TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Oublious]

armyrecognation came first witht he news and the rest off the internet copy each other. People are writing about a news what is not being confirmed . You should ask yourself, ther is 1 prototype at the moment how the fak can Pakistan build one? Why should Pakistan give tech to China? They are making ther 6 gen fighter.

It is easy to manipulate Turkish people with internet....

 

[hugh]

armyrecognation came first witht he news and the rest off the internet copy each other. People are writing about a news what is not being confirmed . You should ask yourself, ther is 1 prototype at the moment how the fak can Pakistan build one? Why should Pakistan give tech to China? They are making ther 6 gen fighter.

It is easy to manipulate Turkish people with internet....

It's not about Pakistan's government selling out secrets, it's the corruption in the state.

And do you think we would not care to learn more about Rafale and study its weaknesses just because we're making a 5th gen aircraft?

 

[I_Love_F16]

Why should Pakistan give tech to China?

Because China would ask them. Chinese espionage, and industrial espionage in general, is a real thing. You guys are heavily underestimating that fact.

 

[TR_123456]

The "Kaan-P" fighter jet will be put into production with China's WS-10G engine

That will never happen.
None of the Chinese engines are on par with Western engines.
Not even the WS-15 engine,the chinese claim so many things about their engines but i havent seen any proof,has anyone ever?

 

[Nilgiri]

That will never happen.
None of the Chinese engines are on par with Western engines.
Not even the WS-15 engine,the chinese claim so many things about their engines but i havent seen any proof,has anyone ever?

Only way we will know if credible airforce operates chinese and western engine platforms side by side to get the MRO comparison etc...and then credibly releases information or molds future acquisition cycle from performance feedback of each etc.

But that will take a long time (and expense and logistics and geopolitical capital/relations restricts the possibility of this happening to begin with). Just like a larger civilian engine from China in commercial a/c will take a long time to start to compare and contrast in civilian MRO.

There is a reason China goes with western (LEAP) engines in its COMAC C919 new airliner and not the WS-20 it has on Y-20 military transport for example...and we will have to wait and see how any future COMAC aircraft use WS-20 and its variants, but I would assume it takes a long time for mettle to be first proven in China domestically before international MRO accept it more credibly (along with however sales go with C919 internationally to drive that to begin with w.r.t boeing/airbus and embraer/ATR etc which I also think will be slower than lot of China enthusiasts assert).

One can back apply what this means in military domain to some degree.

 

[2033]

That will never happen.
None of the Chinese engines are on par with Western engines.
Not even the WS-15 engine,the chinese claim so many things about their engines but i havent seen any proof,has anyone ever?

Are you saying that we are better than China in aviation engines?

It is extraordinary that we are better than the Chinese despite their unlimited financial and human resources.

 

[Saithan]

Guys, taking things out of a context and continuing arguing is just giving reason for more misunderstandings.

I'd like to point out that we still know very little of what's going on, so returning to discuss things we've already talked about is a waste of time.

China isn't going to allow a western company to conduct a test on their platforms and reveal their capabilities to enemies. Not even if everything was in vague terms.

Only if you get your hands on a platform that crashes or due to war will you be able to asses that, and I am pretty damn sure China isn't going to let those platforms be the frontline in anything.

So talking about it is just waste of time. including the "KAAN-P" that I tossed in there initially.

 

[TR_123456]

Are you saying that we are better than China in aviation engines?

It is extraordinary that we are better than the Chinese despite their unlimited financial and human resources.

Thats not what i'm saying,i'm saying that i havent seen any western standard Chinese engine yet.
Boasting about and actually proving it are different things.

 

[AlperTunga]

We have recently provided Pakistan with a lot of strategic know-how and infrastructure consultations, we are looking for ways to work together, and it is undeniable that there has been a serious rapprochement in the military bureaucracies of both sides, not just in words but in concrete terms.

Consultation services for restructuring of the Karachi shipyard, the transfer of some know-how related the Milgem project to help them design, classify and build their own frigates, systems engineering and related works support to the Khalid (Agosta 90B) class submarines to provide them with a number of strategic capabilities, and, I think equally important, the agreement on the joint development of air-to-air missiles through the Gökdoğan infrastructure, were all important agenda items that were openly reported and not even discussed in the Turkish social media as much as they were reported in the Indian media. There are even some detailed issues, but I am not sure which is open source information and which is not, so I don't want to speculate.

In short, the opening of the KAAN program to Pakistan has been expected for years, there is nothing surprising in this. In the meantime, -isolating the issue of political instability in Pakistan-, I have the opinion that in general terms, it is extremely compatible with Turkish interests for Pakistan to have a strong military deterrent.

Is Pakistan more advanced than us in missile technology? We can make use of this. They also have quite a talented and intelligent engineer pool, which we can utilize. We should also learn how to build the bomb from them in detail.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Please do not share posts here unless you have “credible” sources to show.
Rumours and hearsay on important matters has no place here.
Your personal views can be shared as long as it is stated so.
Contrary behaviour is going to be treated as spam and warnings will be issued.

 

[Rooxbar]

If any of this is true, by the time Pakistan starts building Kaans or any subsystems, the technologies will be almost obsolete anyway; only way you can compete in this sector is if you share what you got technologically 5 years ago for good prices to fund your efforts to surpass that generation as the technology transfer to prospective competitor only gets the competitor to where you were a decade ago. This calculation works based on the human capital potential of the destination nation and your own industrial prospects.

 

[Hannibal]

Only the American F-35s will get the new APG-85 Radar, meaning it will not be exported. Greek F-35s although being Block 4, will not get the APG-85. If Aselsan can pull through with MURAD 600A, Kaan's radar will be superior to Greek and Israeli F-35s in the region.

 

[Nutuk]

So and now somebody tell me again why do we need the Eurofighter???

If Kaan is to be delivered in 2028, than Why the f. do we need Eurofighter? Are we extreme rich and masochists?


Either they tell us a lot of BS, expecting big delays in the Kaan project or something. Having Kaan delivered in 2028 and purchasing Eurofighter is non sensical

We talk about Kaan delivery in 3 years, Eurofighter is unlikely to be delivered earlier

 

[Hannibal]

So and now somebody tell me again why do we need the Eurofighter???

If Kaan is to be delivered in 2028, than Why the f. do we need Eurofighter? Are we extreme rich and masochists?


Either they tell us a lot of BS, expecting big delays in the Kaan project or something. Having Kaan delivered in 2028 and purchasing Eurofighter is non sensical

We talk about Kaan delivery in 3 years, Eurofighter is unlikely to be delivered earlier

Kaan will replace F16s.
Eurofighter will replace F4s.

 

[Yasar_TR]

1. This is TFX-KAAN Fighter Jet thread. Stay on topic
2. Do not post unfounded claims without source

 

[Spitfire9]

So and now somebody tell me again why do we need the Eurofighter???

If Kaan is to be delivered in 2028, than Why the f. do we need Eurofighter? Are we extreme rich and masochists?

1 what is the earliest KAAN could reach FOC with the Turkish air force?
2 what is the earliest Eurofighter could reach FOC with the Turkish air force?

Do the answers lend weight to a choice to order Eurofighter?

PS Prompt to stay on topic was posted while I was writing this post. Please delete if appropriate.

 

[Huelague]

So and now somebody tell me again why do we need the Eurofighter???

If Kaan is to be delivered in 2028, than Why the f. do we need Eurofighter? Are we extreme rich and masochists?


Either they tell us a lot of BS, expecting big delays in the Kaan project or something. Having Kaan delivered in 2028 and purchasing Eurofighter is non sensical

We talk about Kaan delivery in 3 years, Eurofighter is unlikely to be delivered earlier

Because we need the fighter jets today and not tomorrow.

 

[uçuyorum]

Because we need the fighter jets today and not tomorrow.

Its also called not putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Boykaz]

So and now somebody tell me again why do we need the Eurofighter???

If Kaan is to be delivered in 2028, than Why the f. do we need Eurofighter? Are we extreme rich and masochists?


Either they tell us a lot of BS, expecting big delays in the Kaan project or something. Having Kaan delivered in 2028 and purchasing Eurofighter is non sensical

We talk about Kaan delivery in 3 years, Eurofighter is unlikely to be delivered earlier

The Turkish air force is currently alarming. While there used to be 200+ F4 phantoms and 200+ F-16s, now this number is:
235 F-16s
30+ became F-4
In other words, we need at least 400+ war planes to regain our former power.
Kaan, 20 units will be given in 2028-2029, so it is a small number.

 

[Nutuk]

Thank you all for the answers. These are your answers:

1) Kaan will replace F16s. Eurofighter will replace F4s.
2) what is the earliest KAAN could reach FOC with the Turkish air force?
3) Because we need the fighter jets today and not tomorrow.
4) Its also called not putting all your eggs in one basket.
5) The Turkish air force is currently alarming. While there used to be 200+ F4 phantoms and 200+ F-16s, now this number is: 235 F-16s, 30+ became F-4


5 different opinions and I can add also my own opinion: The Eurofighter purchase is not definitive yet, nothing signed yet. So if I try to make sense out of it (my own opinion) Turkiye is probably trying to get a deal / license to build F110 engines. If the US does not guarantee the sale of F110 than the spare option is to buy Eurofighter and deliveries of Kaan with indigenous engine will become beyond 2030. This is how I read the situation.



As we can see, none of us know the real situation why we need the Eurofighter, everyone is trying to formulate a logical sense out of it. All viable reasonings, yet again all of them our own interpretations.

I wished SSB and our air force provided their reason. It is so flimsy when they say we need them without reasoning why, while we work hard on our own 5th generation fighter jet. I see this as sabotaging our own program .

I use the hard verdict of sabotage, cos this is the reality for or situation. We already buy 40 new F16's, add also 40 Eurofighters it makes 80 foreign aircraft which means 80 Kaan fighters less.

We do not have unlimited petro dolars like S. Arabia, if we purchase foreign jets that will translate into sacrificing in the numbers of Kaan that we will purchase. There needs to be a damn good reason to explain why we go for foreign jets instead our own product.

I hope I did not bother you too much, my aim is to provoke a real deep thought on purchasing foreign jets and the consequences of it for our own fighter program