TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Quasar]

Ground radar might detect a stealth fighter at close distance however active radar seeker of missiles can not detect.

@Yasar_TR @Nilgiri could we say that hypothetical or lets say theoretical detection ranges of radars against different targets with differing RCS values has higly relevant but yet limited importance since capabities of your air to air missiles with far smaller and less power radars even with data link and GPS is equally important if not more important... and this area is the main play gound of low RCS targets.

 

[Zafer]

TAI is trying hard to conduct the first test flight of the second KAAN prototype by the end of 2024. The second prototype won't have combat systems at the first flight of the second prototype but those systems will be integrated as the tests continue. Combat system integration will be completed by the second half of 2026. Delivery of block 10 configuration will start by the end of 2028. This is the current rough roadmap till the delivery of block 10.

Seems like the time between second half of 2026 and the end of 2028 is compressible. Just add a domestic engine to make it work earlier.

 

[Saithan]

TAI is trying hard to conduct the first test flight of the second KAAN prototype by the end of 2024. The second prototype won't have combat systems at the first flight of the second prototype but those systems will be integrated as the tests continue. Combat system integration will be completed by the second half of 2026. Delivery of block 10 configuration will start by the end of 2028. This is the current rough roadmap till the delivery of block 10.

I can remember, but did we get the engines we need and did we get any additional engine as backup ? (a couple of extra in the hand would be nice).

Also if you have any info on any additional test we're going to be conducting with the first prototype, it'd be greatly appreciated.

My shortterm memory only remembers KAAN's flights. I need to have my daily flight injection in order to function....

 

[Yasar_TR]

I can remember, but did we get the engines we need and did we get any additional engine as backup ? (a couple of extra in the hand would be nice).

Also if you have any info on any additional test we're going to be conducting with the first prototype, it'd be greatly appreciated.

My shortterm memory only remembers KAAN's flights. I need to have my daily flight injection in order to function....

KAAN needs to start resuming flying tests like Hurjet is doing, in order to develop in to a plane that can become a block 10 aircraft. That is number one issue.

A second issue is the finalisation of license production agreement of f404 and f110 engines between TAI and GE. If we are to produce 11 more prototypes and 20 block 10 planes until 2028, we need over 60 units of f110 engines in the short term. And if we are to have 2 or even 3 squadrons of KAAN With f110s, then we need between 100 to 150 engines before indigenous engines are ready.
We also need at least 90 units of f404 engines for Hurjet to replace the 68 T38 trainers and 12 F5s in the aerobatic team.
It is not viable to buy them, when we can manufacture them at TEI.

As per below news piece video which has Bloomberg as the reference point of news, Türkiye has applied for permission to manufacture the KAAN’s and 40 F16 V70 jets’ engines in house at TEI. According to this video, currently 2 new KAAN prototypes are in the process of being built. There will be a further 10 units of KAAN prototypes to be produced until initial low rate serial production will start.

 

[Saithan]

KAAN needs to start resuming flying tests like Hurjet is doing, in order to develop in to a plane that can become a block 10 aircraft. That is number one issue.

A second issue is the finalisation of license production agreement of f404 and f110 engines between TAI and GE. If we are to produce 11 more prototypes and 20 block 10 planes until 2028, we need over 60 units of f110 engines in the short term. And if we are to have 2 or even 3 squadrons of KAAN With f110s, then we need between 100 to 150 engines before indigenous engines are ready.
We also need at least 90 units of f404 engines for Hurjet to replace the 68 T38 trainers and 12 F5s in the aerobatic team.
It is not viable to buy them, when we can manufacture them at TEI.

As per below news piece video which has Bloomberg as the reference point of news, Türkiye has applied for permission to manufacture the KAAN’s and 40 F16 V70 jets’ engines in house at TEI. According to this video, currently 2 new KAAN prototypes are in the process of being built. There will be a further 10 units of KAAN prototypes to be produced until initial low rate serial production will start.

If I recall correct. There was a limited number of engines we could acquire under the "prototype"/ testbed clause or something without senate etc. approval, wasn't that number 20 or something ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

If I recall correct. There was a limited number of engines we could acquire under the "prototype"/ testbed clause or something without senate etc. approval, wasn't that number 20 or something ?

I think you will find that it is dictated by monetary value rather than quantity.
Below site defines it in different categories from 14 million dollars to 300 million dollars, depending on the type of equipment and services being exported.
Whilst congressional approval is needed for ammunitions worth more than 1 million dollars, it is 14 million dollars for defence equipment, before congress is involved.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/RL31675.pdf

 

[Samba]

TUSAS Director Demiroglu has stated that 2nd prototype will be ready in 2025 and will fly at the end of 2025. TUSAS is currently working hard to overcome the obstacles before the supply chain.

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Demiroğlu MMU KAAN için tarih verdi! İkinci prototip o tarihte uçacak... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Havacılık Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, MMU KAAN için önemli açıklamalarda bulundu.

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

 

[TheInsider]

TUSAS Director Demiroglu has stated that 2nd prototype will be ready in 2025 and will fly at the end of 2025. TUSAS is currently working hard to overcome the obstacles before the supply chain.

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Demiroğlu MMU KAAN için tarih verdi! İkinci prototip o tarihte uçacak... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Havacılık Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, MMU KAAN için önemli açıklamalarda bulundu.

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

This means serious delay. He cited logistic chain problems. It seems we have an embargo problem. End of 2025 is basically 2026 there is no way to complete all the tests (kinematic tests, combat system tests like BURFIS, TOYGUN, KARAT etc, weapon integration and weapon tests) in 3 years to deliver the block 10 by the end of 2028.

 

[No Name]

This means serious delay. He cited logistic chain problems. It seems we have an embargo problem. End of 2025 is basically 2026 there is no way to complete all the tests (kinematic tests, combat system tests like BURFIS, TOYGUN, KARAT etc, weapon integration and weapon tests) in 3 years to deliver the block 10 by the end of 2028.

What is there to embargo?

 

[YeşilVatan]

What is there to embargo?

Shadow embargo. Delay deliveries, overprice, BS excuses, bureucracy. We've talked about it before.

 

[No Name]

Shadow embargo. Delay deliveries, overprice, BS excuses, bureucracy. We've talked about it before.

Yes, but what components are foreign? We know that the ejector seat is British and the engine is American, but I thought that both the seat and the engine were already delivered already?

 

[Agha Sher]

Slightly off topic, but the Tempest program is in limbo. The new UK government refuses to commit to it. Apparently they want the military to either select nuclear submarines or the Tempest.

That could also mean that UK, Italy, Japan and KSA will have to find a new 5th/6th generation project to onboard.

 

[Bogeyman]

Is the UK Burying 6th Generation Fighter Jet Project Tempest?

Labour’s tough defence choice: submarines or next-generation fighter jet? https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labours-tough-defence-choice-submarines-or-next-generation-fighter-s6kdmqht8 @TR_123456 @Kaan Azman @Kartal1 @OPTIMUS @TheInsider @Zafer @Anmdt @Merzifonlu @Nilgiri @Test7...

defencehub.live

I see the cancellation of long-term and expensive 6th generation aircraft projects by the British and the US as preparations for World War III. Because the war budget is not unlimited and the balance-changing platforms, especially, require high-volume production.

So, shape your expectations about the project schedule accordingly, people. Because we do not have the luxury of canceling Kaan.

 

[Cenkcnk]

Altay 2 loading…
Hurjet other prototypes non exist, this one is even worse

 

[uçuyorum]

Is the UK Burying 6th Generation Fighter Jet Project Tempest?

Labour’s tough defence choice: submarines or next-generation fighter jet? https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labours-tough-defence-choice-submarines-or-next-generation-fighter-s6kdmqht8 @TR_123456 @Kaan Azman @Kartal1 @OPTIMUS @TheInsider @Zafer @Anmdt @Merzifonlu @Nilgiri @Test7...

defencehub.live

I see the cancellation of long-term and expensive 6th generation aircraft projects by the British and the US as preparations for World War III. Because the war budget is not unlimited and the balance-changing platforms, especially, require high-volume production.

So, shape your expectations about the project schedule accordingly, people. Because we do not have the luxury of canceling Kaan.

Yeah the trend seems to be that everyone is trying to bolster the number and readiness of existing equipment and delay long term commitments. Same is the case of NGAD and F/A - XX. Could be a bit of fear mongering from US to say hey we have F35 buy that quickly you won't have 6th gen in time etc. If an actual large scale war is seen as very likely could make sense. KAAN is something we needed yesterday and we are trying to make 20 by 2028 for a reason, but we are already in a war and anticipating at least 3 more wars.

 

[Bogeyman]

Yeah the trend seems to be that everyone is trying to bolster the number and readiness of existing equipment and delay long term commitments. Same is the case of NGAD and F/A - XX. Could be a bit of fear mongering from US to say hey we have F35 buy that quickly you won't have 6th gen in time etc. If an actual large scale war is seen as very likely could make sense. KAAN is something we needed yesterday and we are trying to make 20 by 2028 for a reason, but we are already in a war and anticipating at least 3 more wars.

At the end of the day, Turkey will have to decide whether to assemble the F-16 from scratch with parts from the US or to add Kaan to the inventory as Block-10. If you are going to prepare for a world war, you cannot make plans and schedules targeting the 2035s.

We urgently need to clarify our expectations regarding Kaan and see whether we will switch to a war economy.

 

[uçuyorum]

At the end of the day, Turkey will have to decide whether to assemble the F-16 from scratch with parts from the US or to add Kaan to the inventory as Block-10. If you are going to prepare for a world war, you cannot make plans and schedules targeting the 2035s.

We urgently need to clarify our expectations regarding Kaan and see whether we will switch to a war economy.

I mean we are going for every possible thing, Özgür + Eurofighter + Block 70 + KAAN and if they give F35 we would take that as well, like, not either or, but all of them.

 

[Khagan1923]

I think there is a miscommunication here. Prototype 2 is the third aircraft which already was scheduled for next year. There are right now two aircraft on the production line, P1 and P2. P1 should roll out towards the end of this year and fly beginning of next year. P2 is scheduled to roll out later in 2025 and fly towards the end of 2025.

The current plane is designated P0 or GTU.

so there shouldn’t be the case of “delays” but rather confusion and miscommunication partaking the naming of the aircrafts.

 

[zio]

Altay 2 loading…
Hurjet other prototypes non exist, this one is even worse

On defence turkey latest edt İ.S. says 4 hürjet deliveries to TurAF first than they give back to tusaş

 

[Rooxbar]

It's mentioned that the delays are due to supply chain disruptions regarding the titanium parts. Probably it's the same reason for Temel Kotil's departure concerning the falsified authenticity documentation that originated from a metals supplier in China which were used in Airbus and Boeing parts also. Still not clear though where the problem lies, with Italian firm Titanium International Group, with Spirit, TUSAŞ or with the Chinese Baoji Titanium Industry?!

F.A.A. Investigating How Questionable Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets

The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.

www.nytimes.com