TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[dBSPL]

Yup exactly.

There is unmatched qualitative distillation that occurs in this forum specifically in its way. I have not seen it anywhere else online as places easily go for quantity trolling and other such things to pump up volume with fluff and any good quality folks present cant really hear themselves think in end or get distracted/wasted in those things.

To get quality you need to have very specific well curated setting.....only then a good ladder of discussion and analysis can be setup and climbed over time.

I have been following Turkish defense forums maybe more than 15 years. I know or can guess most of the members here from two or three previous forums. And I also know the periods when many people, who are now considered experts in the defense industry media today, and who are now editors of important magazines, wrote directly and regularly in these forums. One of my biggest regrets is that we have lost the database of many of these forums. I bet there were not be such detailed forum databases in any language except English. And if it still existed, it would be very valuable to compare our vision at that time with where we are now, anyway...

In the end I would like to say that what you are saying about is a filtration of years. It is a collective legacy. Defencehub's management and its members continues this legacy. As new generations of defense enthusiasts come, they will continue to build on it. So when I want to get information about the defense industry and geopolitical issues, when I want to learn something, this is where I will spend my time for the rest of my life as how I came to point. I also recommend same to everyone around me.

 

[Turkic]

I'm curious about the range of Murad and targeted range for aesa radar of Kaan. Do we know anything about these ? Also what is the estimated range for stealth detection ? What are your predictions if we don't know anything about ?

 

[Afif]

[

Chances are, this is nonsense. @Windchime @Chocopie

 

[Heartbang]

[

The author is a well-known clown. Do not bother with him.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762887086070280391

 

[Rodeo]

Chances are, this is nonsense. @Windchime @Chocopie

I know that person, Facelessman(a Korean). He has been shitposting about Turkish programs since forever. He was saying that KAAN is a paper plane and can't be flown because the prototype didn't have a pitot tube attached. A nutjub, really. He shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Chocopie]

I know that person, Facelessman(a Korean). He has been shitposting about Turkish programs since forever. He was saying that KAAN is a paper plane and can't be flown because the prototype didn't have a pitot tube attached. A nutjub, really. He shouldn't be taken seriously.

That Faceless Twitter clown isn‘t Korean at all. He‘s apparently from US/Canada & doesn‘t speak Korean besides Google translations.

Totally making up stuff and pulling crap out of his ass, hate posting against Turkish and Indian defense tech. One superb example of his expertise, red circling cable passthroughs as KF-21 weapon bays

 

[Chocopie]

Chances are, this is nonsense. @Windchime @Chocopie

That twit account is unreliable and the person ain‘t Korean.

 

[Turkic]

Thanks for showing the real face of that faceless clown.

By the way :

I'm curious about the range of Murad and targeted range for aesa radar of Kaan. Do we know anything about these ? Also what is the estimated range for stealth detection ? What are your predictions if we don't know anything about ?

Anything ?

 

[Huelague]

The author is a well-known clown. Do not bother with him.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762887086070280391

Indeed, to big and heavy. But what @MADDOG has written before, we will see some changes in size and weight of course.

 

[Khagan1923]

Well this aircraft right now is GTU-0 and not P0 or as it should be P1. It wasn't even supposed to fly. P0/1 will take flight next year. Wouldn't suprise me to already see several changes having been made to the airframe, especially to the nose and cockpit area.

GTU = Development Test Aircraft, for those who don't speak turkish.

It was always clear that we would see changes made to the airframe after data had been collected.

EDIT:

Just to show how airframes can change during development.

YF-22 "prototype" (more like demonstrator honestly)

F-22 first EMD aircraft (more likely first "real" prototype)

just focusing on the nose and cockpit area as that is a topic of discussion for many users here regarding Kaan.

 

[Afif]

Thanks for showing the real face of that faceless clown.

By the way :

Anything ?

Nobody knows for sure of course. These things are classified for a reason. But we can spaculate as defence enthusiasts.

Here is S band Chenk's range and performance.

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/CENK_ENG.pdf

Now, if Chenk consist of 4000 T/R modules (as advertised) and has a detection range of 160km against fighter size target (1m2) in S band, (according to the borchure) then I am not sure how BUFRIS with (supposedly) around 2000 T/R modules in X band would see much further. (Assuming both band's T/R modules and hardware is of same generation.) As X band has shorter waves getting weaker as it travels further and decaying faster. I refer you to other knowledgeable people around here. @Anmdt @TheInsider @Radonsider

Of course this is a very one dimensional comparison including several assumptions, but I am interested in what others has to say.

 

[blackjack]

Technologically, the West is, of course, superior to Russia. The Russians themselves admit this.
But I’m interested in keeping an eye on SU 57 and KAAN.
I won’t hide it – I keep thinking: will we be able to have a full-fledged 5th generation production aircraft before the Russians?

Man this is depressing, I provided information of what kind of specs the 1st and 2nd stage engines offered, and it was like all of that was completely ignored.

TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

defencehub.live

You need to give examples of what western engines are better than the performance specs of the Russian engines I gave all the way back to March 31st. The answer is I don't see any aircraft in service that has better performance specs than the 2nd stage.
UEC is opening up another building for production, Turkey does have an option if Russia offers that option.
https://tass.com/defense/1785563 engines received for the Su-35 offer supersonic speeds without boosters and still maintaining longer ranges that current western aircraft.

 

[uçuyorum]

Is anything about WS-15 public? I'm very surprised by the 4k hour claim. That is pretty pathetic.

China is not us. That is perfectly useable. They have no shortage of funds, they can keep producing more. They might make a 5 new model of fighters and engines before their existing ones reach 4000 hours.

 

[Zafer]

We can afford to change power turbine blades every 2000 hours let alone 4000
Test production of super-alloys developed locally have already been in the 2023 reports

 

[Afif]

Is anything about WS-15 public? I'm very surprised by the 4k hour claim. That is pretty pathetic.

Why would be pathetic? Russian AL-41F1S also has 4k hours service life. GE F414 utilized in Hornet, Super hornet, KF21, Tejas, Gripen also has 4k hours lifespan.

China is not us. That is perfectly useable. They have no shortage of funds, they can keep producing more. They might make a 5 new model of fighters and engines before their existing ones reach 4000 hours.

For TF35000, 4K service hours would be quite reasonable to begin with. Later Improvements can be introduced in stages.

 

[Iskander]

Man this is depressing, I provided information of what kind of specs the 1st and 2nd stage engines offered, and it was like all of that was completely ignored.

TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

defencehub.live

You need to give examples of what western engines are better than the performance specs of the Russian engines I gave all the way back to March 31st. The answer is I don't see any aircraft in service that has better performance specs than the 2nd stage.
UEC is opening up another building for production, Turkey does have an option if Russia offers that option.
https://tass.com/defense/1785563 engines received for the Su-35 offer supersonic speeds without boosters and still maintaining longer ranges that current western aircraft.

Dear Jack, let it be known to you that generally accepted things do not require proof.
Russian aircraft engines have a short service life compared to their Western counterparts.
The so-called second stage engine (item 3, AL 51F1) is not mass-produced. The engine refinement process continues and will last until 2027-2028.
The new SU 57 is equipped with the same unfinished engines. They install one new engine and another old on
By the way, AL51F1 is not a new product at all, but a modification of AL41F1.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Higher quality 1080p

One thing that happened to me after seeing this plane in action is how most other fighter jets when i see them now look old/dated in comparison.

 

[Yasar_TR]

During Soviet and subsequent Russian era, the jet engine technology development regarding turbine section, has been concentrated on directionally solidified turbine blade production. They have in house perfected the directionally solidified crystals to their own needs by attaining equiaxed crystals (these are crystals that have mostly axes of equal lengths.) .
By perfecting air cooling channel geometry and ceramic coatings they have managed to keep the boundary grain defects to a minimum and achieved acceptable high performance from these blades.
Directionally solidified blades are in essence layers of crystals. But due to their layered construction, under extreme heat and centrifugal forces the layers move unevenly away from each other, giving boundary grain imperfections and causing the Crystal lattices to deteriorate. Hence shorter lifecycles on engines especially if they are pushed hard too often.
Russians, according to western sources, have dabbled in Single Crystal blade manufacturing in some of their AL31 series engines. But did not get too far. AL41/AL51 series engines, according to unofficial sources may contain single crystals. But the fact remains that the Russian engines predominantly are produced with directionally solidified turbine blades.
It is also a known fact that the Russian jet engines’ combustion chambers are designed as shorter than western ones. Although this may give certain advantages, it also increases the chance of throwing out unspent fuel hence a smoke when pushed hard. (This however is less prominent in later engines). When you have a school of thought and design set on a specific way to produce your engine, it is not always feasible and workable to add new tech that works in the West. Hence may be their struggle with single crystals?
@Nilgiri may shed more light on this issue.

 

[TR_123456]

For TF35000, 4K service hours would be quite reasonable to begin with. Later Improvements can be introduced in stages.

No,either perfect or not.
Then why go for indigenous when it is inferior to the competitors(western engines)?

 

[neosinan]

No,either perfect or not.
Then why go for indigenous when it is inferior to the competitors(western engines)?

Security of Supply chain is much more important than marginally better product. No doubt. Eg: Altay