TR Propulsion Systems

[Siper>MMU]

Mr Akşit: "The PG50 was originally designed for a short-term, single-use mission. Our different platform manufacturers said that there is a need for this engine to be used repeatedly and for a long time in small UAVs. Both our customers from Turkey and a potential customer from Azerbaijan came and questioned their abilities. We derived a long-lasting version of the PG50, which we call the PG50S. Life tests continue. We're testing how long it can fly reliably. Almost all small drones fly with electric power systems. They have their limits. When you go to missions that require great power and long stay in the air, the battery system can no longer meet the need physically, you have to come to fossil fuel engines. The PG50 fits this segment and responds to the need. We're transforming the PG50 as a hybrid, both fuel and electric."

They should develop an UAV with 300-350kg MTOW like Barzan A5000. A5000 can carry 2 MAM-L equilavent munitions. You can transport them in a single truck, control it from that truck, can take off and land from unprepared runways; perfect for high sortie strikes. With 70-90km control range. Very low cost compared to a TB2. PG50 can be enough for that type of UAV

 

[Oublious]

We should have to face the reallity and stop losing time. When Aksit talked about the TFX engine several years ago i thought 14.5 years to finish the project it is almost 3 years back. We have lost 3 years of 14.5 years asking to work with RR.

Turkish officials have to understand that ther are things what can not be bought and the Western world now it. People thought when we put TRmotor out of the picture the problem would solve. IP rights and fabrication will stay in UK it is a sensetive technologu, face it and start the faking project and stop losing time. Or accept that EJ2000 and do your modification on it. We don't have time, and UK now it!


I believe that the project with RR will get stuck with IP rights and fabrication.

 

[fire starter]

We should have to face the reallity and stop losing time. When Aksit talked about the TFX engine several years ago i thought 14.5 years to finish the project it is almost 3 years back. We have lost 3 years of 14.5 years asking to work with RR.

Turkish officials have to understand that ther are things what can not be bought and the Western world now it. People thought when we put TRmotor out of the picture the problem would solve. IP rights and fabrication will stay in UK it is a sensetive technologu, face it and start the faking project and stop losing time. Or accept that EJ2000 and do your modification on it. We don't have time, and UK now it!


I believe that the project with RR will get stuck with IP rights and fabrication.

You also need to bring something on the table if u want IP.

 

[Yasar_TR]

You also need to bring something on the table if u want IP.

No one will give you IP rights of a modern 5th generation stealth plane’s engine. As it is going to be a lucrative engine deal for RR, they are not going to release IP rights to Turkey freely, even if we are prepared to pay for it. They will push to the last moment to obtain some form of hold on any engine they are involved in. They know we are stuck and we need them.
There is no reason not to let them have the IP rights as long as we can have full autonomy on third party sales. Important point is to have as large a share portion as possible in local manufacturing of especially hot parts of the engine. This capability will pave the way to our own indigenous engines.

Having said that, this project is also something new for RR too, as although they have manufactured very large and powerful high by pass passenger jet turbofan engines, they have not produced a fighter jet low bypass engine with more than 24000lbf (Harrier Pegasus) in real life. Yes they were partners in F136 project with GE. But as RR alone, there is no known engine that they have produced that is as powerful as what we want.

 

[Combat-Master]

TEI Programs Director Ahmet Kain:
"In TEI-PD170, our domestic contribution rate has exceeded 90%. Aluminum alloy engine block, turbo systems, gearbox, alternator, etc. they are all local. "

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391031037371748354

 

[Abdelaziz]

View attachment 44433

What is the source of the photo

 

[Era_shield]

PD-155 is a straight copy of Centurion 2.0 . I wouldn't call it an indigenous engine.

The Centurion 2.0 is itself a modified Merc OM640 engine, not some original idea or design. The PD-155 is made by the same principle of modification of the same Merc engine.

 

[Heartbang]

Merc OM640

i bet those are assembled in Turkiye at some point.

 

[Ecderha]

WTF is wrong with that guy? He like to bashing the developments of Turkish defence industry, i am getting irritated by his post.

jealousy, anger and hate are the benefactor for them.
Just my advice to you. Put yourself on other frequency.
99% time it is not worth to explain things to people which not looking for logic and answers

 

[Fuzuli NL]

WTF is wrong with that guy? He like to bashing the developments of Turkish defence industry, i am getting irritated by his post.

Who?

 

[Zafer]

I am not bashing the whole defence industry here. Only thing I am criticising is TEI's current state. The head man always says "we can do the best, we will deliver engines this year, then the other year and then the other" but for years we didn't see anything solid. PD170 is not in service yet (I am not the one who says that, I asked them myself and a personel answered. Also you can see there isn't any news about it entering to service, only news of 40 engine delivery.), same things apply for TJ90, and PD-220, PD-180.. There isn't a single indigenous design engine TEI has given to the service, and they(he) are promising a turbofan for MMU? While they don't have and experience designing (not producing!) a turbofan engine from scratch. There is excellent things going on with RR and Kale right now. All the TEI is now doing is slowing the process. If we don't want to get suprised 10 years later when TEI still hasn't come out with an engine, we should go with RR/Kale and stop listening to TEI.

Relax, we do not have any urgency to push those engines to service any faster than that is being done right now.
Time is being taken to make better and better products with more and more national resources.

 

[Xenon54]

Relax, we do not have any urgency to push those engines to service any faster than that is being done right now.
Time is being taken to make better and better products with more and more national resources.

Still gotta ask yourself why development of piston engine takes so long all the while west is putting more and more sanctions on us, its not live we dont need engines now.
And another question is if development of piston engine takes this long then how long will it take for a turbofan?

Dont call names to people who ask these questions, these are important questions to ask, same was done to critics when people were critisizing the whole BMC scandals, now those who were name calling are all quiet about the ussue and we still dont have any tank...

 

[Quasar]

this is a defence forum where people have right to express their oppions, ask their questions or express their concerns on certain subjects as long as it is done with appropriate manners and as long as they are based on facts.

 

[Zafer]

Still gotta ask yourself why development of piston engine takes so long all the while west is putting more and more sanctions on us, its not live we dont need engines now.
And another question is if development of piston engine takes this long then how long will it take for a turbofan?

Dont call names to people who ask these questions, these are important questions to ask, same was done to critics when people were critisizing the whole BMC scandals, now those who were name calling are all quiet about the ussue and we still dont have any tank...

What name calling are you talking about?

Aluminum engine block making was a technology we did not have in Türkiye.

The only aluminium engine block making factory was founded by one of the foreign companies, probably Renault very recently. So we have gained diesel aluminium engine block foundry capability just very recently (not the same foundry). It is not like we had the capability but we did not make engine blocks for the TEI engines. So it is not just about making engines, it is also about gaining major new capabilities. It is a slippery ground in the UAV engine field. The technology may switch to other types or sizes of aircraft and your investment can go to waste. So it is only natural to take it slowly and surely.

Piston engines are actually not any less complicated to make than turbine engines. I believe TEI have more capability to make turbine engines than they do with piston engines. They have been making parts for foreign engine projects all along while they haven't been making piston engines.

Some of the engines they made in the past were just development engines to gain technology with no specific end product in mind which served their purposes and gave TEI lots of experience. So questioning TEI for not making end products for those engines is groundless. There will be a time when all their experience will be useful.

TEI now have the guts and the power to go for the top engine class for fighter jets. This is a major milestone that few nations have reached. When we pull this off we are in the top 3 in engine making. I will give it a decade max.

 

[Xenon54]

What name calling are you talking about?

Previous page.

 

[Merzifonlu]

@Zafer Is right. Yes, TEI designed the PD-170 engines, but had the bodies of PD-170 prototype engines cast by a British casting company. Therefore, TEI cannot be blamed for the newly commissioned PD-170s. Designing is one thing, being able to mass-produce the product you have designed is another matter. Otherwise, we would be seeing Armata Tanks fighting in Ukraine right now.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkish continuous detonation wave engine prototype

TÜBİTAK SAGE'de bir başarılı ateşleme daha!

"Türkiye'nin Uzay Yolculuğu" başlıklı panelinde TÜBİTAK SAGE Enerjik Sistemler Grup Koordinatörü Dr. Bülent SÜMER ve ROKETSAN İleri Teknolojiler ve Sistemler Genel Müdür Yardımcısı Dr. Sartuk KARASOY konuşmacı olarak yer aldı.

www.defenceturk.net

The first ignition of the engine happened yesterday.

 

[Lool]

Turkish continuous detonation wave engine prototype

TÜBİTAK SAGE'de bir başarılı ateşleme daha!

"Türkiye'nin Uzay Yolculuğu" başlıklı panelinde TÜBİTAK SAGE Enerjik Sistemler Grup Koordinatörü Dr. Bülent SÜMER ve ROKETSAN İleri Teknolojiler ve Sistemler Genel Müdür Yardımcısı Dr. Sartuk KARASOY konuşmacı olarak yer aldı.

www.defenceturk.net

The first ignition of the engine happened yesterday.

Sorry for being ignorant about such topics but What is the use of such engine?

 

[Agha Sher]

Sorry for being ignorant about such topics but What is the use of such engine?

Space primarily

 

[Zafer]

Sorry for being ignorant about such topics but What is the use of such engine?

Fuel economy and lighter weight. It is like the difference between piston engine and turbine engine for fuel use.