TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[hugh]

Our second Kaan....

it is not the second KAAN. please have some common sense. A month ago Haluk Görgün shared the bulkheads of the aircraft and in the same tweet he explicitly said it's the second prototype.

we've been over this. there is a misunderstanding. what you see on that photo is the first prototype. 100%

 

[Oublious]

it is not the second KAAN. please have some common sense. A month ago Haluk Görgün shared the bulkheads of the aircraft and in the same tweet he explicitly said it's the second prototype.

we've been over this. there is a misunderstanding. what you see on that photo is the first prototype. 100%

He says second fighters in the video. Didn't see the tweet what you are writing about. We should ask people where it is or find the complete video of this meeting.

 

[hugh]

He says second fighters in the video. Didn't saw the tweet what you are writing about, we should ask people who wher ther or find the complete video off this meeting.

"2025 yılı sonunda ilk uçuşunu gerçekleştirecek ikinci prototipimizin üretim ve montaj faaliyetlerini yerinde inceledik."

Translation: "We examined the production and assembly activities of our second prototype, which will make its first flight at the end of 2025."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1870038708079964305

 

[Huelague]

KAAN - II , 6. Gen. Fighter Jet.

 

[Huelague]

What do you think about a retractable and flexible rudder? I mean the vertical stabilizers, where they can be but from a horizontal position in to a vertical position. I saw this in an animation video of a Japanese 6.gen fighter jet.

 

[uçuyorum]

What do you think about a retractable and flexible rudder? I mean the vertical stabilizers, where they can be but from a horizontal position in to a vertical position. I saw this in an animation video of a Japanese 6.gen fighter jet.

Lots of mechanical complexity and will probably increase the radar reflectivity if anything at the joint

 

[Huelague]

Lots of mechanical complexity and will probably increase the radar reflectivity if anything at the joint

A retractable rudder has the purpose to minimize the RCS. But yes, the mechanical is complex. Where we lack a little bit…

 

[IC3M@N FX]

A serious question, how likely is it that Turkey will participate in the Tempest project after completion of the TAI KAAN project (serial machine), say in 5-6 years. E.g. preliminary talks in 2-3 years to join the Tempest project and run it parallel as a future investment + technology transfer.
In addition, a production line for parts would give us a second mainstay.
Call me crazy, but I keep hearing that the UK and Italy are seeking closer cooperation with Turkey.
Somehow I get the feeling that they could be taking a multi-pronged approach. Turkey will always strive for independence and develop its own fighter aircraft, but it will also look for synergies to keep its own product at the cutting edge of technology.

Both Italy with Leonardo and the UK with BAE have signalled their intention to work together on various projects, e.g. Baykar through Italy and BAE with Turkey Eurofighter and other Projects.

 

[Huelague]

A serious question, how likely is it that Turkey will participate in the Tempest project after completion of the TAI KAAN project (serial machine), say in 5-6 years. E.g. preliminary talks in 2-3 years to join the Tempest project and run it parallel as a future investment + technology transfer.
In addition, a production line for parts would give us a second mainstay.
Call me crazy, but I keep hearing that the UK and Italy are seeking closer cooperation with Turkey.
Somehow I get the feeling that they could be taking a multi-pronged approach. Turkey will always strive for independence and develop its own fighter aircraft, but it will also look for synergies to keep its own product at the cutting edge of technology.

It’s very likely, as far as our conditions will be accepted, full ToT. But hard conditions are expected, workshare, participation, penalty payments, aso. They know, we are able to produce the fighter on our own. No need for silly games or in vain trying to stop our progress. They don’t need an additional contracting party. If you can’t fight your opponent, lead them or make him partner. Beside of this, we have all the necessary personnel’s and infrastructure to do this participation.
GB, Japan, Italy and Sweden, all of them have aviation facilities and much experience in this sector. If Türkiye can join this project, the end product can be so marvelously, that even I can get a harder

 

[Sanchez]

after completion of the TAI KAAN project

Kaan will not be "completed" in the next 20 years. "Full" version is expected about 10 years later, design improvements will keep on coming for at least 15-20 more years after that.

GCAP is a multi nation program, and now a joint venture between the three countries like Eurofighter is. We wouldn't own the IP and wouldn't be a part of the R&D, there are already thousands of people working on it. We could be a second rate participant in the program if they decide to enlarge it, or a user.

 

[Hannibal]

They may have changed the position of the vertical stabilizers. Because height has dropped by almost 1 meter. The vertical stabilizers on the engine humps made the Kaan very tall. Either they made the Kaan slimmer (which I doubt) or they changed the position of the vstabs to make the Kaan shorter.

It's now very similar to F-22 Dimensions, almost identical wingspan, and height. But the Kaan is longer.

Hopefully they make it even smaller, to allow navy carrier operations in the future.

 

[2033]

A serious question, how likely is it that Turkey will participate in the Tempest project after completion of the TAI KAAN project (serial machine), say in 5-6 years. E.g. preliminary talks in 2-3 years to join the Tempest project and run it parallel as a future investment + technology transfer.
In addition, a production line for parts would give us a second mainstay.
Call me crazy, but I keep hearing that the UK and Italy are seeking closer cooperation with Turkey.
Somehow I get the feeling that they could be taking a multi-pronged approach. Turkey will always strive for independence and develop its own fighter aircraft, but it will also look for synergies to keep its own product at the cutting edge of technology.

Both Italy with Leonardo and the UK with BAE have signalled their intention to work together on various projects, e.g. Baykar through Italy and BAE with Turkey Eurofighter and other Projects.

In such technological partnerships, how is technology shared? For example, does one country develop the radar, another the engine, and another the cockpit? While it may not be exactly like this, is there a similar division? Because if I am developing the radar, why would I share its technology with the other partners? Each country likely contributes to the aircraft in the area they are strong in, but they might not gain access to the technologies developed by others. I actually think joint ventures dont involve deep technology sharing.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Kaan will not be "completed" in the next 20 years. "Full" version is expected about 10 years later, design improvements will keep on coming for at least 15-20 more years after that.

GCAP is a multi nation program, and now a joint venture between the three countries like Eurofighter is. We wouldn't own the IP and wouldn't be a part of the R&D, there are already thousands of people working on it. We could be a second rate participant in the program if they decide to enlarge it, or a user.

I know that TAI KAAN will not end with Block 0 or 1, but will get at least 2-3 more blocks, maybe even a very last so-called Long Term Block as the last upgrade, if everything goes well.
In other words, we are talking about 20-25 years with major hardware and software upgrades at intervals of 4-5 years.
Then you can use the type as a workhorse in the armed forces for a total of maybe 30 years, but then it's over.
It's no longer the case that you can use aircraft types for at least 35-40 years like in the past - research is much faster than in the 70-90s thanks to AI & Co + China.
In addition, there are many more players in the market today and the pressure on all involved aviation industries will increase in the long term due to the need for new innovations, aircraft will at least age faster than before.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

In such technological partnerships, how is technology shared? For example, does one country develop the radar, another the engine, and another the cockpit? While it may not be exactly like this, is there a similar division? Because if I am developing the radar, why would I share its technology with the other partners? Each country likely contributes to the aircraft in the area they are strong in, but they might not gain access to the technologies developed by others. I actually think joint ventures dont involve deep technology sharing.

But a technology transfer always takes place somehow because you get an insight into the technology itself and its manufacturing technology to a certain degree.
Through the contract work of Boeing and Airbus Cargo and passenger aircraft, license construction of the F-16 and the parts of the F-35 + a good portion of research, Turkey has also acquired its own know-how for TAI KAAN, it certainly did not come from a vacuum.
But without this contract work and license construction & Co, Turkey could not even build a glider, you have to be honest. If it were that easy, Iran & Co would have had reasonably modern fighter planes of their own long ago. They're still clucking around with old Tomcats & Co....

 

[Fuzuli NL]

 

[2033]

But a technology transfer always takes place somehow because you get an insight into the technology itself and its manufacturing technology to a certain degree.
Through the contract work of Boeing and Airbus Cargo and passenger aircraft, license construction of the F-16 and the parts of the F-35 + a good portion of research, Turkey has also acquired its own know-how for TAI KAAN, it certainly did not come from a vacuum.
But without this contract work and license construction & Co, Turkey could not even build a glider, you have to be honest. If it were that easy, Iran & Co would have had reasonably modern fighter planes of their own long ago. They're still clucking around with old Tomcats & Co....

Turkey's licensed production was undoubtedly an important starting for us, but no other country engaged in similar production has reached the level we have achieved. In a short time, we have accomplished success that only a few countries are capable of. Specifically, we have reached a strong position in unmanned aerial vehicles. The technology of the future will be MUM-T (Manned-Unmanned Teaming). Our experience with UAVs will be highly beneficial for us in the field of MUM-T as well.

Do you think it is wise to share these achievements with the Tempest/GCAP partners?

On the other hand, we are located in a region where political tensions are always a possibility. The partners might try to pressure us for political reasons...

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Turkey's licensed production was undoubtedly an important starting for us, but no other country engaged in similar production has reached the level we have achieved. In a short time, we have accomplished success that only a few countries are capable of. Specifically, we have reached a strong position in unmanned aerial vehicles. The technology of the future will be MUM-T (Manned-Unmanned Teaming). Our experience with UAVs will be highly beneficial for us in the field of MUM-T as well.

Do you think it is wise to share these achievements with the Tempest/GCAP partners?

On the other hand, we are located in a region where political tensions are always a possibility. The partners might try to pressure us for political reasons...

Please don't be angry with me, I don't want to drag our industry into the mud and make it look bad. They really have achieved incredible things in just 15 years - nobody questions that, not even foreign countries.
But countries like Great Britain, Japan, France and even Germany and Italy are at least 10 years ahead of us technologically in aircraft construction.
I'm not talking about drones and their targeting software - that's a whole separate chapter.
They all don't have own GEN 5 aircraft, not because they can't do it, but because the political and economic will wasn't there to develop one. But that has nothing to do with the fact that they can't do it. The fact that they are venturing directly into GEN 6 aircraft such as FCAS and Tempest shows that they already have the basic prerequisites for developing a GEN 5 aircraft.

They skip GEN 5 as a separate aircraft because they see no significant added value between a Rafaele/Eurofighter and GEN 5 aircraft. They go straight to GEN 6. If Turkey had developed a GEN 4.5 aircraft with similar parameters as a Rafaele/Eurofighter say 10-15 years ago. I am 1000% sure they would never have developed KAAN as a 5 GEN and would have gone straight to GEN 6.
Because the gap between an absolute high-end aircraft of the GEN 4.5 and 5 GEN is not so extremly serious.

 

[Nutuk]

A serious question, how likely is it that Turkey will participate in the Tempest project after completion of the TAI KAAN project (serial machine), say in 5-6 years. E.g. preliminary talks in 2-3 years to join the Tempest project and run it parallel as a future investment + technology transfer.
In addition, a production line for parts would give us a second mainstay.
Call me crazy, but I keep hearing that the UK and Italy are seeking closer cooperation with Turkey.
Somehow I get the feeling that they could be taking a multi-pronged approach. Turkey will always strive for independence and develop its own fighter aircraft, but it will also look for synergies to keep its own product at the cutting edge of technology.

Both Italy with Leonardo and the UK with BAE have signalled their intention to work together on various projects, e.g. Baykar through Italy and BAE with Turkey Eurofighter and other Projects.

Question would be "Why would we be interested in joining Tempest while we have Kaan"

Goes against every notion of our aim of being "independent"

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Question would be "Why would we be interested in joining Tempest while we have Kaan"

Goes against every notion of our aim of being "independent"

I'm not saying that they have to do it absolutely without ifs and buts, but if the conditions are good they should definitely go along with it, that's immense know-how they get.

Do you know how pissed off Germany was when the UK & Co asked Germany to disclose the data of the Eurofighter and its technical parameters and the German subcomponents, which are under the strictest secrecy, and handed it over to Turkey for the pre-sale phase.
I'm not talking about what was made and how it is made, but the performance data and how their systems work.
The Germans know that with the Eurofighter deal, they are handing over a passive/active technology transfer, and very involuntarily they are not happy about it .

They know that it will give the Turkish defence industry a huge boost, not to mention the maintenance/repair knowledge they will gain, not to mention reverse engineering .

 

[Huelague]

Question would be "Why would we be interested in joining Tempest while we have Kaan"

Goes against every notion of our aim of being "independent"

A partnership doesn’t mean lost of independence. Tempest partnership means less technology value or strategic than a economical value and an access to market of industrial states.