TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Radko]

If we don't see KAAN on the runway in a couple of days then it's highly unlikely for it to make its first flight this year.

It is unlikely that we will ever see those taxi tests before the first flight

 

[godel44]

Do they really make the first flight on the given day? I would do it earlier on for both Kaan and ANKA-3 privately. Maybe they will do so as well and just not publicize.

 

[MADDOG]

Do they really make the first flight on the given day? I would do it earlier on for both Kaan and ANKA-3 privately. Maybe they will do so as well and just not publicize.

Could happen a day or two earlier, or later.

 

[Ecderha]

Things evolve on ground

This here just for compare

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729217700432372078

Greek media began to fear that the British would send Rolls-Royce engines for the Kaan project.
Recently, the British gave a special blank check to British companies for the MMU project. Let's wish good luck to Rolls-Royce engines in the Kaan project.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6544bdc01f1a60000d360d49/Open-General-Export-Licence-Exports-in-Support-of-Turkish-Aerospace-Industries-_TAI_-TF-X-Programme.pdf

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729217700432372078

Greek media began to fear that the British would send Rolls-Royce engines for the Kaan project.
Recently, the British gave a special blank check to British companies for the MMU project. Let's wish good luck to Rolls-Royce engines in the Kaan project.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6544bdc01f1a60000d360d49/Open-General-Export-Licence-Exports-in-Support-of-Turkish-Aerospace-Industries-_TAI_-TF-X-Programme.pdf

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729225816972882303

The British Prime Minister canceled the press conference with the Greek Prime Minister at the last minute. Greece and British tensions are growing.

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729217700432372078

Greek media began to fear that the British would send Rolls-Royce engines for the Kaan project.
Recently, the British gave a special blank check to British companies for the MMU project. Let's wish good luck to Rolls-Royce engines in the Kaan project.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6544bdc01f1a60000d360d49/Open-General-Export-Licence-Exports-in-Support-of-Turkish-Aerospace-Industries-_TAI_-TF-X-Programme.pdf

What they should really be scared of is that if right wingers keep winning elections more "Brexit"s will happen and they'll be up the shit creek without a paddle and a 300 billion euros of debt

On the subject of engines, would we even be able to use any of RR's engine in Kaan or Hürjet? Wouldn't dimensions be a problem?

 

[Bogeyman]

What they should really be scared of is that if right wingers keep winning elections more "Brexit"s will happen and they'll be up the shit creek without a paddle and a 300 billion euros of debt

On the subject of engines, would we even be able to use any of RR's engine in Kaan or Hürjet? Wouldn't dimensions be a problem?

In any case, the design of the aircraft will need to be comprehensively overhauled before we can use the engines on Kaan.

 

[Spitfire9]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729217700432372078

Greek media began to fear that the British would send Rolls-Royce engines for the Kaan project.
Recently, the British gave a special blank check to British companies for the MMU project. Let's wish good luck to Rolls-Royce engines in the Kaan project.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6544bdc01f1a60000d360d49/Open-General-Export-Licence-Exports-in-Support-of-Turkish-Aerospace-Industries-_TAI_-TF-X-Programme.pdf

Yes, British companies can export goods etc for the KAAN but RR does not have a suitable engine. If Turkiye wanted to de-risk and accelerate TF35K development now would be a good time to call on RR's design know how.

 

[Bogeyman]

Yes, British companies can export goods etc for the KAAN but RR does not have a suitable engine. If Turkiye wanted to de-risk and accelerate TF35K development now would be a good time to call on RR's design know how.

We say Rolls-Royce engine, but the technical details of the agreement remain in the dark. So for now we can only speculate that an "agreement" has been reached. I guess we will continue to wait for details.

 

[MhhJA]

Greek media began to fear that the British would send Rolls-Royce engines for the Kaan project.
Recently, the British gave a special blank check to British companies for the MMU project. Let's wish good luck to Rolls-Royce engines in the Kaan project.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...Aerospace-Industries-_TAI_-TF-X-Programme.pdf

If someone is interested in the details of the export control list, you can look it up here:

The Export Control Order 2008

This Order consolidates Orders made under the Export Control Act 2002, with some changes. As a consequence the Export of Goods, Transfer of Technology and Provision of Technical Assistance (Control) Order 2003, the Trade in Goods (Control) Order 2003, the Trade in Controlled Goods (Embargoed...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729225816972882303

The British Prime Minister canceled the press conference with the Greek Prime Minister at the last minute. Greece and British tensions are growing.

constantly trying to shut us down in the west is basically exposing greece as a hostile and open enemy. A time will come when they will have to be dealt with just like they were dealt with in 1974.

we can't keep allowing these transgressions to go unanswered indefinitely.

As for the British since the Americans are playing bad cop they will play good cop.

 

[Bogeyman]

constantly trying to shut us down in the west is basically exposing greece as a hostile and open enemy. A time will come when they will have to be dealt with just like they were dealt with in 1974.

we can't keep allowing these transgressions to go unanswered indefinitely.

As for the British since the Americans are playing bad cop they will play good cop.

If the British had not acted as good cops, Turkey would have had to buy Russian warplanes empty and equip them themselves. But now there is still hope to stay in NATO.

 

[GoatsMilk]

If the British had not acted as good cops, Turkey would have had to buy Russian warplanes empty and equip them themselves. But now there is still hope to stay in NATO.

of course thats the game in play. Its too soon for them to see us join the other side due to their transgressions. Ideally they want to hinder us, stagnant us, fool us for as long as it possibly takes for them to build our enemies up to where they can stand on their own two feet. Isreal for one isnt secure enough yet for Turkiye to become allies with Iran.

Because if tomorrow it hits that point that nato wont sell us fighter jets or engines, makes no sense anymore to remain in NATO. Forces us to look east. And once you make that switch there is no easy way back if ever.

Turkiye leaving NATO will start a chain reaction in the middle east, eastern europe, the balkans and the caucses, maybe even north africa too.

Turks must always understand that under the FIVE EYES alliance the USA/UK coordinate their strategy against 3rd nations.

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729225816972882303

The British Prime Minister canceled the press conference with the Greek Prime Minister at the last minute. Greece and British tensions are growing.

Created a real political crisis out of those marbles. This has been brewing for years. British point on this is clear, they don't let go of anything. Greeks are right on this. Parthenon marbles should return. This is actually one of few venues where Turkey and Greece both see eye to eye. Brits have many, many historical artifacts in British Museum that should return to their homes.

So for now we can only speculate that an "agreement" has been reached.

Has it? Export control relaxations are not directly a sign of a deal. I think it's fair to say that it is still very much in progress. In the past, IP issues and third party countries being part of the program stopped the RR Kale partnership. Hope they are solved, but can't say they are indeed solved just yet.

 

[Bogeyman]

Created a real political crisis out of those marbles. This has been brewing for years. British point on this is clear, they don't let go of anything. Greeks are right on this. Parthenon marbles should return. This is actually one of few venues where Turkey and Greece both see eye to eye. Brits have many, many historical artifacts in British Museum that should return to their homes.


Has it? Export control relaxations are not directly a sign of a deal. I think it's fair to say that it is still very much in progress. In the past, IP issues and third party countries being part of the program stopped the RR Kale partnership. Hope they are solved, but can't say they are indeed solved just yet.

The RR partnership was about exporting the engine to third countries. If we are not going to export, I do not think there is a problem at the first stage. We do not yet have a guaranteed background even to add it to the Turkish Air Force inventory. Let's ensure ourselves first. We'll think about it later. In the worst-case scenario, other partners wait for the national engine.

 

[Spitfire9]

Export control relaxations are not directly a sign of a deal. I think it's fair to say that it is still very much in progress. In the past, IP issues and third party countries being part of the program stopped the RR Kale partnership. Hope they are solved, but can't say they are indeed solved just yet.

RR has a lot of knowledge but I think that the military R&D they do is funded by various governments. Can RR use the knowledge so gained in other projects? I don't know but they could certainly bring immense experience in design and development to a 35,000 lb thrust fast jet engine project. After all they worked with GE on the 'back up' F136 engine for the F-35 and in the Advent adaptive cycle research project. They also lead engine design for the GCAP although the nature of the engine they are designing is not knowledge in the public domain.

If RR were to get involved alongside Kale, would it be for an entirely new engine design or an engine based on a Kale design? I presume RR involvement would spell the end of any thoughts of developing an engine based on the TF6000 engine.

Has this sudden interest in RR in this thread been prompted by the cancellation of the Greek PM's meeting with the UK PM?

 

[Sanchez]

The RR partnership was about exporting the engine to third countries. If we are not going to export, I do not think there is a problem at the first stage. We do not yet have a guaranteed background even to add it to the Turkish Air Force inventory. Let's ensure ourselves first. We'll think about it later. In the worst-case scenario, other partners wait for the national engine.

Totally. For one, let's not talk tout selling Kaan to Pakistan before the damn thing is even flying.

If RR were to get involved alongside Kale, would it be for an entirely new engine design or an engine based on a Kale design? I presume RR involvement would spell the end of any thoughts of developing an engine based on the TF6000 engine.

None of this is yet really clear tbh. No matter what is the outcome, TEI will be a big part of the development of the engine. Whether it's by itself or via TRMotor with Kale, which TEI now owns 100%, unlike how it started with Qatari shared BMC. If this works, it'll be probably be a wholly joint venture between RR, PW(via Kale), TEI and Kale and we'd like those IP rights please.

Has this sudden interest in RR in this thread been prompted by the cancellation of the Greek PM's meeting with the UK PM?

Not really. Possible RR involvement in the engine goes as far back as 2017, still no agreements are made. It is also possible that both Turks and Greeks are reading too much into Sunak's cancellation. Doesn't have to mean anything vis a vis UK TR relations. Marbles issue have been a big topic of contention for decades. Mitsotakis was set to meet Sunak today until he called the marbles stolen on BBC and Labour leader supported giving them back. I think this is more about internal UK politics than anything else.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Spitfire9 , Correct!
RR-GE were funded, with today’s money, around 4 billion dollars by US government to develop F-136 engine. A further 4 billion was needed to complete the project when it was put on the shelf.
They needed RR input to develop an engine that can be used in a vertical take-off and landing aircraft. (BAE Systems were used in developing the F35B’s VSTOL capable engine.)

The EJ200 engine originally designed by RR, is capable to power a Hurjet. Its dimensions are not far off to be suitable either. But as EJ200 was built as a twin engine power plant, RR or Eurojet needs to alter it so that it can be used in solitary mode.

RR’s expertise in developing turbofans can not be denied. The Pegasus power plant that was used in Harriers, in their latest form, developed 23800lbf dry thrust. Their use of modern engine development practices have yielded complete demonstrator engines in under 18 months from scratch. In partnership with GE they have developed the state of the art f136 engine that contained Blisk, CMC, additive technologies and under ADVENT design program an adaptive cycle system was considered.

RR/Kale partnership can be very fruitful, especially if they can utilise TEI production facilities as well. But as mentioned by @Bogeyman we are only contemplating about what can be. It is best to wait and see what this UK/Turkiye partnership will develop in to.

 

[Era_shield]

Things evolve on ground

View attachment 63339 This here just for compare

You should say that top one is F-22.