TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Bogeyman]

When you talk about Pakistan, you mean a country ready to shed its blood with us in Cyprus. The effort of the people of this country to spend their friends is exemplary. Fortunately, this country is not governed by the opinions of certain friends in this forum.

 

[Numberone]

I am getting sick of these 'ummah' loving people. The only positive thing about Turkey is the defense industry and they are going to fuck up this industry aswell. Pakistan is not our brother country nor do we have anything common with them. They will not bring any benefits to this project but only EMBARGOES!

 

[cr33pt3d]

I see no problem adding Pakistan to Kaan, i don't think we will let anyone access sensitive stuff, most probably some parts could be built elsewhere, the only problem i have is the money, they are in a worst economic situation than us, what kind of money can they put on the table ? we will probably need to put a credit line to make them partners. what is the point? they are already heavily invested with china , because china lend the money, but we can't.
unless some of the gulf countries join the party, it's gonna be difficult.
let's suppose first planes cost 100M$ - 130M$ per plane, how quick can we add those to inventory, let's assume 2 plane par month that means 24 a year something between 2.4B$ to 3.1B$ a year.
There is TF2000 on agenda, SIPER in big numbers, something around the 10 - 14 batteries, next Drone LHD, Altay etc ....
i will stop here because we have a shitload off stuff that needs to enter inventory. we need people with money, no broke partners .

 

[Bürküt]

On the fact that China can do what ever it wants with Pakistan. Remember that we’re talking about the Chinese. Their eagerness to copy, steal, and learn foreign critical tech is well known, they’re not even hiding it. Will be a good opportunity for them if they can get their hands on Kaan for sure.

Just looking at what they did to get training from western pilots is enough.

Avustralya, Çinli savaş pilotlarını eğiten İngiliz subayların peşinde

Avustralya’da emekli İngiliz savaş pilotlarının yüksek ücretler karşılığında Çin Hava Kuvvetleri personelini eğittiği yolundaki suçlamalarla ilgili bir İngiliz eğitim pilotunun evine baskın düzenlediği ortaya çıktı

tr.euronews.com

İngiliz pilotlar Batı savaş uçaklarını alt etmek için Çinli pilotları eğitiyor

Çin, Silahlı Kuvvetlerine Batı savaş uçaklarını ve helikopterlerini “İngiltere'nin çıkarlarına yönelik bir tehdit” olarak nasıl yeneceğini öğretmek için düzinelerce eski İngiliz askeri pilotunu işe aldı.

gdh.digital

Eski ABD pilotu Çin pilotlarına eğitim vermekle suçlanıyor

Avustralya'da tutuklanan eski ABD Deniz Piyadeleri pilotu Daniel Duggan, yasa dışı şekilde Çin askeri pilotlarına uçak gemilerine iniş yapmak dahil deniz havacılığı eğitimi vermek suçundan yargılanacak.

www.trthaber.com

 

[Merzifonlu]

There is another possibility. Let's say the GE F110 engines did not come, for our Kaan block 10s. Then, until the TEI TF 35000 engine is finished, we will host the planes produced by Pakistan with Chinese engines equivalent to F110. The planes are Pakistani and the pilots are Pakistani, just like on Qatari planes.

 

[Radko]

All aircraft delivered to TurAF for the first batch -apart from prototypes- will be Block 10s, not 0

 

[Merzifonlu]

All aircraft delivered to TurAF for the first batch -apart from prototypes- will be Block 10s, not 0

Thanks, I corrected it.

 

[B_A]

I see no problem adding Pakistan to Kaan, i don't think we will let anyone access sensitive stuff, most probably some parts could be built elsewhere, the only problem i have is the money, they are in a worst economic situation than us, what kind of money can they put on the table ? we will probably need to put a credit line to make them partners. what is the point? they are already heavily invested with china , because china lend the money, but we can't.
unless some of the gulf countries join the party, it's gonna be difficult.
let's suppose first planes cost 100M$ - 130M$ per plane, how quick can we add those to inventory, let's assume 2 plane par month that means 24 a year something between 2.4B$ to 3.1B$ a year.
There is TF2000 on agenda, SIPER in big numbers, something around the 10 - 14 batteries, next Drone LHD, Altay etc ....
i will stop here because we have a shitload off stuff that needs to enter inventory. we need people with money, no broke partners .

Didnt pakistan had the arab money to buy plane?How did they pay our T-129 and Ada class before?

 

[cr33pt3d]

Didnt pakistan had the arab money to buy plane?How did they pay our T-129 and Ada class before?

i dont' think there is any payment for t129 , i don't know the details of the milgem contract. i know that they received 3B$ from China and 2.5B$ from saudis recently, don't think it's for military purchase.

 

[No Name]

It isn't clear whether or not they are going to operate the KAAN fighter anytime soon or not, Their entry into the project may be more about creating an off-shore supply chain to offset the cost rather than a sale.

As for the risk of advanced Turkish tech getting into the Chinese hand. It Is possible that a less capable version (-5th gen fighter) is sold to Pakistan which is not an uncommon practice in fighter sales, in fact, the US was going to sell a less advance version of the F35 to the UAE.

 

[Afif]

It isn't clear whether or not they are going to operate the KAAN fighter anytime soon or not, Their entry into the project may be more about creating an off-shore supply chain to offset the cost rather than a sale.

As for the risk of advanced Turkish tech getting into the Chinese hand. It Is possible that a less capable version (-5th gen fighter) is sold to Pakistan which is not an uncommon practice in fighter sales, in fact, the US was going to sell a less advance version of the F35 to the UAE.

Well, if it becomes too 'less', they may turn toward PRC. (Which likely to offer J-35)

Remember, nothing is final yet.

 

[B_A]

i dont' think there is any payment for t129 , i don't know the details of the milgem contract. i know that they received 3B$ from China and 2.5B$ from saudis recently, don't think it's for military purchase.

I know finally they didn’t pay the T-129 but in case we sell them how will they pay back the 1.5billion usd?

 

[cr33pt3d]

I know finally they didn’t pay the T-129 but in case we sell them how will they pay back the 1.5billion usd?

probably loan from EximBank, at least that how it's done in every arm exporting countries.

 

[Heartbang]

Pakistan is not our brother country nor do we have anything common with them.

A-duh. You dutch are a world apart indeed.

 

[TheInsider]

Pakistan can't contribute with money, can't contribute with expertise/tech. We can always hire Pakistani engineers if need be no need to make them a partner. Pakistan can contribute with low production costs for some low-tech structural parts but again Turkiye doesn't need to make Pakistan a partner for this.

Here is my offer. We should give them an industrial work package that benefits us and keep the costs in check. This way Pakistan will also earn some money. Turkiye should also offer the right to priority purchase after Turkiye. This way Pakistan will have access to a 5th gen air superiority platform in the 2030s and we should sell those two little things big. Initially, Pakistan will order a small amount of Kaan anyway.

Azerbaijan can contribute with money and people shouldn't forget that we signed and ratified Shusha Declaration 2 states are officially allies of the closest kind. We will have a single airspace in the future.

 

[Rooxbar]

I think all of this is just an sensationalist overreaction. We don't know the terms of agreement and speculations about how the Chinese wholesale own Pakistan as a country is a childish oversimplification. China does try to get its hands on info on critical projects via espionage and they're really good at it, but we have no idea what we're offering Pakistan to be able to conclude that it is worth stealing. Azerbaijan, Pakistan and any other country will have things to contribute to KAAN (if Lockheed Martin can use the helping hand of Norway and Denmark, we can use the helping hand of even 5 million strong nations, and this can happen via outsourcing of bulk manufacturing of less significant parts, and that's only one example, apart from other countries being able to help in procuring raw materials, which can have huge bottlenecks.)

But I do understand why this overreaction exists. Pakistan is not in a good condition, and many don't trust our bureaucracy to be competent enough to think of and put in place the required protections against espionage from the Chinese, and we can't also be sure that our foreign relations bureaucrats have gotten the explicit green light from U.S. in terms of further engine procurement in case of Pakistani involvement. Heck, I don't even know if this news will come as a complete surprise to Americans or not.

Also, you can have your critical opinions of Pakistani immigrants (which I share also), but understand that on a sentimental and idealized level there's this idea of friendship (among Pakistanis looking from afar at Turkey) that you could at least try to keep the illusion of, but it does worry me that we are making all of the influential diaspora lobbies of U.S. unite in their enmity of Turkey. Like why should we create an atmosphere and an image in India's mind for them to see it necessary to come and do military exercises with Greece for god's sake. Like there should have been no reason for that.

 

[Xenon54]

I was so optimistic for this project after the recent developments but they once again managed to kill those hopes...

Well, back to square one, dont follow, just be happy if something good comes out of it, if anything comes out of it that is...

Congrats to Pakistan for findig a clever way to pay China their debts.

 

[Heartbang]

We should give them an industrial work package that benefits us and keep the costs in check. This way Pakistan will also earn some money. Turkiye should also offer the right to priority purchase after Turkiye.

They should share some nuclear expertise in return if you catch my drift.

 

[Heartbang]

but it does worry me that we are making all of the influential diaspora lobbies of U.S. unite in their enmity of Turkey. Like why should we create an atmosphere and an image in India's mind for them to see it necessary to come and do military exercises with Greece for god's sake. Like there should have been no reason for that.

Also having the Indian lobby on board won't make much of a difference. The damage enacted upon via diasporas are already as big as it is.

As for the Indian Navy, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[cr33pt3d]

They should share some nuclear expertise in return if you catch my drift.

I always thought that we don't need Pakistani help on that matter, i guess if needed we can develop such weapons, even more when i look at the CENK etc. the only issue with Pakistani Nukes is the payload is rather modest compared to others between 5-40 KT.

Pakistani Nuclear Forces

www.atomicarchive.com