TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Strong AI]

No F-35, no problem, as Turkey's fifth-generation fighter jet takes off

Turkey was expelled from the American F-35 fighter jet programme after it acquired Russian air defence technology.

www.forces.net

 

[Lool]

A mistake that should not happen for any cost

It depends by what he actually means by "joining" the program

If Saudi Arabia wants to be a financial source to the KAAN program in exchange for gaining priviliges like cheaper sale prices, bigger discounts, and priorities to Saudi Orders compared to other countries, then I actually support the notion. KAAN program is undoubtedly expensive and costed and will still cost a looot; thus, having Saudi Arabia bearing a major chunk of the financial side for a bit of minor priviliges is a good deal for both sides

However, if Saudi Arabia wants to be involved in the Technology and Know-hows of building KAAN, then the onky answer is the middle finger tbh. The acquired tech and know-how is a result of suffering and embargoes for tens of years that Turkey should never even sell it to other nations

Maybe @TheInsider can clarify more regarding the "extent" to which the Saudis wanna be involved in the program

 

[Merzifonlu]

If Saudis give us money (a lot of money) for TF-35000, then welcome for me.

In return, they may have a share in the IP rights of the engine and the production of some of its parts. This will be a big gain for them in the long run.

 

[Zafer]

It depends by what he actually means by "joining" the program

If Saudi Arabia wants to be a financial source to the KAAN program in exchange for gaining priviliges like cheaper sale prices, bigger discounts, and priorities to Saudi Orders compared to other countries, then I actually support the notion. KAAN program is undoubtedly expensive and costed and will still cost a looot; thus, having Saudi Arabia bearing a major chunk of the financial side for a bit of minor priviliges is a good deal for both sides

However, if Saudi Arabia wants to be involved in the Technology and Know-hows of building KAAN, then the onky answer is the middle finger tbh. The acquired tech and know-how is a result of suffering and embargoes for tens of years that Turkey should never even sell it to other nations

Maybe @TheInsider can clarify more regarding the "extent" to which the Saudis wanna be involved in the program

Saudi Arabia can make parts of the plane if they like, if they want to get involved in plane parts making, similar to domestic subcontractors in Türkiye. This maybe a prestige issue for the KSA public as they want to be an industrialized country. If this is a selling point I don't see why not. Or they can even develop their own weapons for the plane or sensors and bring up suggestions to customize and upgrade the plane. TAI have offices in Pakistan, Malaysia and maybe other countries, why not one in the KSA. I am all positive.

 

[Rodeo]

If Saudis give us money (a lot of money) for TF-35000, then welcome for me.

In return, they may have a share in the IP rights of the engine and the production of some of its parts. This will be a big gain for them in the long run.

It would accelerate TF35K, without which they would have no way of getting their hands on KAAN, for sure.

 

[TR_123456]

There is nothing wrong with KSA joining the project,we need economicly strong partners.
I believe the UAE also wants to join the projects which means the GCC will be involved.
As someone already predicted,the Muslim Fighter Jet attracts many countries,especially Black African countries(people keep forgetting the potential of Africa).
We can even form a consortium in the future.

@Cabatli_TR @Yasar_TR @Mis_TR_Like @Test7 ?

 

[_Mu_]

Saudis want to be a part of the Kaan project.

If true, that would be great news for the project. It will undoubtedly accelerate the entire timeline, open up more markets, and secure resources for KAAN's next-generation successor. Türkiye is not China, which can independently create a large market by itself for such a sophisticated and sustainable expensive supply chain. And it's important to note that Azerbaijan or even Qatar are not large enough, and Pakistan is not wealthy enough

Securing this opportunity will open more cooperation in other areas too; for example, Altay and the list will continue. Importantly, it will open up more markets. Just Google how the Rafale market share was non-existent and suddenly skyrocketed after the first few deals.

Here are some quotes from the 2023 military balance I read recently in Saudi Arabia setion:

• Economic recovery in Saudi Arabia and other oil exporters, along with the rise in oil prices in 2022, may enable increased investment over the next few years. In October 2022, Saudi Arabia announced plans to boost public spending by 18% in 2023.
• Currently, there is only a modest domestic defense-industrial base, mainly focused on the assembly and overhaul of land systems. However, Riyadh continues to reaffirm and pursue an intention to spend 50% of its defense outlays locally as part of its Vision 2030 initiative. They have also established the state-owned Saudi Arabian Military Industries to oversee local defense production.

Being part of the project does not necessarily mean there is full technology transfer and know-how. Let's take a look at the F-35 model and it's not the only one.

They have three levels of international participation, reflecting the financial stake in the program, the amount of technology transfer, and subcontracts open for bid by national companies. The order in which countries can obtain production aircraft is also considered.

Overall, this would be a normal process and still a huge gain, in my opinion

 

[Zafer]

There is nothing wrong with KSA joining the project,we need economicly strong partners.
I believe the UAE also wants to join the projects which means the GCC will be involved.
As someone already predicted,the Muslim Fighter Jet attracts many countries,especially Black African countries(people keep forgetting the potential of Africa).
We can even form a consortium in the future.

@Cabatli_TR @Yasar_TR @Mis_TR_Like @Test7 ?

Afrika needs drones and smaller planes to counter terrorism.

 

[Oublious]

Looks like KSA is going for full run to Turkish toys, Kaan is 1 of them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762414183927173547

 

[Cabatli_TR]

There is nothing wrong with KSA joining the project,we need economicly strong partners.
I believe the UAE also wants to join the projects which means the GCC will be involved.
As someone already predicted,the Muslim Fighter Jet attracts many countries,especially Black African countries(people keep forgetting the potential of Africa).
We can even form a consortium in the future.

@Cabatli_TR @Yasar_TR @Mis_TR_Like @Test7 ?

The countries of Gulf are in competition among themselves and this competition often leads to a harmless power struggle. Although KSA is the leading country position in their geography in terms of territory and population, UAE with its investments and active foreign policy can overtake the Saudis in some areas and refuses to be a "good boy" for KSA. Therefore, I cant say that kings of two brother countries like each other very much. In this way, a step taken by Saudis regarding KAAN will have a domino effect and many Arab countries will be interested in KAAN. Especially if UAE's interest in KF21 develops at similar times with KAAN of Saudis, I think that KAAN which made its first flight with more ambitious targets than KF21, which was developed not to compete with F35, will puzzle UAE mind and they may turn their course to the KAAN. If we include Qatar which is a friend of Turkiye in this race, it is difficult to predict how many billion $ doors the possible sale of Saudi Arabia can open.

Saudis has also signed an agreement for production of Gokbey helicopter. KSA's interest in the production of Turkish products will greatly increase UAE's appetite for Turkish products. I think we will see what all these developments/interests will bring in the coming years.

 

[Ahmetpttk]

Looks like KSA is going for full run to Turkish toys, Kaan is 1 of them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762414183927173547

I wouldn't sell Kaan tp any country other than Azerbaijan. Maybe we can sell downgraded, monkey version to other countries.

 

[Huelague]

Saudi Arabia can make parts of the plane if they like, if they want to get involved in plane parts making, similar to domestic subcontractors in Türkiye. This maybe a prestige issue for the KSA public as they want to be an industrialized country. If this is a selling point I don't see why not. Or they can even develop their own weapons for the plane or sensors and bring up suggestions to customize and upgrade the plane. TAI have offices in Pakistan, Malaysia and maybe other countries, why not one in the KSA. I am all positive.

What is the labour cost in S.A?

 

[Huelague]

I wouldn't sell Kaan tp any country other than Azerbaijan. Maybe we can sell downgraded, monkey version to other countries.

It is clear that KAAN must/can be, the backbone of Turkic Union Airforce.

 

[Bogeyman]

The countries of Gulf are in competition among themselves and this competition often leads to a harmless power struggle. Although KSA is the leading country position in their geography in terms of territory and population, UAE with its investments and active foreign policy can overtake the Saudis in some areas and refuses to be a "good boy" for KSA. Therefore, I cant say that kings of two brother countries like each other very much. In this way, a step taken by Saudis regarding KAAN will have a domino effect and many Arab countries will be interested in KAAN. Especially if UAE's interest in KF21 develops at similar times with KAAN of Saudis, I think that KAAN which made its first flight with more ambitious targets than KF21, which was developed not to compete with F35, will puzzle UAE mind and they may turn their course to the KAAN. If we include Qatar which is a friend of Turkiye in this race, it is difficult to predict how many billion $ doors the possible sale of Saudi Arabia can open.

Saudis has also signed an agreement for production of Gokbey helicopter. KSA's interest in the production of Turkish products will greatly increase UAE's appetite for Turkish products. I think we will see what all these developments/interests will bring in the coming years.

In the live broadcast about Kaan's flight, Kadir Doğan said that he heard from the general managers of the defense companies he met that the UAE was seriously considering becoming a partner in the MMU project.

 

[Oublious]

I wouldn't sell Kaan tp any country other than Azerbaijan. Maybe we can sell downgraded, monkey version to other countries.

I think the same about a monkey model for them, after what they did against us they are everything but strategic partners.

 

[Quasar]

-İn any case we should build a very similer logistic system like F 35 for KAAN to keep any exported KAAN under constant control and sure for the economic gains of such a logistic system

-we should have strict rules for the armement of KAAN we have exported ...

- local production of certain parts of KAAN is exceptable

- TF 10000 and TF 35000 is open for selling to the projects of friendly countries

 

[_Mu_]

The countries of Gulf are in competition among themselves and this competition often leads to a harmless power struggle.

There is another interesting analysis made by Peter Zeihan when he highlights possible power dynamics in the Middle East after the anticipated American withdrawal, with Turkiye as the most dominant regional power but it has many areas of interest and cannot fully focus on the Middle East. Then followed by Saudi Arabia and Iran, both of which we know...,
Given this context, He suggests the most likely scenario would be Israel partnering with Saudi Arabia to counter Iran .

Would this deals suggest a different scenario? we will see

 

[Heartbang]

There is another interesting analysis made by Peter Zeihan when he highlights possible power dynamics in the Middle East after the anticipated American withdrawal, with Turkiye as the most dominant regional power but it has many areas of interest and cannot fully focus on the Middle East. Then followed by Saudi Arabia and Iran, both of which we know...,
Given this context, He suggests the most likely scenario would be Israel partnering with Saudi Arabia to counter Iran .

Would this deals suggest a different scenario? we will see

Take Zeihan's takes on Turkiye with a pinch of salt.

Its wonky at best.

 

[Zafer]

What is the labour cost in S.A?

High tech jobs require fewer workers, they can pay well and it won't hurt.
10 million out of 35 million population are foreign workers.

 

[Helmuth von Moltke]

Saudis want to be a part of the Kaan project.

Perhaps there could be a BMC type deal.