TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[UcanTost]

Just your unreasoned posts. I'm okay if you tell us why will not Kaan be ready in the next 10 years and I find the reason logical or at least arguable. So what I want is a reason. Not much.

Statement: Kaan+35k engine won't be ready before 2040, by 2040 warfare will look very different.

Argument: Insufficient funding, timeline of US engine programs. Current ongoing wars indicating huge increase in drones

 

[Turkic]

Statement: Kaan+35k engine won't be ready before 2040, by 2040 warfare will look very different.

Argument: Insufficient funding, timeline of US engine programs. Current ongoing wars indicating huge increase in drones

Reducing the Time and Cost of Testing Engines | NASA Spinoff

spinoff.nasa.gov

It says 1 billion dollar per engine development and then states the difference between development time periods of commercial and military engines. They stated the difference between commercial and military one when there is. So I will assume no difference in price considering no difference stated.

Published in 2004 so 1 billion dollars then is approximately 1.67 billion dollars today. Let's add some technological advancement gap and make it 2.5 billion. This is also the predicted cost for engine of Tempest. The F135 costed 10 billion but it's not a suitable engine to compare because of vertical take-off stuff. Safran and MTU signed for 3.5 billions for FCAS. So let's say it 3 billions as a average cost. I guess this money is already saved by giving the F-16 modernisation program to TAI, even if it is more than 3 billion.

And it's stated as 10 years to develop a military engine to Nasa. Since they have a lot of know-how and we are rookie, I'll add 5 more years. And let's say real designation process started at 2020 but not in 2017 (when TRMotor established). It still towards us to 2035 not 2040. And you stated "Kaan will not be ready in 10 years even with F110". Kaan likely to be ready with TF-35K around 2035 at latest. And much earlier with F110. According to these data and some guesses of mine.

 

[Saithan]

For the umptheenth time we'll see when we get there. Meanwhile since hürjet is flying and doing acrobatics etc. We should focus on semi-mass production of Hürjet and have a dedicated team for it. Better safe than sorry.

 

[UcanTost]

Reducing the Time and Cost of Testing Engines | NASA Spinoff

spinoff.nasa.gov

It says 1 billion dollar per engine development and then states the difference between development time periods of commercial and military engines. They stated the difference between commercial and military one when there is. So I will assume no difference in price considering no difference stated.

Published in 2004 so 1 billion dollars then is approximately 1.67 billion dollars today. Let's add some technological advancement gap and make it 2.5 billion. This is also the predicted cost for engine of Tempest. The F135 costed 10 billion but it's not a suitable engine to compare because of vertical take-off stuff. Safran and MTU signed for 3.5 billions for FCAS. So let's say it 3 billions as a average cost. I guess this money is already saved by giving the F-16 modernisation program to TAI, even if it is more than 3 billion.

And it's stated as 10 years to develop a military engine to Nasa. Since they have a lot of know-how and we are rookie, I'll add 5 more years. And let's say real designation process started at 2020 but not in 2017 (when TRMotor established). It still towards us to 2035 not 2040. And you stated "Kaan will not be ready in 10 years even with F110". Kaan likely to be ready with TF-35K around 2035 at latest. And much earlier with F110. According to these data and some guesses of mine.

Yes, I stand by that. Kaan won't be combat ready before 2035. 35k engine combat ready 2035 LATEST is a pipedream. There is a huge difference between Hurjet (Can't beat older T50 sales wise yet) and MMU projects.

The article doesn't make sense. It costs a lot more than 1billion usd for a 10year military engine program even in 2004. Budget (so far, more to come) for FCAS engine is 3.5b usd. Total program (estimated so far) is 100b+ usd.

Anways, I made my statement and I've been here for 15 years. We'll see in the future.

 

[boredaf]

For the umptheenth time we'll see when we get there. Meanwhile since hürjet is flying and doing acrobatics etc. We should focus on semi-mass production of Hürjet and have a dedicated team for it. Better safe than sorry.

That makes absolutely zero sense. Mainly because we don't have an engine for it either, and we have no idea if we could get an agreement for engine to be used on a light attack variant. How on earth are you expecting it to enter "mass" production without engines? We don't even have an engine program for it right now mate.

Not to mention, it is far less capable than even the worst version of Kaan would be. It is doubtful it can even carry our heaviest munitions. Why push for it and split your workforce and budget?? People are really overestimating Hürjet.

 

[Turkic]

Hurjet (Can't beat older T50 sales wise yet)

First, Hürjet is out of topic. And would you judge a newborn baby because he did less job than a 70 y.o retired lawyer ? No, right ? Because the baby may achieve a lot more than lawyer achieved in decades in just a few years. It was a bad comparison you made, sorry.

The article doesn't make sense. It costs a lot more than 1billion usd for a 10year military engine program even in 2004. Budget (so far, more to come) for FCAS engine is 3.5b usd.

I already stated 3.5b for FCAS. Did you even read it ? And I stated a guess about 3b. So what are you mumbling about ?

Total program (estimated so far) is 100b+ usd.

Irrelevant from topic.

You're not giving any reason for your statements again, bro. You're just stating them.

Anways, I made my statement and I've been here for 15 years. We'll see in the future.

Yes, we will see. I also made my statement and I support it unless CHP wins a presidency in 2028 or 2033. I look for the time we'll talk about this again.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Just ignore him, he has his opinion now and you can't change it. He is probably of the opinion that only the white European or Anglo-American human race is capable of producing these things.
But he has forgotten that the costs of the engines for development are also a lot of job creation measures and they all want to see money and get paid.
The best example is in Germany, where an airport has been under construction for more than 10 years. The system in Germany works in such a way that the maximum amount of money is siphoned off through delays, certificates, permits, and the subcontractor economy and a high level of bureaucracy. The same game is played in the USA to collect as much tax money as possible. It would certainly be possible with a fraction of the money if the hierarchies were flatter and fewer private companies were involved.

In every Turkish bigger military industrial group or company for example ASELSAN, ROKETSAN & Co, the state is also involved as an co entrepreneur; here we have two prerequisites that do not exist in Europe and USA.
Firstly, the political will to arm and develop at a rapid pace and the control that money is not spent too lavishly. Of course you can never abolish nepotism, but Turkey is developing weapons systems and technology very efficiently and the Europeans/Americans know this and they are trying to stop or slow it down by all means.