TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[IC3M@N FX]

If this is true, then does that mean that Turkey built the KAAN with its own engineers without foreign/technical support? Insane

From Temil kotil's interview
TUSAŞ General Manager Prof. Dr. Basic Cotyl:
- MMU / - KAAN -
-KAAN started in 2017-2018 in partnership with BAE Systems of the United Kingdom. -BAE Systems was going to support us with 100 engineers, but then they disappeared

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794657896275509581

Why should he lie, just to make it clear for everyone, Turkey is predominantly a Muslim country, the interpretation of religion can be moderate or strict, it doesn't matter.
Turkey has no friends and no partners apart from the Turkish and Kurdish citizens in its own country or the other Turkish peoples.
They love their country, otherwise they are surrounded and encircled by enemies, because their DNA and culture have always been such that they have to rise above themselves, as history has shown!
This in turn is a thorn in the side of other countries, including the Arabs.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Is he saying the contract with BAE wasn't realized?

Either that or they backed out in some other way. Like slow work, find excuses etc.

Just like how their embargoe aren't embargoes. Most of the time they don't say "we won't sell this or that to you", they say "you must pay 10 times the money, delivered 10 years late, for 20 years out of date tech". Just like what happened with patriots.

 

[Anmdt]

Is he saying the contract with BAE wasn't realized?

It is told elsewhere: it is materialized, but TAI didn't receive the support, know-how or expertise they have been promised (or expected) for. They rather had been assigned with engineers who are expert on the field but not specifically what TAI needed them for. On paper it worked, in practice it hasn't.

 

[boredaf]

For F-35 Wet dreamers.TFX rules!

Get a grip, it doesn't even exist yet outside of 1 prototype and that only flies because of foreign engine. Wait until we actually have production models at least before gloating ffs, there is no reason to turn to Russians or worse Iranians jerking off anything they see unveiled.

 

[hawk21]

Some of the highlights from Temel Kotil's most recent interview:

- The software packages used to develop KAAN are Abaqus, Patran, LS-DYNA, Siemens NX and Dassault PLM. The main design software used is Dassault PLM(at 22:45 in the video)

- The memory of the computer that was used to design the geometry of KAAN is over a petabyte(special attention was paid to the radar returns of the body).(26:30 in the video)

- The entire skin is composite made.

- They're making 8 prototypes of KAAN, then they will make 20 KAANs for delivery in 2028, after that they will make one more KAAN for the indigenous engines to fly in 2028.

- KAAN will have a cannon.(1:12:25)

Türkiye'nin Havacılık Vizyonu

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Prof. Dr. Temel KOTİL

www.youtube.com

This statement is a big mistake by Temel Kotil. Loose lips sink ships.

In this particular instance, he has told them exactly where to put in the backdoors.

 

[Heartbang]

This statement is a big mistake by Temel Kotil. Loose lips sink ships.

In this particular instance, he has told them exactly where to put in the backdoors.

Yes! Thank you!

 

[cr33pt3d]

those computers used in sensitive projects have no connection to the outside world. they work in closed network. most of the time depending on the sensitivity of the project those machine do not even have usb or any other external connection possibility.
they don't have wifi or Bluetooth connection and the wireless and electromagnetic spectrum is tightly monitored, to check if anything is transmitted outside. a least that how it works elsewhere , so I guess it's the same here.
so does not matter that KOTIL says that. but he should the keep it low. nobody needs to know this sh@t anyway. that's a common trend in Türkiye, people talk too much about everything. I like how the managed to close SAGE to the outside world.
just STFU and do your job. no need to show off until you want your enemies to know what capabilities you acquired, when needed.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

People don't even read/hear what exactly Mr. Kotil is talking about.... these are developer tools/software packages + design software. There was no mention of the actual operating system or flight controls, or targeting system, engine & co and any other software or applications that run in the aircraft's operating system in real time.

It's like a game developer announcing that their game XY is being developed with the Unreal Engine and being cursed for not developing on CryEngine but it has nothing to do with the game itself.

 

[Heartbang]

these are developer tools/software packages + design software.

Much worse. That means they have an innate understanding of our KAAN's design characteristics.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Much worse. That means they have an innate understanding of our KAAN's design characteristics.

I don't want to be disrespectful, but should Turkey pull the developer tools out of its ass? Do you know how long it takes to make developer tools to develop the actual software that you really want and need?
First you have to know what you need, which is the hardest part, so we have a chicken <-> egg problem.
With all due respect to my country and our armed forces, if that bothers you, then we should have developed our own development environment from the beginning, but to do that you would have to know what an aircraft needs and since we have never developed aircraft in the last 30-40, we also have no development kits that are constantly being developed.

 

[Anmdt]

Much worse. That means they have an innate understanding of our KAAN's design characteristics.

Yeah bro TAI uses those software on computers which the user may access the internet and browse.

Most of the computers at best case has access to intranet where the license server and storage is set up, most of the analysis - simulation has been conducted on workload servers which has no access to www.

And those are pretty much basic software for many engineering tasks. For customized needs you work with academia and develop whatever you need built on open-source tools. Most of the commercial tools also let user-customized scripts, macros or solver level libraries that let you customize the solution based techniques at abundant levels.

Fun fact: France's electrical company EDF which designs and manufactures the nuclear plant's core openly distributes the computation tools: Code-Saturn, Code-Aster. Well known NASTRAN actually NASA's dynamic solver that is openly distributed and embedded to some redistributed software.

P.S. most of the commercial software do have a backdoor mechanism to ping and detect illegal uses, however at TAI's scale this is unnecessary.​

 

[Heartbang]

I don't want to be disrespectful, but should Turkey pull the developer tools out of its ass? Do you know how long it takes to make developer tools to develop the actual software that you really want and need?
First you have to know what you need, which is the hardest part, so we have a chicken <-> egg problem.
With all due respect to my country and our armed forces, if that bothers you, then we should have developed our own development environment from the beginning, but to do that you would have to know what an aircraft needs and since we have never developed aircraft in the last 30-40, we also have development kits that are constantly being developed.

Yeah bro TAI uses those software on computers which the user may access the internet and browse.

Most of the computers at best case has access to intranet where the license server and storage is set up, most of the analysis - simulation has been conducted on workload servers which has no access to www.

And those are pretty much basic software for many engineering tasks. For customized needs you work with academia and develop whatever you need build on open-source tools.

Fun fact: France' electrical company which designs and manufactures the nuclear plant's core openly distributes the computation tools: Code-Saturn, Code-Aster. Well known NASTRAN actually NASA's dynamic solver that is openly distributed and embedded to some redistributed software.

I'm aware of the fact that we lack the necessary tools for the time being. I just hope that we are working on our own toolset for these kinds of work, and in the meantime, doing our best about espionage, in the manner @Anmdt described.

 

[uçuyorum]

I'm aware of the fact that we lack the necessary tools for the time being. I just hope that we are working on our own toolset for these kinds of work, and in the meantime, doing our best about espionage, in the manner @Anmdt described.

It's just not possible to do everything yourself and do it good at once. Limited resources, human resource is more limited than money

 

[Afif]

as much as i like your posts this makes no sense. "platform maturity across the domains" is a vague copout of an argument and basically means nothing. kaan even in its first inducted form would have decent front-aspect stealth which is what matters first and foremost.

the j-20's chief designer once said about rear aspect stealth..."do you go into battle rearwards?"

kaan having old ass engines affects its performance in many forms, but as a threat stick for Aegea it's fine. kaan doesn't need massive extra thrust, or range, or rear aspect stealth to keep the greeks away. for its first blocks, kaan does not need to match f35 on every front, it just needs to be able to push greek (and other air) influence away and be a decent air to air threat.

at the end of the day we're all forgetting that one is a strike fighter first and the other is an air superiority aircraft first.

I did wrote a post clarifying what I meant in technical details and why F35 and KAAN shouldn't be compared yet. Seems it was deleted.

Also, I didn't comment on any potential conflict scenario and how it may plays out. That involves tons of other things. Which is was not the topic of disscusion.

 

[TR_123456]

the j-20's chief designer once said about rear aspect stealth..."do you go into battle rearwards?"

Yeah,i guess the J-20 never turnes left or right,up or down or a 180/360.
A real dumb comment by the chief designer.
The rear always gets exposed,so whats stealth about it then?
Btw,a radar doesnt see if its the rear or the front.

 

[Ahlatshah]

That is something unexpected

TUSAŞ'ta bayrak değişimi, Temel Kotil'in yerine Mehmet Demiroğlu atandı - Tolga Özbek

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii'nde yaklaşık 7 yıldır genel müdürlük görevini sürdüren Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil, görevi Helikopterden Sorumlu Genel Müdür

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Agha Sher]

That is something unexpected

TUSAŞ'ta bayrak değişimi, Temel Kotil'in yerine Mehmet Demiroğlu atandı - Tolga Özbek

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii'nde yaklaşık 7 yıldır genel müdürlük görevini sürdüren Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil, görevi Helikopterden Sorumlu Genel Müdür

tolgaozbek.com

Any reason given?

Not a good sign in this critical period.

 

[uçuyorum]

Any reason given?

Not a good sign in this critical period.

I mean he did bring value to company in certain ways but he wasn't much liked by engineers and technical people that I know of.

 

[Afif]

I think instead off reading into it too much, we need to realize people are usually replaced within normal process after a period of time. Temel Kotil been into that position for 7 years now. Until KAAN enters serial production in 2030, every moment will feel like a critical juncture. But he can't stay there forever either.

 

[Ahlatshah]

Any reason given?

Not a good sign in this critical period.

Today there was a general meeting. CEO and GM of TUSAŞ have been replaced.

Temel Kotil was the driving force of very important projects, particularly Kaan. His excitement and determination was crucial.

Sometimes changing is good but frankly I didnt like it due to timing. I can only hope that new GM would be better than Mr. Kotil