35 km is not Toygun range but it's Lazer finder range,TOYGUN is not similar to EOTS.
It has 35km
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35 km is not Toygun range but it's Lazer finder range,TOYGUN is not similar to EOTS.
It has 35km
35 km is not Toygun range but it's Lazer finder range,
Neither FLIR nor IRST provide fire control in A2A, and distance to target doesn't need to be known to slew an A2A missile seeker onto it. As long as the distance can be estimated to within the missile's engagement envelope, it's enough to engage a target. The distinction between these two is pretty arbitrary btw, since IRSTs are just a particular implementation of FLIR.Right, but as I said, TOYGUN is FLIR, not IRST. In case you don't know, a FLIR can only provide accurate Fire control solution as far as its Laser range finder and target designator allows it.
This is not a problem because kaan has it's independent IRTSRight, but as I said, TOYGUN is FLIR. A FLIR can only provide accurate Fire control solution as far as its Laser range finder and target designator allows it.
Neither FLIR nor IRST provide fire control in A2A, and distance to target doesn't need to be known to slew an A2A missile seeker onto it. As long as the distance can be estimated to within the missile's engagement envelope, it's enough to engage a target.
This is not a problem because kaan has it's independent IRTS
I read your analysis on F-35 RCS and EIRS detection range, and I agree with your sentiment. F-35 has rendered all SAM systems virtually obsolete, it's simply just too late for these systems to detect it before it's well into its standoff missile range. Only platform to challenge it, is going to be other supersonic aircraft. There is no other way. And unless the said aircraft is technologically on par with it, it will be as if that aircraft doesn't exist. That's why I've been going on and on about the budget issue.Previously we did somewhat detailed examination of F-35's RCS based on available data. We tried to figure out how SIPER would hold up against a F-35.
(ERIS has a detection range of 470km against targets with 1m RCS)
Here is the main article.
F-35A Radar scattering simulation
Introduction F-35 is the backbone of American stealth fighter fleet, it is intended to replace F-16, F-18C/D, Harrier and A-10. There are currently 3 versions of F-35 which are F-35A, F-35B and F-3…basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com
TOYGUN is not similar to EOTS.
It has a range of 35km, and F-35's old EOTS (Not block-4) has range in excess of 45 miles.
You see TOYGUN is a FLIR only.
While EOTS combines both FLIR and IRST in one.
However, that is why for A2A applications TFX has independent KARAT IRST.
True. (But it would be interested to see if they can pull off the desired result within current budget)
More or less I agree. However, if your concerns is Greece then I have to say, they are unlikely to risk their limited numbers of F-35s against TurAF in short brust of tactical skirmishes.
No classified info obviously, this isn't the War Thunder forums haha.. But if we need to make sure it can stand its ground against the most advanced airframe in history we need to make sure it's developed up to the task, quality is the primary factor we have to aim for not the export potential. We can't make do with simply "decent" solutions like JF-17 here.KAAN will have a comparable frontal RCS to F-22. I can't disclose the details but we are at a very good point in both RAM paint, RAM coating, and auxiliary items like RAM putty. The geometry of the aircraft and production quality already speaks for itself.
If you read some scientific papers released by known Turkish scientists who work in this field and follow earlier projects like the Maske series of projects, Aselsans studies, and Turkish institutes working on the matter you can deduce a good picture. We are giving a lot of clues to intelligence assets some of which are I think unhealthy to discuss here.I read your analysis on F-35 RCS and EIRS detection range, and I agree with your sentiment. F-35 has rendered all SAM systems virtually obsolete, it's simply just too late for these systems to detect it before it's well into its standoff missile range. Only platform to challenge it, is going to be other supersonic aircraft. There is no other way. And unless the said aircraft is technologically on par with it, it will be as if that aircraft doesn't exist. That's why I've been going on and on about the budget issue.
As for your statement about how it would be "interesting" to see it done with less than ideal budget, I'd rather say "catastrophic". Enemy stealth fighters don't care about your jingoist "oh it's cheap but it'll get the job done, sure it's crap compared to F-35 but it's ours!". An inferior fighter will be detected and shot out of the sky before it even knows what happened to it, and it will be as if it wasn't produced at all. And then the superior fighter, with greater budget, will continue on to strike all your assets with IMPUNITY, causing hundreds of billions of dollars of damage that you thought you saved up by cheaping out on your stealth fighter. All your tanks, helicopters, turboprop drones, surface vessels etc. will be sitting ducks.
This is why the KAAN project is the single most important project there is, alongside it's BVRAAM missiles. Gökdoğan's range is insufficient compared to Meteor and must be addressed as well.
The idea that our products are cheaper but inferior to US counterparts may work for A2G drones, Hurjet, helicopters, tanks and so on and so forth for their export potential yada yada, but not with this.
If our TOYGUN/KARAT has inferior range compared to the AN/AAQ-40, and the engines IR signature worse to F135, it cannot be shrugged off like oh well whatever. These issues must be, and can only be solved by ample investment into the project. Until our solutions are on par with these. No other way.
No classified info obviously, this isn't the War Thunder forums haha.. But if we need to make sure it can stand its ground against the most advanced airframe in history we need to make sure it's developed up to the task, quality is the primary factor we have to aim for not the export potential. We can't make do with simply "decent" solutions like JF-17 here.
Can we say that countermeasures for F-35 are in the works? Because if Greeks thought for a second that they can dominate airspace, they would attack without hesitation, westerners would fabricate excuses and cheer them on. I would like to believe that our people are working towards a solid countermeasure other than destroying airfields.If you read some scientific papers released by known Turkish scientists who work in this field and follow earlier projects like the Maske series of projects, Aselsans studies, and Turkish institutes working on the matter you can deduce a good picture. We are giving a lot of clues to intelligence assets some of which are I think unhealthy to discuss here.
T. Kotil said it can be easy rate up to 4 jets per month.I think if KAAN finds large export orders the production date should be increased to 3 or 4 per months in order to not have long lead times
That means doubling the production rate of every subcomponent of the aircraft. So there are many companies involved.T. Kotil said it can be easy rate up to 4 jets per month.
Even today Greek AF has capacity to sudden and deadly attack if they dare to strike first, let alone with F35. But there is a big question, then what will happen next? War is not such a thing like stone vs stone. There are countless variables. What will happen their precious islands and infrastructure, their navy and airports? I am not saying F35 is not a threat obviously, but they are not coming until 2028 and if you must compare Air forces in 2028 (stone vs stone) nonetheless, please get our secondary Airforce (I mean UCAVs) into account. Because in 5 years UCAVs, particularly Kızılelma and Anka3 have potential to change the whole gameCan we say that countermeasures for F-35 are in the works? Because if Greeks thought for a second that they can dominate airspace, they would attack without hesitation, westerners would fabricate excuses and cheer them on. I would like to believe that our people are working towards a solid countermeasure other than destroying airfields.
I guess that all their Airbases would be hit with turkish SRBMs and bombed back to stone age. TSK has very likely a lot SRBMs by now.But there is a big question, then what will happen next?
That's where you're wrong.However, if your concern is Greece then I have to say, they are unlikely to risk their limited numbers of F-35s against TurAF in short brust of tactical skirmishes.
- Even with Ballistic missile its hard work because greece have 40 civil airbase and some 10 airforce ones .I guess that all their Airbases would be hit with turkish SRBMs and bombed back to stone age. TSK has very likely a lot SRBMs by now.
But that is not the topic of this thread.
You don't have to constantly bomb runways. You take out the runways 1st, and then you destroy the aircraft.- Even with Ballistic missile its hard work because greece have 40 civil airbase and some 10 airforce ones .
If we take into account 20 missiles to take down 1 airbase if greece use total 30 airbases that mean it needs 600 pinpoint missiles that Turkiye have them no problem, but airbases runways can be repaired for just few days So Turkiye needs every week to use 400 missiles to destroy airfileds and greek airplanes will be impossible to function .
From all those attacks more than half of greek airplanes will aslo destroyed .
So even if Greek attacks first and destroy half of Turkish airforce , Turkiye can hit back and do the same if have 10k ballistic missiles .
The war is complex and other weapons can play their role like steth Anka 3 ,kizilelma or Koral EW
I understand your point, but thinking Greeks are rational actors would be a false assumption. Now we have such bad relations, think of how worse it will get after the coming economic crisis and refugee situation that will be way worse. And we will search for gas in the Mediterranean.Even today Greek AF has capacity to sudden and deadly attack if they dare to strike first, let alone with F35. But there is a big question, then what will happen next? War is not such a thing like stone vs stone. There are countless variables. What will happen their precious islands and infrastructure, their navy and airports? I am not saying F35 is not a threat obviously, but they are not coming until 2028 and if you must compare Air forces in 2028 (stone vs stone) nonetheless, please get our secondary Airforce (I mean UCAVs) into account. Because in 5 years UCAVs, particularly Kızılelma and Anka3 have potential to change the whole game
They sent those to Ukraine.Don’t underestimate the S300 in Crete either.
That was my point TBH. You don't hunt the runways forever. You take down the runways, and immediately go after the airplane hangars while they are busy fixing those. If done correctly, those runways would have no planes to facilitate any take-offs. Mission accomplished.SRBM damage on runways can be easily repaired. Multiple Cruise missile bomb damage did not take out Syrian air strip out of action for long. Even specially built runway bombs like BLU-107 Durandal which lands on runways in clusters and destroys it in multiple places can be repaired.
No runways no planes no SCALP.Their Scalp missiles will inflict heavy damage on our infra structure.