not good enough to counter Greek f35s.Well, we probably can secure some amounts of F110s for the first batch, let's hope that engine development can be finished until 2033 and be integrated to Block 2, 2033 is a good time actually
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not good enough to counter Greek f35s.Well, we probably can secure some amounts of F110s for the first batch, let's hope that engine development can be finished until 2033 and be integrated to Block 2, 2033 is a good time actually
Depends, your nozzle reflection won't be detected from the front, that's not a big concern also they won't receive their shiny F-35s before 2029-2030 because of the production queuenot good enough to counter Greek f35s.
I bet you are aware that Mr. Akşit says the first engine always takes longer to develop while subsequent engines cut the time by half. So looking at the timeline of TS1400 requires spacial looking glasses to evaluate it correctly. He even said the third engine developed takes even less time, for a note.Looking at the timeline of a simpler engine like TS1400; By the time the tests are completed and the serial production stage is reached we will at best see post 2033
These are not engines that are subject to the same requirements.I bet you are aware that Mr. Akşit says the first engine always takes longer to develop while subsequent engines cut the time by half. So looking at the timeline of TS1400 requires spacial looking glasses to evaluate it correctly. He even said the third engine developed takes even less time, for a note.
I don't know if it was from last year or the year before, but I've read an interview with (I think) Ismail Demir, where he said "2029 will be the year when Turkish turbofan will take to the skies for the first time" or something along those lines. So yes, that previous interview seems to reinforce your judgement.@Zafer
Yes the chief of the TAI says in fact that “by 2028 TR Motor will have completed the design development of the indigenous engine for TFX” .
Quote:
Öte yandan 2028’e kadar da iştirakimiz olan TR Motor şirketimiz yerli motoru geliştirmiş olacak.
Kaynak: haber.aero
unquote.
Since this design bureau doesn’t have capability to manufacture the completed design, it will be given to a third party manufacturing plant like TEI to produce the engine. Looking at the timeline of a simpler engine like TS1400; By the time the tests are completed and the serial production stage is reached we will at best see post 2033.
On the same interview I've mentioned above, 2026~2027 period was projected as the target for first ignition."TRMotor will complete the development of the national engine by 2028". This doesn't tell a lot. We need to know the estimated first ignition date to better assess the situation.
they will do their best to get priority delivery, and their chances are notable. Greek officials keep telling they'll get their planes after 2027they won't receive their shiny F-35s before 2029-2030 because of the production queue
I really like and respect Dr Aksit. He is a rare gem this country has raised. But, at times, he loves blowing his own trumpet a bit too much. At the same time no matter what he says about what TEI can do; Proof of the pudding is in the eating. We are seeing the process of how long it takes to develop an engine before it can be in serial production and flying planes in numbers.I bet you are aware that Mr. Akşit says the first engine always takes longer to develop while subsequent engines cut the time by half. So looking at the timeline of TS1400 requires spacial looking glasses to evaluate it correctly. He even said the third engine developed takes even less time, for a note.
Development timeline of TF6000 will be telling.
In English there is a saying; “Beggars can’t be choosers”
When translated in to one’s own language it is crude and rather demeaning. But in English when used in context it is just a way of expressing that when you have no other choice you have to accept what you are given.
We have no way of producing a stealthy turbofan engine that will propel TFX and be ready for serial production before post 2033. Even then it is a bit suspect. The only option we have in hand at the moment is RR/Kale producing an engine. If they want to hang on to IP rights, let them. But the important point is to produce an engine freely for our plane and have no restrictions on sale to third parties.
The know how and experience we will gather from the production of this engine will pave the way to the production of our own indigenous turbofan engine, just like CT-800 being produced under license paved the way for TS-1400.
If you say it is unreasonable and illogical, Turkey should say yes to everything that is said. You looked at the question between Turkey and America and Europe from the point of view of the Greeks or the peoples who are the country's enemies.The geopolitical question has to be fully explored and taken into account. Otherwise we risk another s400/F35 fiasco.
The government should take into account where she thinks she may need to militarily act in the next 20 to 30 years and whether any of these places will be a prime excuse for our western partners to sanction and embargo us over.
Should we need to act and should the sanctions be inevitable, have we created a contingency for what we do to cover the time frame until we can produce our own?
For example its obvious to me that Turkey will find herself more and more involved in syria and iraq for at least another 10 years if not more, will this be reason enough to be sanctioned over again?
What happens if we end up fighting a small war with greece over her demands to control the entire aegean sea?
Turkey doesn't have the luxury to put all her eggs in one basket.
When it comes to engines for fighter jets, how many countries can produce them today?
Turbine blades will be under more stress but there will be more real estate on them to use for better cooling too.it is a different situation as the conditions change
If you say it is unreasonable and illogical, Turkey should say yes to everything that is said. You looked at the question between Turkey and America and Europe from the point of view of the Greeks or the peoples who are the country's enemies.
You seem to be stuck in “indigenous engine” mode. And cannot go past it.Turbine blades will be under more stress but there will be more real estate on them to use for better cooling too.
After all it is supposed to be produced within Türkiye and RR will only help design it. So where will the blades come from if not Tübitak/TEI. Will Kale make them, of course not. We have to develop the turbine blade technology inside Tübitak and hand them to TEI as has been done for the TS1400.
Indigenous is the final stop, you can not get past it.You seem to be stuck in “indigenous engine” mode. And cannot go past it.
We know it is of utmost importance and our priority and that it needs to be done sooner than later.
But you have to think of all eventualities and realities. Otherwise you end up with another Altay fiasco on your lap.
If RR/Kale are going to produce an engine, it’s critical parts that we currently can not manufacture (And there are and will be quite a few of these), will come from RR. When gradually our expertise in these technologies improve they will be replaced with Turkish manufactured parts, provided this is definitely put in to the contract.
This is exactly what has happened with T-700 Blackhawk engines. First lot of engines had hot parts belonging to GE. Now including the turbine blades almost all critical hot parts are being manufactured in house at TEI. Even the innovative single part combustion chamber that is produced with 3D additive technologies. (This is the part Dr Aksit, rightfully, was boasting about being a single unit instead of it being made up of 13 different parts)
So please go past this “indigenous, indigenous“ repetition, and see the bigger picture. We all want the same thing. Our TFX flying with our engines. But to get there we need to cover ourselves from all angles against all eventualities.
you are delusionalIndigenous is the final stop, youpossibly withet past it.
RR involvement is rather an impediment than a boost in the way of going indigenous as the financial cost of it can get in the way of domestic development. In the worst case eventuality indigenous development timeline get extended an additional 5 years during which we can use a variety of planes made with the upcoming TF6000 engine and possibly with the intermediate developmental varieties of the TFX engine. RR deal is more of political value than technical, I will not dwell on this as it is a preference.
TS-1400 has a turbine entry air temperature of 1350degrees C. Maximum temperatures they have attained with it is around 1400degrees Celcius. For the 30000+lbf class engine we are looking to install in TFX, turbine entry temperature will be in excess of 1650degrees Celsius.