TR Turkish Air Defence Programs

Khagan1923

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Hisar O+ system has been delivered to Turkish Armed Forces with all it’s ancillary equipment and elements.
So that means the short and medium altitude air defence systems for Turkey are now operational.
Next in line is the Siper, which will complete the first part of the AD needs of our military for the time being.
Then it is Siper with anti Ballistic Missile capability to come yet.
View attachment 38783

Gonna guess the delivered system was the latest prototype system and serial production has not yet started.
 

BalkanTurk90

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Can Hisar O shoot down F16 or Su 35 if something go wrong ?😄😄
Or can be the opposite ? Fighter Aircraft sent cruise missile 100km away and destroy Hisar O Then comes question , Can Hisar O destroy Small Missiles?
 

Cabatli_53

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Network centric Turkish SAM layers

Korkut: 4km
Sungur: 8 km range, 4km altitude
Hisar-A+: 15km range(not max range), 10km altitude
Hisar-O+: 25km range(not max range), 15km altitude
Hisar-Rf: 35km range(not max range), 15km altitude
Siper Blk-1: up to 100km range, 20+km altitude
Siper Blk-2: up to 150km range, 25+km altitude
Siper Blk3: Anti-ballistic missile system (2025-2026)


Hisar-O can of course shoot down a cruise missile. This is the purpose of the development of this missile but the main issue should be evaluated in terms of the umbrellas that a missile dropped by an enemy warplane from kms away must penetrate. This architecture is part of the whole and a target detected by EIRS or AIR radars will automatically activate the whole system.
 

AzeriTank

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Can Hisar O shoot down F16 or Su 35 if something go wrong ?😄😄
Or can be the opposite ? Fighter Aircraft sent cruise missile 100km away and destroy Hisar O Then comes question , Can Hisar O destroy Small Missiles?
the main job of Hisar-o is to save the area from incoming missiles. you know, these days, jets dont come close to drop a bomb on top of you. a simple dumb bomb with a wing kit able to go more than 100km away and hit the target with 3-5 meters accuracy. just look at Syria, Russia got the technology to shoot down jets,(their radar could be jammed easily, thats another story) but they cannot shoot down incoming Israeli missiles. thats where is the Hisar family is very important. it is should be cheap, thats why they dont try to increase the hit radius.
to answer your question, yes, if it is able to hit missiles, it can also hit coming jets, but most probably they will face each other very few time or simply never unless you hide them somewhere.
Also, but looking at the hisars frame, its also designed to be able to stop supersonic missiles, same like aster 15. basically, in any project, Turkey think 10-20 years ahead. because in 10-20 years, many navies will develop supersonic antiship or air to ground missiles, with ramjet or simply adding small ballistic missiles onto UAV and jets.
 
T

Turko

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I don't have range obsession regarding Turkish SAMs. Vice versa the Minumum range of our missiles is more important for me As they have very short reaction time before
a cruise missile which avoids long range radars.

I would prefer some Hisar A SAMs launching horizontally rather than vertically because it would give shorter reaction time.

Another important point is our missiles should work under EW , i really wonder what kind of radar seekers SIPER has? Could it be AESA ?

Also i don't want a cheap SAM which can engage just on Soviet fighters.


https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianDefense/comments/oe071b
 
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T

Turko

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If SIPER is cold launched from MIDAS either EDAS, do you really think you could fit in the canister 4 missiles?
VLS-Mk-41-Missile-Canisters-1211-rv1_0.png


essm-mk25.jpg

You can fit and launch 4x RIM-162 into MK25 canister as MK 41 VLS using hot launch system however the cold launch system requires pressured canisters and additional parts.

We all would accept that SIPER is equal to ESSM and the missile wider than CAMM-ER which diameter is 190mm.
Nonetheless CAMM-ER canister diameter is 27.5x27.5 while ESSMs 25x25 inches



Quadpacking SIPER seems to me not easy .

I'm looking forward to seeing MIDAS/EDAS.
 
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Brave Janissary

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If SIPER is cold launched from MIDAS either EDAS, do you really think you could fit in the canister 4 missiles?
View attachment 38805

View attachment 38806
You can fit and launch 4x RIM-162 into MK25 canister as MK 41 VLS using hot launch system however the cold launch system requires pressured canisters and additional parts.

We all would accept that SIPER is equal to ESSM and the missile wider than CAMM-ER which diameter is 190mm.
Nonetheless CAMM-ER canister diameter is 27.5x27.5 while ESSMs 25x25 inches



Quadpacking SIPER seems to me not easy .

I'm looking forward to seeing MIDAS/EDAS.
Actually quadpack is not related mk-41 or mdas. İt's related catridge who your placed into vls tube into second picture you shared. İn the quadpack sittuation missile doesnt placed into vls. Missiles fit into catridge and catridge into vls tube.

So if you doesnt package siper with quad type into catridge due its diameter, we can double pack him into catridge, it's easy solution for us I think. Before that usa worked on double packed sm-2's ;

144043-c662af22893711658e0ba7a0147a1cb2.jpg


Just we need doublepacked catridges and place hims to mk-41 and mdas. With this solution our i class and barbaros track II's can carry 16x siper and 32x hisar-o rf/essm . With great sensor suites this two ships will be great stop gap aaw solutions until tf-2000.

From my wiev Cenk-s+Akr-d block 2 or Smart-s mk2 s band+mar-d x band+ akr-d block 2 enough solutions for hims.

İf we can achieve doublepack sipers into i class vls's , i class will be good Fremm killers.
 
T

Turko

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I had already shared dual packed SM-2...

Anyway, Roketsan engineers must know better than me:) they must have created new VLS that different from MK41dimensions especially for SIPER. This is the best way how Lockheed Martin designed ExLS for CAMM-ER dimensions.

We are just excited and don't want to wait to see new VLS. Please reveal it and its specifications. 😥🤯
large_thumbnail.jpg


If I-Class have additional Gökdeniz ER missiles plus to current weapons, the ship will be real FREMM killer.
 
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TRANSVARO Attracts Attention with FEDAI Mobile Aerial Destruction Platform at SAHA EXPO 2021​

January 21, 2022

6e10eba2-d56f-40bd-a3c2-cba6682d870f.jpg

HAVELSAN Business Development Manager Nezih ŞİŞMAN made a presentation within the scope of the 3rd International Military Radar and Border Security Summit, which was held at Hacettepe Beytepe Congress Center on October 5-6, 2021, HAVELSAN Integrated UAV Detection & Defense System (HVL) developed in cooperation with solution partners TRANSVARO. He shared striking information on the FEDAI Suicide UAV System, which is a part of the EİTSS) solution. At SAHA EXPO 2021, TRANSVARO introduced its unique solution, TRV-DROKA + FEDAİ Modular UAV Detection, Recognition & Protection System, and the FEDAİ 101 Mobile Airborne Destruction Platform (Loitering Missile UAV Killer) used in the first flight/fire tests carried out in October 2021. exhibited at its stand. TRANSVARO, As of November, the performance-enhancing development and improvement (for example, on the patented wing opening mechanism) on FEDAI 101 was continuing. The company aimed to carry out the first explosive hit test and firing acceptance tests with a shot to be made from multiple launch pads in the spring, after making FEDAI 101 fully ready and obtaining special permissions until the spring of 2022. The improved version of FEDAI 101, FEDAI 102, is planned to be tested at the end of 2022.
WhatsApp%20Image%202022-01-21%20at%2012_46_52.jpeg

Güray Ali CANLI, Member of the Executive Board of TRANSVARO, whom I had the opportunity to meet at the stand, shared the following information about the FEDAİ Mobile Airborne Disposal Platform, which was developed against Kamikaze Drones and has a body made entirely of carbon fiber material: “FEDAİ is a part of the system we call Drone Killer. . It is doing the following for the first time in the world; It aims at the target with radar, tracks with video, and when it approaches its target, it explodes with LIDAR. This is not in the world. The second thing is the wing opening movement. It's an airplane, it glides when you turn off its engine. As the other models stay in the air with the power of the engine and do not have the gliding feature we call 'free gliding', they all fall down when the engine is turned off. What does this give us; It provides a very important control advantage and the ability to stay in the air longer.”
WhatsApp%20Image%202022-01-21%20at%2012_46_51.jpeg

TRANSVARO TRV-DROKA + FEDAİ Modular UAV Detection, Recognition & Protection System; TRV/GSR 0802 3D Drone Detection Radar (detection range 6km+), TRV/Guard 21 EOS System (detection range 23.4km for a
2.3x2.3m target) and TRV-LDR-100 LIDAR (detection range of a drone with 2m wingspan/ 1km for UAV), HRFD-U360 RF Sensor (300MHz-6,000MHz operating frequency range, detection distance 5km and above) and Acoustic UAV Detection System products. The UAV Prevention System is; It consists of RF Jammer (working in 7 separate bands for drones), HPEM UAV Defense System (200m effective range against Swarm UAV attack, the last line of defense for autonomous drones and drone swarms) and FEDAI Mobile Airborne Destruction Platform solutions.

WhatsApp%20Image%202022-01-21%20at%2012_46_52%20(1).jpeg


FEDAİ 101 with a length of 1.1 m, a wingspan of 2 m and a weight of 7 kg, can climb to a maximum speed of 140 km per hour and an altitude of 1,200 m from the ground (AGL / Above Ground Level), while FEDAI 102 with a length of 1.4 m, a wingspan of 2.35 m and a weight of 8.5 kg can reach a speed of 153 km / h. and 5,000m altitude (thanks to a more powerful engine and different wing and tail structure). While FEDAI 101 has a range of 40 km, this value is 65 km in FEDAI 102. Both Mobile Airborne Disposal Platforms can stay in the air for 35 minutes. While the fragment effect of the 1.7kg Semtex/HMX-2 warhead (exploding in a forward conical manner) in FEDAI 101 is effective in an area of 50m, the 2.4kg Semtex/HMX-2 warhead used in FEDAI 102 (previously with 1kg of thermobaric PBX explosive. It was shared that there were 000 particles) the effect diameter was given as 60m. Both platforms have parachute landing feature and can be launched from a single launcher or multiple launch pads (in 4x3, 6x4 and 8x5 designs).

WhatsApp%20Image%202022-01-21%20at%2012_46_52%20(2).jpeg


The working principle of TRV-DROKA + FEDAİ Modular UAV Detection, Recognition & Protection System can be summarized as follows: The drone/UAV is detected with 3D radar on the ground, then the EO System confirms that the detected element is a threat and determines the meeting coordinate with the target. Subsequently, this information is uploaded to FEDAI's autopilot on the ground. Then, the FEDAI Mobile Airborne Destruction Platform is launched towards the determined rendezvous coordinate (the point that will remain in the FEDAI's line of sight [FoV]). FEDAI, which performs its flight automatically to the estimated meeting point with the help of autopilot, starts tracking the target by activating the seeker head (day/night and thermal cameras and LIDAR available) in the nose from a certain distance. How to detonate the warhead by activating the LIDAR system when the FEDAI is within 70m of the target (if the only target is on the front, flock UAV is in the middle part) decides itself. When necessary, the warhead on the FEDAI can be detonated manually from the ground. In cases where two separate FEDAIs are thrown at a target, if the target is hit, the second FEDAI can be detonated in the air (if it is a duty area above the residential area) or
parachuted to the ground (outside of residential areas) to be used again. FEDAI is capable of being fired from S/UAV if desired. When used on S/UAV, it can be carried with the wings open, as well as in a tube to be attached under the wing.
Thermal cameras, LIDAR, 3D radar and auto-pilot are domestic products in the FEDAİ Suicide UAV System with ITAR-Free structure, while the battery and electric motor in the status of commercial products can be obtained from different sources. Indigenization of the warhead continues with the image processing card supplied from outside in the prototype system.


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Yasar

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Actually quadpack is not related mk-41 or mdas. İt's related catridge who your placed into vls tube into second picture you shared. İn the quadpack sittuation missile doesnt placed into vls. Missiles fit into catridge and catridge into vls tube.

So if you doesnt package siper with quad type into catridge due its diameter, we can double pack him into catridge, it's easy solution for us I think. Before that usa worked on double packed sm-2's ;

144043-c662af22893711658e0ba7a0147a1cb2.jpg


Just we need doublepacked catridges and place hims to mk-41 and mdas. With this solution our i class and barbaros track II's can carry 16x siper and 32x hisar-o rf/essm . With great sensor suites this two ships will be great stop gap aaw solutions until tf-2000.

From my wiev Cenk-s+Akr-d block 2 or Smart-s mk2 s band+mar-d x band+ akr-d block 2 enough solutions for hims.

İf we can achieve doublepack sipers into i class vls's , i class will be good Fremm killers.
We are in agreement with all but the last statement. How are you going to kill Fremm frigates with Siper missiles?
Unless you mean the I-Class will be superior to Fremm with the addition of twin packed Sipers.
 

TheInsider

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Naval air defense missiles can be used against surface targets in a secondary role. Air defense missiles are very fast and agile so stopping them is very hard.
 

Yasar

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Naval air defense missiles can be used against surface targets in a secondary role. Air defense missiles are very fast and agile so stopping them is very hard.
Yes we know that. We were even on the receiving end of it. (Muavenet with 2 sea sparrow missiles was hit in 1992).
But does Siper missile have surface to surface attack formation built in it’s operational envelope? Or does that capability come automatically?
 

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Before our esteemed members enlighten us regarding the Siper missiles’ operational envelope information, I would like to ask another question about using SAMs as Anti Ship missiles;
How effective can they be with around 15kg of explosives? (SAMP/T Aster series have 15kg explosives)

Now, if a missile travelling at 4 Mach hits a ship, there is no hull that can withstand it. It will rip right through. But will it be enough to decommission a 4-6000ton frigate? Also can the range of a SAM used as an anti ship missile be as good as a say Atmaca or Brahmos? (250+km or 500km respectively)
 

TheInsider

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Yes we know that. We were even on the receiving end of it. (Muavenet with 2 sea sparrow missiles was hit in 1992).
But does Siper missile have surface to surface attack formation built in it’s operational envelope? Or does that capability come automatically?
SM-1, SM-2, ESSM, ESSM-2 has that capability. I don't know if Siper will have that ability but it should have. The engagement is similar to engaging airborne targets. If the missile has an active RF seeker you update the missile with target coordinates until its active RF seeker locks on the target. If it has semi active radar seeker the target must be illuminated by an illumination radar (Muavenet accident! happened like that) The damage will be comparable to the damage of the Muavenet frigate. Maybe bigger because a bigger missile carries more energy. Most of the time higher sections of the enemy ship are targeted to knock out either valuable sensors or the bridge to kill commanding officers.
 

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As part of our layered AD system Sungur is the missile at the bottom of the layers after Korkut.
It is now becoming physically available as an AD system in TSK’s inventory

1643640797656.jpeg
 

BalkanTurk90

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As part of our layered AD system Sungur is the missile at the bottom of the layers after Korkut.
It is now becoming physically available as an AD system in TSK’s inventory

View attachment 39287
Any news about Korkut AD , How many are produced until now ?
Or producrion its stopped ?
I dont hear nothing about it for some time 😭
 
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