TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[hugh]

Do you have a source about that , please?

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/paris-demands-80-workshare-franco-german-fighter-jet-says-source-2025-07-07/

 

[uçuyorum]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/paris-demands-80-workshare-franco-german-fighter-jet-says-source-2025-07-07/

If france gets 80, germans will have 15 and spain 5? How is that gonna happen? That could definitely push spain to kaan

 

[Strong AI]

Do you have a source about that , please?

As hartpunkt has now learned from well-informed sources, the French government is said to have backed Dassault's demands. Reportedly, the German Ministry of Defense has been informed that France is aiming for an 80 percent share in the workshare for the New Generation Fighter.

FCAS: Erhält Frankreich 80 Prozent am neuen New Generation Fighter?

Der Chef des französischen Flugzeugbauers Dassault, Eric Trappier, hat in der Vergangenheit bei mehreren Gelegenheiten darauf hingewiesen, dass sein Unternehmen aus seiner Sicht ohne die Unterstützung Dritter ein neues Kampfflugzeug bauen kann.

www.hartpunkt.de

The chairman of the works council at Airbus Defence and Space, Thomas Pretzl, considers the Future Combat Air System (FCAS), planned for the mid-2040s, to be absolutely necessary. However, French company Dassault Aviation is the wrong partner, Pretzl said today during a staff meeting at Airbus in Manching, according to a statement from his office. “Partnership is based on working together, not against each other. There are more attractive and suitable partners in Europe,” emphasized the works council chairman.

Airbus-Betriebsrat: Dassault für FCAS der falsche Partner

Der Betriebsratsvorsitzende von Airbus Defence and Space, Thomas Pretzl, hält das für Mitte der vierziger Jahre geplante Future Combat Air System (FCAS) für unbedingt notwendig. Die französische Dassault Aviation sei aber der falsche Partner.

www.hartpunkt.de

 

[TheInsider]

As I said, FCAS is dead. If France does it alone, it will have double the cost of Rafale. Tempest will have problems too just wait and see.

 

[hugh]

If france gets 80, germans will have 15 and spain 5? How is that gonna happen? That could definitely push spain to kaan

it's not a real proposition. they know it won't be accepted. this is France's way of saying "bugger off" to Germany. Dassault will continue the development alone.

 

[No Name]

As I said, FCAS is dead. If France does it alone, it will have double the cost of Rafale. Tempest will have problems too just wait and see.

The UK and Italy are far more reasonable than France, so they will succeed. That said, Japan won't let any more countries join the program.

Which will save the plane from becoming the same mess as the Eurofighter.

 

[TheInsider]

The UK and Italy are far more reasonable than France, so they will succeed. That said, Japan won't let any more countries join the program.

Which will save the plane from becoming the same mess as the Eurofighter.

Tempest will likely succeed but will face problems. The first one will be an overwhelming price tag.

 

[No Name]

Tempest will likely succeed but will face problems. The first one will be an overwhelming price tag.

Do we even know the price tag? or have any idea what the most costly technologies to be added to Tempest are?

 

[Spitfire9]

Tempest will likely succeed but will face problems. The first one will be an overwhelming price tag.

It will no doubt be very expensive. However if the partners were to order standard aircraft (perhaps 350+) production cost might be more reasonable. If Canada ordered some, too, even better.

 

[TheInsider]

First Kaan with a national engine will be delivered in 2032

You can watch the rest of the interview with English subtitles. Turn on subtitles and use auto translation. It does a good job.

 

[Zafer]

2032 is when you want to make safe bet.

 

[Yasar_TR]

First Kaan with a national engine will be delivered in 2032

You can watch the rest of the interview with English subtitles. Turn on subtitles and use auto translation. It does a good job.

One thing I would like to know why none of these interviewers ever ask the guy : “You are planning to serially produce Hurjet and Kaan. But have you guaranteed Supply of engines for these planes?“

 

[Strong AI]

One thing I would like to know why none of these interviewers ever ask the guy : “You are planning to serially produce Hurjet and Kaan. But have you guaranteed Supply of engines for these planes?“

Defense related (actually all kind of) journalism in Türkiye is a joke.

"We expect good news about HÜRJET's engine any day now."

 

[BalkanTurk90]

One thing I would like know why none of these interviewers ever ask the guy : “You are planning to serially produce Hurjet and Kaan. But have you guaranteed Supply of engines for these planes?“

Kaan will have its national engine
Aslo hurjet can be equiped with future Baykar 20k lbs engine or russian, chiba , europian one of US refuse to sell

 

[Yasar_TR]

Kaan will have its national engine
Aslo hurjet can be equiped with future Baykar 20k lbs engine or russian, chiba , europian one of US refuse to sell

From 2028 till 2032, until first domestic engined KAAN is delivered in 2032, there will be 40-60 KAANs produced with F110 engines. That is 90-130 engines from US (including spares). Those engines need congressional approval.
Hurjet for TurAF needs at least 100 F404 engines. They too need congressional approval.
Without those US engines these two planes and their program are doomed and have to wait until domestic engines are ready.
For KAAN that is supposed to be 2032, provided there are no unforeseen delays.
For Hurjet, if Congress approval is not obtained, then best quick option is EJ200.
Can you really believe that a company like Baykar, who has never produced a jet engine before, never mind a turbofan, will be able to produce a 12000lbf dry thrust turbofan engine in such a short time? The guy is talking about serial production of 16 planes in 2026, when he has no guaranteed delivery of f404 engines. This is a class of engine only a handful of countries have the technology of. A company like Safran of France took exactly 10 years to produce a comparable engine in M88 that propels Rafale.
Our only option for Hurjet in the event of non delivery by US and no EJ200, for TEI to produce it after TF10000. (Or redesign Hurjet for twin TF10000 engines to save time)

 

[Merzifonlu]

@Yasar_TR

If the F110 engines cannot be procured, I believe we will have to resort to a rather risky course of action. That risky course is this: Delivering the Block 10 Kaans using immature TF35000 engines, which offer F110 thrust values. This would save the Kaan program from a complete collapse.

Even then, by my estimate, the Kaan program would be delayed by approximately two years. The first Kaans would be delivered in 2030, not 2028, at the best.
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However, if the F404 engines cannot be procured, the Hürjet program would certainly collapse. Because, a) There is no money or manpower to redesign the aircraft, as Temel Kotil has said; and b) Developing a new engine would take 10 years, at the best!
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I believe the USA will not finalize the F404 procurement until the fate of the Boeing T7 is clear. If T7 fails, i believe USA will deliver the F404s. Because in that case, the USA will also need Hürjet. I cannot predict what the USA will do regarding the F110. If the T7 doesn't fail, will the US deliver the F404s? Just like with the F110s, I can't predict that.

 

[uçuyorum]

I doubt more than 20 Kaan will be procured with F110 in any scenario

 

[No Name]

@Yasar_TR

If the F110 engines cannot be procured, I believe we will have to resort to a rather risky course of action. That risky course is this: Delivering the Block 10 Kaans using immature TF35000 engines, which offer F110 thrust values. This would save the Kaan program from a complete collapse.

Even then, by my estimate, the Kaan program would be delayed by approximately two years. The first Kaans would be delivered in 2030, not 2028, at the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, if the F404 engines cannot be procured, the Hürjet program would certainly collapse. Because, a) There is no money or manpower to redesign the aircraft, as Temel Kotil has said; and b) Developing a new engine would take 10 years, at the best!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe the USA will not finalize the F404 procurement until the fate of the Boeing T7 is clear. If T7 fails, i believe USA will deliver the F404s. Because in that case, the USA will also need Hürjet. I cannot predict what the USA will do regarding the F110. If the T7 doesn't fail, will the US deliver the F404s? Just like with the F110s, I can't predict that.

Couldn't Spain get the engines for the Hürjet from the U.S.?

If the KAAN is going to use the TF35000 engine while it's still immature, wouldn't it be better to give the KAAN the ability to operate as a drone fighter? That way, no pilot would be at risk in case of an incident."

 

[Zafer]

From 2028 till 2032, until first domestic engined KAAN is delivered in 2032, there will be 40-60 KAANs produced with F110 engines. That is 90-130 engines from US (including spares). Those engines need congressional approval.
Hurjet for TurAF needs at least 100 F404 engines. They too need congressional approval.
Without those US engines these two planes and their program are doomed and have to wait until domestic engines are ready.
For KAAN that is supposed to be 2032, provided there are no unforeseen delays.
For Hurjet, if Congress approval is not obtained, then best quick option is EJ200.
Can you really believe that a company like Baykar, who has never produced a jet engine before, never mind a turbofan, will be able to produce a 12000lbf dry thrust turbofan engine in such a short time? The guy is talking about serial production of 16 planes in 2026, when he has no guaranteed delivery of f404 engines. This is a class of engine only a handful of countries have the technology of. A company like Safran of France took exactly 10 years to produce a comparable engine in M88 that propels Rafale.
Our only option for Hurjet in the event of non delivery by US and no EJ200, for TEI to produce it after TF10000. (Or redesign Hurjet for twin TF10000 engines to save time)

Where do the 40-60 numbers come from, source please?

 

[boredaf]

Couldn't Spain get the engines for the Hürjet from the U.S.?

If the KAAN is going to use the TF35000 engine while it's still immature, wouldn't it be better to give the KAAN the ability to operate as a drone fighter? That way, no pilot would be at risk in case of an incident."

There is no capability to use a plane like a drone, in any country on the planet, in a full combat situation. Just tests and plans.

And, risking a plane that cost 100 million dollars and precious resources like that is insane. And not just because of the loss of resources and time, but because you risk letting your enemy get their hands on it.

(Or redesign Hurjet for twin TF10000 engines to save time)

That would take a lot of time as well though. They would have to start the whole design and testing processes from the very start and I don't see how it would be beneficial at all to go through all that for a trainer that could at best be a light fighter.