TR Propulsion Systems

[Saithan]

While it's awesome that Tülomsas has been on the market for so long and are building Marine Engines. I think a slight comparison is needed to understand how close we are to e.g. supplying Milgem ADA with a domestic Marine Engine.

Milgem ADA 31,640 kW (42,430 hp) RENK (MAN) CODAG

Two big Motherf**** engine supplying the ship with 42k HP.

When we can build our own Marine engine for LDP and/or Corvettes, then we can be happy. Until then They'll be products that aren't utilized in any vessel and thus sad to say, but waste of effort because people want to see their effort be rewarded or motivation will be rock bottom, and we can go back to our assembly lines.

 

[Yasar_TR]

While it's awesome that Tülomsas has been on the market for so long and are building Marine Engines. I think a slight comparison is needed to understand how close we are to e.g. supplying Milgem ADA with a domestic Marine Engine.

Milgem ADA 31,640 kW (42,430 hp) RENK (MAN) CODAG

View attachment 31143

Two big Motherf**** engine supplying the ship with 42k HP.

When we can build our own Marine engine for LDP and/or Corvettes, then we can be happy. Until then They'll be products that aren't utilized in any vessel and thus sad to say, but waste of effort because people want to see their effort be rewarded or motivation will be rock bottom, and we can go back to our assembly lines.

Just to clarify; The CODAG power of Ada Class is :
Total installed power is 42K HP. (That includes all 3 engines.)
The diesels are 2 x 5790 HP
The Gas turbine power is 31000 HP

 

[Yasar_TR]

In near future we will need domestic marine engines. Yet there isn't any project for that. Especially gas turbines are the trickiest part for us. Maybe Tülomsaş can build a diesel engine but developing a gas turbine engine with high thermal efficiency seems to be impossible for us in near future. So I think we must start both turbine and diesel engine projects as quick as possible. These will take serious time.

Tulomsas has managed to produce an operational marine diesel engine with a power output of 2400HP. Our Ada class uses 2 x 5800 HP engines.
So they need to double their power output for bigger ships.
It is also possible to use diesels in 4 x 2500 HP as used in type 26 frigates where the diesels are generators, powering electric drives.
Since Tulomsas is in partnership with GE, where they are manufacturing diesel locomotive engines, there could be a lot of synergy. Under license production of GE marine engines could be an initial solution.
When it comes to gas turbines; Partnership of GE and TEI with the latest MOU signing where it clearly states possibility of manufacturing L2500 and L500 gas turbines in cooperation, is a godsend for us.

GE Marine, TEI To Explore More GE Gas Turbines Production And Maintenance Sites In Turkey - Naval News

GE Marine and TUSAS Engine Industries, Inc. (TEI) signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) whereby GE and TEI will explore additional localization efforts relating to the manufacture, assembly and repair of GE’s LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines, the companies announced today at the IDEF 2021...

www.navalnews.com

 

[Anmdt]

Just to clarify; The CODAG power of Ada Class is :
Total installed power is 42K HP. (That includes all 3 engines.)
The diesels are 2 x 5790 HP
The Gas turbine power is 31000 HP

It is 31 MW, to be honest seeing HP did confuse me for a moment .
When you work with folds of a thousand, HP doesn't really go well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

It is 31 MW, to be honest seeing HP did confuse me for a moment .
When you work with folds of a thousand, HP doesn't really go well.

It says 30844 HP (23MW) for the gas turbine as stated in here:

Ada class Corvette Milgem Turkish Navy Türk Deniz Kuvvetleri

ada class corvette milgem tcg heybeliada buyukada burgazada kinaliada turkish navy

www.seaforces.org

31MW is the total power plant which is 42000 HP

 

[Saithan]

Does energy efficiency matter at this state ? What tonnage could Tülomsas current engine be installed upon, do we have any OPV candidates ?

 

[Spook]

In near future we will need domestic marine engines. Yet there isn't any project for that. Especially gas turbines are the trickiest part for us. Maybe Tülomsaş can build a diesel engine but developing a gas turbine engine with high thermal efficiency seems to be impossible for us in near future. So I think we must start both turbine and diesel engine projects as quick as possible. These will take serious time.

TEI in very good position for developing diesel engines. TEI and Tulomsas could modernize, upgrade Pielstick engines for civilian, military use. and develop new advanced diesel engines. We need to start as soon as possible. As you said it takes time.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Does energy efficiency matter at this state ? What tonnage could Tülomsas current engine be installed upon, do we have any OPV candidates ?

Energy efficiency is definitely important.
Tulomsas has produced 4 x 2200HP engines to power the largest ferry Turkey has. It is a 4000+ ton ferryboat carrying trains across Lake Van. Each engine uses about 400 litres of fuel per hour. There are 4 propellers and only a single engine can power all four propellers. As ferries go, this ferry’s engines claim to use less than all other current ones.

Türkiye'nin en büyük feribotu Van Gölü'nde deneme seferine çıktı

Van Gölü Feribot Müdürlüğü tarafından, Bitlis’in Tatvan ilçesinde yapımı tamamlanan iki feribottan ilki olan Türkiye’nin en büyük feribotu deneme seferine...

www.hurriyet.com.tr

Van Gölü için inşa edilen feribota yerli dizel motor monte edildi

TÜLOMSAŞ'ta üretilen ve 1974 yılından beri lokomotiflerde kullanılan motor denize uygun hale getirildi ve Van Gölü'ne indirilen ülkenin en büyük feribotuna monte edildi.

www.denizhaber.net

Feasibility of these engines in naval ships has to be looked into. But we have a factory that can build a domestic marine engine.
Tulomsas is setting up a new line for marine engines that will produce up to 10000 HP power.

FATİH YILMAZ: Van Gölü Ferilerine TÜLOMSAŞ Motorları Takılacak

Her şey 2009 yılında başladı...Türkiye Lokomotif ve Motor Sanayi A.Ş. (TÜLOMSAŞ) tarafından üretilen 1800-2400HP gücündeki diesel motorların, Türk özel sektörünün yük ve yolcu gemilerinde yardımcı makine olarak, İDO'ya ait feribot ve vapurlarda ise ana ve

www.denizhaber.com

 

[Anmdt]

Energy efficiency is definitely important.
Tulomsas has produced 4 x 2400HP engines to power the largest ferry Turkey has. It is a 4000+ ton ferryboat carrying trains across Lake Van. Each engine uses about 400 litres of fuel per hour. There are 4 propellers and only a single engine can power all four propellers. As ferries go, this ferry’s engines claim to use less than all other current ones.

Türkiye'nin en büyük feribotu Van Gölü'nde deneme seferine çıktı

Van Gölü Feribot Müdürlüğü tarafından, Bitlis’in Tatvan ilçesinde yapımı tamamlanan iki feribottan ilki olan Türkiye’nin en büyük feribotu deneme seferine...

www.hurriyet.com.tr

Van Gölü için inşa edilen feribota yerli dizel motor monte edildi

TÜLOMSAŞ'ta üretilen ve 1974 yılından beri lokomotiflerde kullanılan motor denize uygun hale getirildi ve Van Gölü'ne indirilen ülkenin en büyük feribotuna monte edildi.

www.denizhaber.net

Feasibility of these engines in naval ships has to be looked into. But we have a factory that can build a domestic marine engine.

I haven't check the specs but this is what i can say:
The engines on ferry is morelikely medium speed; the lower the speed goes the higher the efficiency gets (in very simple terms, there are other factors effecting that but i am particularly focusing on naval engines here). (Reason why the merchant ships opt for very large and very low speed engines). That ferry has not much concern of the increasing propeller size and probably haven't got an inclined shaft, or its shaft is much shorter compared to a warship. She literally doesn't care about how big the engine is, all she cares is that the engine efficiently propelling.
Imo making a good efficient truck engine doesn't really help us in the way of making the tank engine. This is all i can say to summarize it better.

A warship uses low weight, low volume high or sometimes very high speed engines specifically optimized for certain applications.you may see two identical engines, in size, in power output and rpm but one of them might be optimized for 40% continous rate for very long term, while another has been optimized for heavy duties but 80% utilizatiom in shorter terms. Yet both engines when needed provides the same output and may even perform at 110-120% for a moment ( a moment at the sea equals to a few days, just to note).

Having the know-how of a marine engine is a good thing, knowing how it operates, cools, or the fuel is provided or the exhaust is taken out is a good thing. Conceptually this is like knowing how to cook the meat, but not being able to make a kebab.

 

[Anmdt]

Does energy efficiency matter at this state ? What tonnage could Tülomsas current engine be installed upon, do we have any OPV candidates ?

Not the efficiency but the size matters the most

 

[Saithan]

Not the efficiency but the size matters the most

Corny though it may sound, but does that mean with regard to marine engines bigger engines last longer and delivers required power due to laws of physics ? Because the laws governing the sea are pretty much set in stone and the vessels shape as well ?

 

[Anmdt]

Corny though it may sound, but does that mean with regard to marine engines bigger engines last longer and delivers required power due to laws of physics ? Because the laws governing the sea are pretty much set in stone and the vessels shape as well ?

Yes, the vessel's shape govern it first, and then it comes to reliability. A warship first dictates a power to volume ratio and then a sufficient reliability and maintenance interval, as well as ability to handle heavy duties.
I haven't seen so far that an engine was replaced for being less efficient on a warship as long as it fits the above criteria.

The bigger engines move slower, they burn more fuel at each cycle, spends longer time to mix and burn. Since they also bear less pressure and heat for having a large cylinder diameter and stroke length, these engines are rather easy to design and manufacture. It gets challenging when the sizes get smaller and energy get denser.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438536399591026688

First Deliveries Made at KTJ-3200

 

[Combat-Master]

TEI-TJ300 - Medium Range Anti-Ship Missile Jet Engine

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437431128777007106

The TEI additive manufacturing team discussed the additive manufacturing activities of #TEI in 2021, one of the most important international events in the field, AMC Turkey.

 

[Turko]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gurgorgun_idef2021-idef21-femsan-activity-6833719910187732992-TiUX

Naval Forces Commander Admiral Adnan Özbal, Northern Sea Area Commander Rear Admiral Tayyar Ertem and Naval Technical Commander Rear Admiral Ramis Akın visited our stand and FEMSAN Heavy Class Torpedo Electric Motor and they received up-to-date information about Driver systems. Thank you for your visits and support. Femsan Electric Motors #IDEF2021 #IDEF21 #FEMSAN See translation OFEMSAN Electric Motors ar Actuator UAV Alternator 120

 

[Combat-Master]

BMC POWER BATU - 1500hp Engine

BATU POWERPACK

 

[Hexciter]

“Kale ArGe develops turbojet engines for ROKETSAN's Medium Range Anti-Ship Missile (OMGF) System and KUZGUN-TJ smart ammunition developed by TÜBİTAK SAGE.”

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438883087652360193

 

[SavunmaSanayiST.com]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438870308371509256

 

[Hexciter]

Although the integration work of KTJ-3200 was first started on SOM ALCM, it is expected to move to the fire test phase more quickly with ATMACA G/M since there is no need for flight test and air platform allocation due to land-firing.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438891774634774528