TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[uçuyorum]

I hope you understand what I’m trying to say to you. You can, of course, predict exactly what can or will happen in the future. If you have all the necessary informations.
Don’t let us go further and let’s wait what will happen.

That's not even physically possible due to heisenberg uncertainty principle but i digress

 

[hugh]

You can, of course, predict exactly what can or will happen in the future. If you have all the necessary informations.

This is impossible for humans. We can neither know all the initial conditions of the problem nor have the necessary compute to calculate a solution(future event). And everything else is just a guess.

He cannot precisely know or predict the future milestones of TF6000, let alone the TF35000.

 

[TheInsider]

These last few posts and the timeline given about KAAN are like a poker table bidding.
First it was Mr Kotil who gave us 2028 as the first indigenous KAAN engine to fly the plane.
Tusas MD Demiroglu said that in first half of 2030 KAAN will fly with completely indigenous engines.
Then Current SSB recently said 2030 is the date.
Now our members are increasing the bidding war to 2031-2032-2033-2034.

First we need to see a demonstrator fired. Then a prototype that can fly the KAAN.
We don’t know yet, what sort of difficulties we will be confronted with in the days and years to come.
Even after the engines fly the first time, there may be many new obstacles we need to overcome.
Do we know if we have solved the cooling of the extensively complex, heat generating avionics present in a stealth plane? Have we managed to cool the engine effectively so that IR signature is minimised and dispersed?

The F22 has a special system with which it cools down the large avionic heat generation. It uses a totally integrated liquid based environmental control system (ECS) that provides thermal conditioning throughout the flight envelope for the pilot and the avionics. It uses a liquid cooling system rather than air as it gives better and more positive results. It uses the plane’s fuel to cool down the heated refrigerant as it cycles through the system.

The engine’s heat signature is masked through specially designed air ducts that cools the air around the engine with a totally closed loop operation system of refrigerant and heat exchanger.

These are just some of the few new technologies that Tusas has to implement and test on a physical engine and plane.
Just check out some of the ground breaking innovations F22 has, in below article.

It is no small feat to get a stealth plane up and flying with all the bells and whistles. It may take time to harmonise everything. But to know when all will be complete, is an open ended string. Let us wait and see and believe in what the people who know what they are doing, in stead of theorising without any foundation.

F-22 Flight Critical Systems

www.globalsecurity.org

There is no increase in the bid. The current timeline of the national engine envisions the engine integration in 2029 followed by flight tests and the delivery of the first KAAN with the national engine in 2032. There is also no change for the delivery date of Kaan with F110. It is still the end of 2028 early 2029.

You will hear more about TF-35000 this year. The design will be frozen this year. Some parts of the prototype are in production. I expect to see a realistic mockup in IDEF but we will see. The first ignition will happen in 2026.

 

[2033]

There is no increase in the bid. The current timeline of the national engine envisions the engine integration in 2029 followed by flight tests and the delivery of the first KAAN with the national engine in 2032. There is also no change for the delivery date of Kaan with F110. It is still the end of 2028 early 2029.

You will hear more about TF-35000 this year. The design will be frozen this year. Some parts of the prototype are in production. I expect to see a realistic mockup in IDEF but we will see. The first ignition will happen in 2026.

Please tell me when the tender was held and who won it. What is TRMotor's role in this? TEI will develop it, but will TRMotor own the IP (intellectual property) rights? What approach will be followed?

 

[Turkic]

Please tell me when the tender was held and who won it. What is TRMotor's role in this? TEI will develop it, but will TRMotor own the IP (intellectual property) rights? What approach will be followed?

TRMotor won the first tender. I don't recall a final decision from the second tender. TEI and TRMotor are working together and it was told Ivchenko was working with them. Kale has %51 of shares of TAEC. Which is their engine corporation with Rolls Royce. It was stated before that TEI TRMotor and Kale could develop one together or each seperate.

Once I asked a TAI engineer about this tender and he told me "one tender goes another comes, things change fast.".

Probably TEI TRMotor are working on one with help of Ivchenko Progress and Kale is working on another along with Rolls Royce.

I'm thinking of a partnership with UK. Imo, Kaan and GCAP/Tempest could use the same engine which both UK and Turkiye has property rights. Not going to happen tho. Maybe for next-gen Kaan or if what 6th gen jet we'll produce.

Btw, what happened to TAEC's website ? There was one right ?

 

[Saithan]

I agree. It's the sensible thing to do politically. But if US won't supply F-35, why would they allow KAAN to be supplied with a US engine?

I do not think that it will be a problem if the KAAN version with F404 engine is sold to KSA. I mean it's old tech.

 

[I_Love_F16]

I do not think that it will be a problem if the KAAN version with F404 engine is sold to KSA. I mean it's old tech.

F110*. The F404 doesn’t have enough power to propel Kaan.

 

[Spitfire9]

Probably TEI TRMotor are working on one with help of Ivchenko Progress and Kale is working on another along with Rolls Royce.

I'm thinking of a partnership with UK. Imo, Kaan and GCAP/Tempest could use the same engine which both UK and Turkiye has property rights. Not going to happen tho. Maybe for next-gen Kaan or if what 6th gen jet we'll produce.

I think the engine for the Tempest may turn out to produce much more power than is needed by the KAAN.

In any event I guess that RR have been working on a design for 10+ years, given that the UK revealed its Tempest project at the Farnborough air show in 2018. With Japanese and Italian companies also involved, workshare and areas of responsibility in the engine design are mapped out.

Turkiye has little or no technology to contribute that does not already exist in the engine consortium, so what grounds would there be for Turkish involvement in the Tempest engine consortium?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I agree. It's the sensible thing to do politically. But if US won't supply F-35, why would they allow KAAN to be supplied with a US engine?

For one simple reason: The Americans cannot stop the KAAN project.
In fact, I am very sure that they know exactly when the Turkish engine will be ready and what specifications it will have.
From the American point of view, a refusal by the US government to export F-110s would be useless and completely counterproductive.
Turkey would be doing several things at once.

1. end the joint venture with TEI and GE, dissolve TEI in its current form, at least in this form. The Americans would then be completely out of the Turkish defence industry as far as engines and other cooperations are concerned.

2) Turkey would knock on the door of Russia/China to get a suitable engine for the prototype and for the first blocks, and the Russians or Chinese would even be prepared to supply them, including a technology transfer.
Because they know very well that Turkey has a geopolitical and strategic value, and Turkey as a NATO member becomes even more uncontrollable.
It would only be a member on paper, because the relationship between NATO and Turkey is already very ambivalent and fragile, and the damage would be almost irreversible. Domestically, this would be the ammunition Erdogan needs to further unite the population and consolidate his position: "They don't want us, they don't accept us and they don't trust us.
It would even give him a massive political boost, because the national consciousness in Turkey ticks in a completely different way to anywhere else in the world. In contrast to Europe, the Americans know that you don't divide the country by attacking it too much politically and economically, but that all parties and citizens voluntarily or involuntarily pull together - even parties like the DEM would have to bow to this social pressure.

3) Turkey would even consider kicking a large part of the Americans out of Incirlik and other bases completely.

4) Turkey will then have no inhibitions about buying complete weapons systems from non-NATO countries, e.g. aircraft for the navy, where both the US and Turkey hope to somehow solve the F-35 <-> S-400 problem in a face-saving way for both sides.

So the Americans lose more than they gain by refusing. The indigenous engine will come either way, whether in 8, 10 or 12 years, it doesn't help them to destroy important relationships if they can't change anything.