TECHINT Turkey's Nuclear Weapons Development Projects

[Nilgiri]

A useful addendum:

Stopping Korea from Going Nuclear, Part II | National Security Archive

Washington, D.C., April 12, 2017 – The Ford administration had to use a combination of approaches to keep South Korea’s Park dictatorship from going forward with a suspected nuclear weapons program in the mid-1970s, according to documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George...

nsarchive.gwu.edu

@Windchime @Chocopie @Baljak et al.

 

[Rodeo]

Turkiye has no interest in producing nuclear bombs. But that doesn't mean it can't do so if circumstances force it to. We need to make this distinction very clear.

What difference does this make? The fact is we don't have it. Developing and testing of the nuclear bomb and the delivery vehicle take time. Our ability to develop them can cause no deterrence which is the sole benefit of having them in the first place.

The nuclear industry that is currently being created in our country is entirely aimed at energy independence.

Can you tell us more about it?

 

[Brokengineer]

Turkiye with potential threats around its borders and so called "allies" cannot justify the peace policy. Nuclear weapons are there make the country deterrent enough, not for throwing threats.
If you do not have it, your neighbour makes a stragtegic defense agreement with some nuclear powers and claims that they have a nuclear power behind them. This is even enough reason to develop your own nuclear weapons. We definitely need mrbm with nuclear warheads. Then those claims of some neighbours would be buried under the ground.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Turkiye with potential threats around its borders and so called "allies" cannot justify the peace policy. Nuclear weapons are there make the country deterrent enough, not for throwing threats.
If you do not have it, your neighbour makes a stragtegic defense agreement with some nuclear powers and claims that they have a nuclear power behind them. This is even enough reason to develop your own nuclear weapons. We definitely need mrbm with nuclear warheads. Then those claims of some neighbours would be buried under the ground.

Exactly, Türkiye 100% needs Nukes that can reach ANY country on this planet. And not just a few...

 

[what]

Exactly, Türkiye 100% needs Nukes that can reach ANY country on this planet. And not just a few...

In case war breaks out with New Zealand, I suppose.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

In case war breaks out with New Zealand, I suppose.

Yes, New Zealand. Exactly...

 

[Heartbang]

In case war breaks out with New Zealand, I suppose.

They could use a nuke or two when this WEF-sponsored new world order is established and all the global elite who established it ran away there to take refuge.

 

[Chocopie]

A useful addendum:

Stopping Korea from Going Nuclear, Part II | National Security Archive

Washington, D.C., April 12, 2017 – The Ford administration had to use a combination of approaches to keep South Korea’s Park dictatorship from going forward with a suspected nuclear weapons program in the mid-1970s, according to documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George...

nsarchive.gwu.edu

@Windchime @Chocopie @Baljak et al.

Interesting find. It‘s well known that Park Chung Hee had serious nuclear ambitions. And all his subordinates were telling lies like hell to the nervous Muricans, hahaha.

The French were more than interested in selling the processing plant but the US side pressed them to cancel the deal. Without French tech transfer Israel wouldn‘t have the bomb either.

As a compensation the Americans shared civil nuclear tech (Westinghouse) which propelled Korean atomic industry. Korea exported reactors to UAE, supplies Russian reactor project in Egypt and probably bags new reactor deals in Poland.

Nuclear weapon programs can‘t be held secret forever. Right now Korea builds triad delivery systems for nuclear warheads when breaking out becomes inevitable. This time openly for China, Japan and DPRK to see. They tested the SLBM when the Chinese foreign minister was on visit in Seoul

I come across many foreign dudes yapping about US wartime OPCON over ROK military and mock us as a vassal state. As if Korean generals would follow orders from US when shit hits the fan on our turf.

PS: very interesting that Taiwan tried to help ROK out by obtaining French processing tech. For Korea or also for themselves? They had a clandestine nuclear weapons program as well at that time or a few years later. Obviously the US stopped that program too full brake.

 

[Ryder]

In Australia will never get nuclear energy due to stupid green policies.

Even if you try convince these people with thorium.

Our future is bleak as renewable is not reliable yet we tried solar for decades still no break through. Eventhough solar today is better than the past still wont cover all our needs.

 

[GoatsMilk]

it isn't in the genes if it were the genes then the Ottoman empire would have constantly tried to be number 1. The problem is with the republic model of government it simply doesn't work for Turks, yet people across Turkey were brainwashed into loving the republic even though the republic has failed harder than the Ottomans have while dealing with far fewer problems.

In the Ottomans last 100 years as an EMPIRE they lost wars against the bulgarians, greeks, serbs, albanians, british, french, italians, austrians, not to mention getting constantly slapped about by the russians.

The republic was built on the ruins and failures of the Ottoman empire. Almost a hundred years on, the republic already has victories against the greeks.

Today no one would rationally claim that bulgaria, albania, serbia, etc would win a war against Turkiye today. Though a hundred years ago they did defeat the Ottomans.

I couldn't see britian on her own today winning a war against Turkiye in the Turks own backyard, even in 1974 the brits threatened Turkiye over Cyprus and the Turks ignored them. Very different to the British annexing the entire island of cyprus from the Ottomans without a gunshot being fired. Turkiye today has more power to combat the english over Cyprus then the Ottomans did in their 100 year downward spiral.

The french were able to land armies on Ottoman lands under Napolean and in world war one, they would stand no chance today trying to land troops in Turkiye.

As far as Russia is concerned, we got more chance today against them in war then we did as an empire in the ottomans last hundred years.

Impressive when you consider one was a transcontinental empire and the other was birthed as a small state with a small population, not out of choice but because thats what the Ottomans left the Turks, nothing.

The Ottomans were powerful at their peak and big disaster towards their end. The republic has existed almost a hundred years and she's eclipsed in power many of the states that could defeat the Ottomans a hundred years ago.

Despite everything, another 20 years of Turkish military developments and only the USA will be able to attack Turkiye successfully, a continent sized global super with a population of over 400 million.

So yeah the Ottomans at their peak were a super power, but its not the correct way to compare with Turkiye today. You have to compare the last 100 years because ultimately the reason we don't have an Ottoman empire is because the empire failed itself on its own terms. You can't go round banning the printing press and blowing up your own schools in fear that you reveal Allahs secrets, while some european powers like the Prussians already had mandatory education. When Turkiye was founded nearly the entire population couldnt read nor write. Ottomans kept the Turks dumb and ignorant for too long and the common Turks paid for it in bloodshed. Most of the descendants of the Ottoman ruling class today live in the west and married westerners.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The Ottomans did not lose to the serbs, Greeks and Albanians or the Arabs.

They lost to the Russians, French and the British.

They lost the Austrians but in the late 1700s they actually did make a good comeback by driving them away out of Serbia a fact which people love to forget.

Ottomans did actually beat Greece in the 1897 war. Ottomans actually did not bad in ww1.

Not bad for an empire thats dying off.

Do you understand what i was trying to show by comparing the last 100 years of the Ottomans to the first 100 years of the republic, to someone who wants to claim everything was great under the Ottomans and everything terrible under the republic?

The last 100 years of the Ottomans was a humiliating embarrassment. I rather have the republics first 100 years then the Ottomans last 100. The Ottomans existed over a 600 to 700 year period in an age where Turks were dominant everywhere. Ruling Persia, India and many other places.

The Turkish republic was born free and independent in an era where not only had the rest of the Turkic world succumbed to Europe but pretty much the entire world was under European domination.

Now none of us will live to see it, but we need another few hundred years to see how this era will compare with the Ottoman era.

 

[Ryder]

Do you understand what i was trying to show by comparing the last 100 years of the Ottomans to the first 100 years of the republic, to someone who wants to claim everything was great under the Ottomans and everything terrible under the republic?

The last 100 years of the Ottomans was a humiliating embarrassment. I rather have the republics first 100 years then the Ottomans last 100. The Ottomans existed over a 600 to 700 year period in an age where Turks were dominant everywhere. Ruling Persia, India and many other places.

The Turkish republic was born free and independent in an era where not only had the rest of the Turkic world succumbed to Europe but pretty much the entire world was under European domination.

Now none of us will live to see it, but we need another few hundred years to see how this era will compare with the Ottoman era.

The way I look at it good thing is that empires are dead.

They are too expensive and a pain to run.

The Ottomans more like had to fight for their survival hence why they got attacked from all sides. I think the problem was the army was diverse and multicultural.

Turkish republic with its reforms did a good job in acheiving unity in the military.

Ottomans and the Austrians had the same problem their militaries were not unified and were too diverse.

Ottomans were an empire while the Turkish republic is a nation state with a republic.

Its comparing apples and oranges. But I still believe the Turkish republic will be stronger than our predcessors thanks to the power of technology.

Our forefathers would faint at the sight of drones and missiles.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The way I look at it good thing is that empires are dead.

They are too expensive and a pain to run.

The Ottomans more like had to fight for their survival hence why they got attacked from all sides. I think the problem was the army was diverse and multicultural.

Turkish republic with its reforms did a good job in acheiving unity in the military.

Ottomans and the Austrians had the same problem their militaries were not unified and were too diverse.

Ottomans were an empire while the Turkish republic is a nation state with a republic.

Its comparing apples and oranges. But I still believe the Turkish republic will be stronger than our predcessors thanks to the power of technology.

Our forefathers would faint at the sight of drones and missiles.

Its all diverting from my point, my point was that ultimately his comment was a very ignorant driven way to look at things. The republic for all its failings, is much better today with far more potential for growth and achievement then the Ottomans in their last 100 years. The last 100 years of the Ottomans was basically a never ending nightmare. Corruption had rotted that state from within completely. It became so weak that Christians couldn't even be tried in Ottoman courts. The Ottomans in some places had no legal power over their own christian subjects. Imagine today Britian or France not being able to try their muslim citizens in their own courts, instead those courts are controlled by Turkiye or some other Muslim majority state. Absolute madness. Imagine some isis terrorist with british citerzenship returned to england and then a saudi court in england declared him innocent. This is what the dying Ottomans were under.

 

[Ryder]

Its all diverting from my point, my point was that ultimately his comment was a very ignorant driven way to look at things. The republic for all its failings, is much better today with far more potential for growth and achievement then the Ottomans in their last 100 years. The last 100 years of the Ottomans was basically a never ending nightmare. Corruption had rotted that state from within completely. It became so weak that Christians couldn't even be tried in Ottoman courts. The Ottomans in some places had no legal power over their own christian subjects. Imagine today Britian or France not being able to try their muslim citizens in their own courts, instead those courts are controlled by Turkiye or some other Muslim majority state. Absolute madness. Imagine some isis terrorist with british citerzenship returned to england and then a saudi court in england declared him innocent. This is what the dying Ottomans were under.

Honestly its a good thing we have all these weapons.

Despite how destructive they are they are perfect deterrents.

I dont think anybody can invade the Turkish homeland like they use to.

Ottomans like all empires got too big their mentality was we are too big to collapse and too strong.

Until centuries later their capital was threatened and the homeland itself.

Something of a life lesson nothing lasts forever and never get too arrogant and prideful.

I do honestly believe the Greeks and Armenians are in this pathetic state because they became too prideful to the point where they saw everybody beneath now look at the results.

 

[Gary]

Don't really want to poke at other governmental systems. But There seems no correlation between monarchies, republics and dictatorship.

Many of these "dictator" monarchies has better HR records and stable life for its citizens than many republics. And most of them seems wealthier.

Royal Malaysia is wealthier than Republic of Indonesia, Royalist Arabia (UAE,Qatar,Kuwait and Saudi) wealthier and better managed than Arab republics of Syria,Egypt,Yemen,Sudan. Royalist Iran 》》》》》Islamic republic Iran etc. Royalist Sweden, Norway and zdenmark consistently on top of HR score and life quality. "Imperial" Japan being role model in Asia.


Ok back to topic, a nuclear capable Turkiye would need equally capable delivery system. That means parallel program for long range ballistic missile.

 

[No Name]

The Ottomans did not lose to the serbs, Greeks and Albanians or the Arabs.

They lost to the Russians, French and the British.

They lost the Austrians but in the late 1700s they actually did make a good comeback by driving them away out of Serbia a fact which people love to forget.

Ottomans did actually beat Greece in the 1897 war. Ottomans actually did not bad in ww1.

Not bad for an empire thats dying off.

How did former lands like the Serbs and Greeks beat the Ottomans last time I checked they usually got slapped one on one wars until the British and russians bailed them out.

Balkan wars happened thanks to the Russians and the British. Lets not forget the Italians who invaded Libya the Ottomans were at their death bed still took a Balkan alliance just to beat them.


Ottoman Empire was a 600 year empire that went from its birth, to rise and its peak all the way to its distarous collapse.

600 years of history should not be overlooked due to its bad moments.

Turkish republic is also now going to be 100 years old. Turkish republic may not have had such moments compared to the Ottomans because its relatively young.

Turkish republic also has its good and bad moments.

The problem is that all of its good moments are during the AK party, and they are a political party that seems to go against the idea of the republic in the first place. I'm not saying that the AK party is great, but they are most likely the best government that came out of the republic since the start of the multiparty period which is kind of sad.

 

[dBSPL]

What difference does this make? The fact is we don't have it. Developing and testing of the nuclear bomb and the delivery vehicle take time. Our ability to develop them can cause no deterrence which is the sole benefit of having them in the first place.

There's a big difference. When TR takes this path, it will face great pressure. So when facing this pressure, the only missing piece you need must be warheads. You need to have already overcome the main technical challenges that constitute nuclear deterrence which consists of dozens of different disciplines, especially the carrier(combatant aircrafts) platforms, reentry vehicles ,launch or rocketry technologies. You do not need to launch the 'yerli ve milli 'Manhatten Project to complete these preparations. Achieving the goals in the areas of Energy, Space and Propulsion etc. will already gradually bring you to this point.

Can you tell us more about it?

What I am talking about is the work and developments in the field of nuclear energy.

Turkiye is currently undergoing a significant institutionalization in the field of nuclear energy. The milestone in this regard was the establishment of the Nuclear and Radiological Regulatory Authority (NRDK) instead of TAEK. Within this framework, the nuclear energy sector started to be restructured with the NRDK, and now all phases of nuclear energy are under the supervision and control of the NRDK. Thus, work that had been stalled for decades in one way or another gained momentum. The first power plant in Akkuyu, the second in Sinop and the third in İğneada were determined by the NRDK draft. On the other hand, with the relevant legal regulations, state-owned companies will be able to build and participate in nuclear power plants both at home and abroad, if the Ministry of Energy assigns them to do so. While the government has awarded the tender for the first plant in Akkuyu to Russia, work is underway for the second plant to be built in Sinop. The main goal here is to achieve gradual indigenization through the construction of nuclear power plants, and eventually to become capable of designing and building reactors with the participation of TR's homegrown workforce and sectoral capabilities. Therefore, the bureaucratic and legal infrastructure, which is the most important need here, has been completed. From now on, it is a matter of Turkiye's economic capabilities.

 

[No Name]

Honestly its a good thing we have all these weapons.

Despite how destructive they are they are perfect deterrents.

I dont think anybody can invade the Turkish homeland like they use to.

Ottomans like all empires got too big their mentality was we are too big to collapse and too strong.

Until centuries later their capital was threatened and the homeland itself.

Something of a life lesson nothing lasts forever and never get too arrogant and prideful.

I do honestly believe the Greeks and Armenians are in this pathetic state because they became too prideful to the point where they saw everybody beneath now look at the results.

"I dont think anybody can invade the Turkish homeland like they use to."

That is because wars cost too much and the economic incentives are not there, plus the most innovation was cared out by nations with a population five times larger than turkey there aren't that many countries like that a more, especially ones that have the economic power to finance such a war. In other words, the only country that can invade turkey would be the United States which may or may not be planning to do so considering all their military build-up around Turkey's border.

"Ottomans like all empires got too big their mentality was we are too big to collapse and too strong. Until centuries later their capital was threatened and the homeland itself. Something of a life lesson nothing lasts forever and never get too arrogant and prideful."

actually, this was not the case the Ottoman sultans were well aware of the problems facing the empire and were actively trying to reform as far back as the start of the 1600s. The notion that the Ottoman empire was a stagnant force was bullshit invented by the orientalist.

The problem with the ottoman empire was that local rulers teamed up with conservatives to stop the sultans. The problems faced by the sultans were made far worse thanks to both the mountain terrain of the Balkans and Anatolia mixed with the effect of the little-ice age which created large-scale instability thus forcing them to give local autonomy to the local rulers. The same groups that opposed the sultan's reforms later gave their support to Menderes, and then with time, the local rulers would be replaced by small-scale industrialists that now support Erdoğan.

In other words, the ottoman government was arrogant it was just stuck on a hard place yet it kept trying to make the best of its situation un unlike the republic which is complacent.

Its all diverting from my point, my point was that ultimately his comment was a very ignorant driven way to look at things. The republic for all its failings, is much better today with far more potential for growth and achievement then the Ottomans in their last 100 years. The last 100 years of the Ottomans was basically a never ending nightmare. Corruption had rotted that state from within completely. It became so weak that Christians couldn't even be tried in Ottoman courts. The Ottomans in some places had no legal power over their own christian subjects. Imagine today Britian or France not being able to try their muslim citizens in their own courts, instead those courts are controlled by Turkiye or some other Muslim majority state. Absolute madness. Imagine some isis terrorist with british citerzenship returned to england and then a saudi court in england declared him innocent. This is what the dying Ottomans were under.

"Its all diverting from my point, my point was that ultimately his comment was a very ignorant driven way to look at things. The republic for all its failings, is much better today with far more potential for growth and achievement then the Ottomans in their last 100 years."


Of course, the Ottomans existed in a cut-throat world the republic has existed in a world in which the kid gloves are on yet it still failed to overcome the same issues face by the Ottomans.


"The last 100 years of the Ottomans was basically a never ending nightmare. Corruption had rotted that state from within completely."

I fail to see how that is different to todays republic except for the Sultans of old actually did try to stop corruption, unlike today’s government that actually encourages it.

"It became so weak that Christians couldn't even be tried in Ottoman courts. The Ottomans, in some places had no legal power over their own Christian subjects. Imagine today Britain or France not being able to try their Muslim citizens in their own courts, instead, those courts are controlled by Turkiye or some other Muslim majority state. Absolute madness. Imagine some isis terrorist with British citizenship returned to England and then a Saudi court in England declared him innocent. This is what the dying Ottomans were under."

I do not need to imagine that since it still happens in today’s Turkey with the PKK the Turkish government arrested a German citizen that has given support to the PKK and the Europeans forced turkey to let them go. The difference now is the same system isn’t as formal, and the excuse of human rights is used.

 

[dBSPL]

you might want to tell Erdoğan to shut up then. I agree that Turkey needs Nuclear power for civilian use not military, sadly renewable energy is not reliable, and coal is too harmful.

There is a country in the region that independently possesses these nuclear weapons of mass destruction and has the capability to use them independently, and this country has had this capability not now but probably for more than years. You won't find a politician or a journalist in the world who emphasizes how big a risk this country poses, it's not even mentioned in forums like this, but when someone says something about the 'balance of terror' against this risk, it's perceived as a declaration of intent, which is a result of very deliberate perception management.

 

[No Name]

There's a big difference. When TR takes this path, it will face great pressure. So when facing this pressure, the only missing piece you need must be warheads. You need to have already overcome the main technical challenges that constitute nuclear deterrence which consists of dozens of different disciplines, especially the carrier(combatant aircrafts) platforms, reentry vehicles ,launch or rocketry technologies. You do not need to launch the 'yerli ve milli 'Manhatten Project to complete these preparations. Achieving the goals in the areas of Space and Propulsion will already gradually bring you to this point.



What I am talking about is the work and developments in the field of nuclear energy.

Turkiye is currently undergoing a significant institutionalization in the field of nuclear energy. The milestone in this regard was the establishment of the Nuclear and Radiological Regulatory Authority (NRDK) instead of TAEK. Within this framework, the nuclear energy sector started to be restructured with the NRDK, and now all phases of nuclear energy are under the supervision and control of the NRDK. Thus, work that had been stalled for decades in one way or another gained momentum. The first power plant in Akkuyu, the second in Sinop and the third in İğneada were determined by the NRDK draft. On the other hand, with the relevant legal regulations, state-owned companies will be able to build and participate in nuclear power plants both at home and abroad, if the Ministry of Energy assigns them to do so. While the government has awarded the tender for the first plant in Akkuyu to Russia, work is underway for the second plant to be built in Sinop. The main goal here is to achieve gradual indigenization through the construction of nuclear power plants, and eventually to become capable of designing and building reactors with the participation of TR's homegrown workforce and sectoral capabilities. Therefore, the bureaucratic and legal infrastructure, which is the most important need here, has been completed. From now on, it is a matter of Turkiye's economic capabilities.

I'm guessing this is why so many western governments are concerned about turkey's civilian space and nuclear program. I personally think it is better to concentrate on economic grain rather than the military as a good economy is another form of deterrent.