that the engine, whose design and structure have been approved, has passed critical tests such as icing, bird strike, and 150-hour endurance tests in the presence of international auditors. At the end of this stage, the EASA CS-E airworthiness approval, civil passenger transport authorization, and the 'Type Certificate' critical for export are obtained.

In summary, the TS1400 is technically and militarily ready for duty, presumably. However, the international certification process for civilian tests focused on human life (and which could create export barriers) is ongoing. The timeline for the final, type certification might not be solely in TEI's hands. I don't want to speculate, but with the TS1400, TEI entering an important league that will be sharing the market with some traditional suppliers.

 

[Zafer]

So TEI will send the engines to the manifacturers; this means both TUSAŞ and Baykar will get the TF6000 engines in 8 months or so. Kızılelma might be running both the TF6k and TF10k in this case.

TF10k will have its first ignition by end of 2027 this means roughly by end of 2028 we can expect it to fly. I don't remember very well how long it took for the TF6000 from the first run to flight ready but should be around a year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2053073890235101350

 

[Zafer]

Baykar will produce the TB2 engine in thousands. Baykar are also working on a turbine engine inhouse and are committed to success.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2053036424518070774

 

[Zafer]

TEI exported a sizable lot of engines.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2053095811852972217

 

[Yasar_TR]

According to the statements, we can say that the qualification for the TS1400 has been completed and customer requirements have been met. Regarding certification: First Stage is Design Verification. Theoretically proving that the engine's design and engineering calculations comply with civil aviation standards (EASA CS-E). Second Stage: Organizational Competence. Confirmation that the manufacturer (TEI) has the infrastructure and quality system to produce this engine with consistent quality every time.

Third Stage: Final Testing and Qualification. Proving that the engine, whose design and structure have been approved, has passed critical tests such as icing, bird strike, and 150-hour endurance tests in the presence of international auditors. At the end of this stage, the EASA CS-E airworthiness approval, civil passenger transport authorization, and the 'Type Certificate' critical for export are obtained.

In summary, the TS1400 is technically and militarily ready for duty, presumably. However, the international certification process for civilian tests focused on human life (and which could create export barriers) is ongoing. The timeline for the final, type certification might not be solely in TEI's hands. I don't want to speculate, but with the TS1400, TEI entering an important league that will be sharing the market with some traditional suppliers.

One thing we mustn’t overlook is the 56 piece order of Gokbey Navy has placed with Tusas. That means 120+ engines that are navalised as well as the helicopter it self. Also TS-1400 needs to be of military spec. Do we know if these parameters have been met.

 

[HKY]

During the interview with Tolga Özbek when talking about TF6000 Mahmut Akşit said "This is a simplified, first version of the engine."

Many commentators said TF6000 is as big as F404 so it needs to have higher thrust . Hopefully much powerful versions (8000-10000 lbf) will arrive. A 10.000 lbf dry -16600 wet variant could easily power Hurjet or future Kızılelma variants.

 

[boredaf]

Many commentators said TF6000 is as big as F404

Who said that? It is more than a meter shorter, has something like 30 cm smaller diameter and weighs third what F404 does.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Let us look at them a little closer where it matters.

F404 fan diameter : ~28inches
TF6000 fan diameter : ~26 inches

F404 length : 391cm
TF10000 length : 315cm

F404 weight : 1035kg
TF6000 weight : ~400kg

Just because TF6000 looks fatter because it has a higher bypass ratio than F404, doesn’t make it a f404 class engine.
TF6000 has a 2inch smaller diameter fan. That governs the amount of air it can push in to the core.
But it has a much larger bypass ratio: 1.08:1 for tf6000
F404 bypass ratio : 0.34:1
For every 1kg of air going through tf6000’s core 1.08kg goes around it.
For every 1kg of air going through F404’s core, only 0.34kg of air goes around it.
As per Dr Aksit’s words; 40% of tf6000’s thrust comes from bypassed air.

Inspite of a smaller diameter fan, TF6000 pumps out a lot of air that bypasses the core for a 6000lbf class turbofan.

These are two very differently designed engines. TF6000 is designed with stealth in mind. It will perform better in lower altitudes. F404/is an all rounder. It is not stealthy as it is.

When Dr Aksit mentioned a “simpler” engine he didn’t mean tomorrow when the engine has matured it will give thrust levels like f404.
An increase of 10-15% can be expected as TEI works with a large tolerance level when designing engines if TS-1400 case is taken as a basis.

 

[Samba]

US: Hypersonic ramjet engine design time cut from months to seconds

The team at GE Aerospace said they simultaneously accounted for multiple flight conditions and scenarios for the hypersonic ramjet engine.

interestingengineering.com

 

[sh. Abdj]

Why many people in this forum are criticizing Gushhan Engine?! If Turkeye can make some changes on an engine that it knows how to produce abd make it more powerful with some structural changes it is enough work to call it new engine. In case the U.S did what it always do and tried to harm the project a ready engine is available.

 

[Saithan]

Let us look at them a little closer where it matters.

F404 fan diameter : ~28inches
TF6000 fan diameter : ~26 inches

F404 length : 391cm
TF10000 length : 315cm

F404 weight : 1035kg
TF6000 weight : ~400kg

Just because TF6000 looks fatter because it has a higher bypass ratio than F404, doesn’t make it a f404 class engine.
TF6000 has a 2inch smaller diameter fan. That governs the amount of air it can push in to the core.
But it has a much larger bypass ratio: 1.08:1 for tf6000
F404 bypass ratio : 0.34:1
For every 1kg of air going through tf6000’s core 1.08kg goes around it.
For every 1kg of air going through F404’s core, only 0.34kg of air goes around it.
As per Dr Aksit’s words; 40% of tf6000’s thrust comes from bypassed air.

Inspite of a smaller diameter fan, TF6000 pumps out a lot of air that bypasses the core for a 6000lbf class turbofan.

These are two very differently designed engines. TF6000 is designed with stealth in mind. It will perform better in lower altitudes. F404/is an all rounder. It is not stealthy as it is.

When Dr Aksit mentioned a “simpler” engine he didn’t mean tomorrow when the engine has matured it will give thrust levels like f404.
An increase of 10-15% can be expected as TEI works with a large tolerance level when designing engines if TS-1400 case is taken as a basis.

I like the explanation of how much air goes around the engine. But does that mean a lot more air goes around the engine that doesn't get used for thrust ?

My amateurish understanding tells me, the more air we can get to go into and through the engine the more thrust we would get.

So any air not going into the engine is wasted.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Y

I like the explanation of how much air goes around the engine. But does that mean a lot more air goes around the engine that doesn't get used for thrust ?

My amateurish understanding tells me, the more air we can get to go into and through the engine the more thrust we would get.

So any air not going into the engine is wasted.

I am afraid it doesn’t work as you think.

For turbofan engines :

Bypassed air contribute to the thrust as well.
The cold air going round the core of engine and thrown out of the nozzle together with the hot air coming from the core BOTH contribute to total thrust. As Dr Akşit mentioned, 40% of TF6000’s thrust is provided by this colder air.

In commercial airliner engines the bypass ratio is much higher. Say an engine like GE90 with a bypass ratio of 9:1 means: for very 1kg of air passing through the core, 9kg of air goes round the engine and thrown out together with the hot air coming from the core. So in commercial turbofans you have a huge fan driven by the core. that acts like a propeller sucking air in to engine but most of it being thrown out round the core. 80 to 90% of all thrust in a GE90 is provided by bypassed air.

NOTHING IS WASTED

Check out Boeing 777 engine GE90

EDIT :

This means Turbofans love working where there is dense air. Then it can suck in and throw out air much more efficiently. Where air is rare, like in very high altitudes, it would be labouring. That is where turbojets come in to play. The very high altitudes are the domain of turbojets. With turbojets there is no bypassed air. It is all hot air being ejected from the nozzle.

 

[mTT]

TEI General Manager Prof. Dr Mahmut Faruk Akşit announced that the TS1400 engine, which powers the GÖKBEY helicopter, will enter series production in 2026.

Akşit noted that TEI has reached a significant level in indigenous engineering software, superalloy production and turbine technologies, stating that these capabilities form a critical infrastructure for KAAN’s future engine technologies.

It was also noted that the PD170 and PD200 engines are currently in active service on the ANKA, AKSUNGUR and TB3 platforms.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2061727618647380141

TEI General Manager Prof. Dr Mahmut Faruk Akşit:

GÖKBEY’s domestically produced engine has already flown successfully. Following this year’s deliveries, it will be fully operational in service by next year.

As for the engines for the Kara Şahin helicopters used by our armed forces, we have been manufacturing them entirely domestically under a licensed production agreement at our facilities in Eskişehir since 2022.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2061730961897779356

 

[Pokemonte13]

Deliveries of Gökbey with domestic engine are supposed to start in 2028 anyway. By their production speed they will maybe finish the first package with foreign engines in 2027 even though they said 2026. I wonder if we will see Gökbey with different payloads as the ones who were delivered are bare bone (I know its enough for Jandarma and other civilian users). The only thing i saw was the iff antenna on army but nothing else.

 

[Yasar_TR]

AKÜ'de Savunma Sanayii Konferansı: "KAAN Motoru Yüksek İrtifada F-16'yı İkiye Katlıyor"

Afyon Kocatepe Üniversitesi (AKÜ) ev sahipliğinde düzenlenen "Savunma Teknolojileri ve Tarihimizin Dönüm Noktaları" konferansında konuşan TEI Genel Müdürü Mahmut Faruk Akşit, yeni geliştirdikleri KAAN motorunun yüksek irtifadaki performansına dikkat çekerek, "KAAN motoru, F-16 motoruna göre...

www.afyonpostasi.com.tr

Prof Akşit has made a statement that the new TF35000 engine is producing 80% more thrust at high altitude when compared to a F110 engine.

Well, at say 50000ft altitude, f110 engine’s dry thrust is approximately 3000lbf to 3500lbf compared to it’s sea level dry thrust of 17150lbf.
Also F110’s AB thrust would be between 8000 to 10000lbf at 50000ft; as opposed to it’s sea level thrust of 29000lbf.

So the TF35000 engine is producing around 6300lbf dry thrust at 50000ft. Also it would produce a wet thrust at that high altitude of up to 18000lbf.

For a higher bypass ratio engine that is probably a good achievement.

But the real interesting point is in his wording.

“Our newly developed KAAN engine produces 80 percent more power at high altitude compared to the F-16 engine. Almost double the amount.”

That is a statement that is reminiscent of explaining an event that has already happened.