TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Iskander

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
455
Reactions
9 1,271
Nation of residence
Azerbaijan
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
IMHO you do overestimate the dogfight capability of a fighter jet with a single F404 engine. A F-16 has like 11.000 lb more thrust (i think).



Yes, it will be good enough to bomb targets, which are only protected by SHORAD's.
But i think Hürjet is suboptimal for BVR, despite AESA.
Türkiye should heavily invest in ANKA-3, because the twin engine version with MURAD and maybe later with BURFIS along with GÖKHAN will be a different kind of a beast for BVR engagements.
I really wish to see the faces of Türkiye's adversaries, when ANKA-3 test fires the first time a BVR missile from its IWB.
As you probably remember, Anka3 appeared completely unexpectedly. In my opinion, it would be great to have a new Anka with a carrying capacity of several tons, with parameters several times higher than the current one. I imagine Temel Kotil with his eternal smile, like a wizard pulling a new Anka out of a hat. For some reason he is not visible. He must be working some magic again
 
Last edited:

what

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
2,162
Reactions
10 6,404
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
TuAF needs to have at least 800-1000 combat jets (UAVs etc. not included), imo. Doesn't matter if their life expectancy can be extended or not. We should always ensure to have production lines filled with our orders.

Failing to ensure that is not an option.

That said, as I said previously I still don't understand why we're not ordering 100 Hurjet, and I consider the failure to do so as treason.


We have yet to see a render of the militarized Hürjet. Would love to see 80-100 of these.

Imagine:
80 Hürjet
100+ KAAN
same number of Anka 3s
50-60 Kizilelma
+ existing F16 fleet
 

Quasar

Contributor
The Post Deleter
Messages
734
Reactions
51 3,277
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Until the arrival of KAAN, ÖZGÜR modernized F 16s will be the most advanced fighter we will have with our national weapons and systems.

the deal with US is quantitative for me - since we seem to be unable to use our national weapons on Vipers yet big amounts of missiles in the deal is understandable.

The balance between already signed ÖZGÜR project and the deal with US is vital...we will wait and see
 

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Germany Correspondent
Messages
3,030
Reactions
26 8,641
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
True. But the plan was for F-35s to replace F-4s and for TF-X to replace F-16s. Leaving a fleet of only F-35 + TFX.

Now you are planning to go for F-16Vs, Eurofighters, F-35s, TFX. Also the Ozgur, Hurjet, Kizilelma and Anka-3.

This is definitely going to cause a massive financial crisis in the TF-X and TF35K programs.
Time/Delivery
 

Scott Summers

Contributor
Messages
480
Reactions
2 779
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey

US opens F-35 window to Ankara​

Washington proposes Turkey’s conditional return to fighter jet co-production program

US opens F-35 window to Ankara


Washington has reopened the window for Ankara’s return to the F-35 co-production program, on the well-known condition that it removes its Russian S-400 missile defense system from Turkey.



Maybe good news. Greece is in panic.
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,389
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 3,837
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
While talking about a light attack variant of Hürjet, we should also keep in mind that not only we don't have a domestic engine for it, we don't even have a domestic engine project in that class. TF10000 wouldn't be enough, unless 2 of them were to be used but that would mean designing Hürjet from scratch, and TF35000 would be too much.
 

Windchime

Well-known member
Moderator
Professional
South Korea Moderator
Messages
419
Reactions
22 1,300
Nation of residence
Poland
Nation of origin
South Korea
TuAF needs to have at least 800-1000 combat jets (UAVs etc. not included), imo. Doesn't matter if their life expectancy can be extended or not. We should always ensure to have production lines filled with our orders
You are probably aware that 800 combat jets are not something Turkiye, or any European country, could actually sustain long term.
 

Windchime

Well-known member
Moderator
Professional
South Korea Moderator
Messages
419
Reactions
22 1,300
Nation of residence
Poland
Nation of origin
South Korea
We have yet to see a render of the militarized Hürjet. Would love to see 80-100 of these.

Imagine:
80 Hürjet
100+ KAAN
same number of Anka 3s
50-60 Kizilelma
+ existing F16 fleet
Current trend for MUMT seems to be 2 UCAVs to one fighter. Considering that some of the ANKA-3s would also be able to be operated from ground as AI and OCA asset, this does seem like a sweet spot. Had Turkiye been subject to stronger adversary airpower, more MIUS would've been required but under current circumstances, TISU seems like a bigger priority.
 

Windchime

Well-known member
Moderator
Professional
South Korea Moderator
Messages
419
Reactions
22 1,300
Nation of residence
Poland
Nation of origin
South Korea
No, no he isn't, a lot of people unfortunately live in a Red Alert 2 kind of reality.
Well, then it is what it is. Though they better understand that THK is already one of the biggest AF in the whole of Europe.
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
925
Reactions
13 1,519
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
No, no he isn't, a lot of people unfortunately live in a Red Alert 2 kind of reality.
We calculate price of concert ticket and number of tickets to find how much it costs randomly but don't calculate how much such things cost. Say we buy 1000 f16 that's like 300 billion usd over like 20 years or so to buy and operate
 

Scott Summers

Contributor
Messages
480
Reactions
2 779
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
You are probably aware that 800 combat jets are not something Turkiye, or any European country, could actually sustain long term.

Top 10 Largest Air Forces in the World (by number of Military Aircraft) - Flight International 2022:​


CountryAir Force
United States5,213
Russia3,864
China1,992
India1,728
Egypt1,069
North Korea947
South Korea905
Pakistan820
Japan749
Saudi Arabia690


It's a scandal that Türkiye and Germany are not even in the Top 10.

Look at those countries Egypt, North Korea, SA etc.

Especially with our TAF and our war history (same for Germany and their Luftstreitkräfte and Luftwaffe).
 

Windchime

Well-known member
Moderator
Professional
South Korea Moderator
Messages
419
Reactions
22 1,300
Nation of residence
Poland
Nation of origin
South Korea

Top 10 Largest Air Forces in the World (by number of Military Aircraft) - Flight International 2022:​


CountryAir Force
United States5,213
Russia3,864
China1,992
India1,728
Egypt1,069
North Korea947
South Korea905
Pakistan820
Japan749
Saudi Arabia690
Those numbers include every single aircraft in service, starting from ab initio trainers to SAR helos, transports, other assets etc. its not just fighters.

Again, 800 fighters are just fantasy numbers nowadays. It's not 1960s anymore.

Of course, that's unless you want to go fight Greek Rafales with SF 260 trainer. Have fun with that
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,389
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 3,837
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well, then it is what it is. Though they better understand that THK is already one of the biggest AF in the whole of Europe.
Yeah, and best way to go would be to focus on TF-X and drones, Anka-3 and KE, even then, nowhere close to an absurd number like that. Imo, KE will be more air superiority focused, as its supposed to be more agile with its body, while Anka-3 will be mainly used for SEAD-DEAD mission, but we'll see.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
970
Reactions
14 4,147
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Throw S400 into the sea were that trash belongs.

Convert the 40 F-16V order into 42 F-35A and 12-16 F-35B

Demand the 6 F-35A being stored are handed over immediately.

Have nice Air Force towards the mid 30s consisting of

48 F-35A
164 F-16 Özgür I-II
79 F-16V Block 70
TF Kaan Block 1 ~20-40
Maybe Hürjet LF ~20-30

as well as the Navy having 12-16 F-35B on Anadolu.

If B is no go than order ~60 F-35A.

my two cents. You are bound to the US either way. If I pay 20 Billion I would rather have a cutting edge jet instead of just the next best thing. Also the tears of certain people would be nice to see.

Some people need to take their heads out of the sand and see the reality we are in. Saying things like F-35 will keep us bound to the US aren't really good arguments when TF Kaan is using americans engines, as well as Hürjet, or you buying new F-16 from the same Americans. Or upgrading your existing fleet with their packages.

The S400 is useless and has no use. Get rid of it.
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,389
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 3,837
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
We calculate price of concert ticket and number of tickets to find how much it costs randomly but don't calculate how much such things cost. Say we buy 1000 f16 that's like 300 billion usd over like 20 years or so to buy and operate
Not to mention, we are not going to find and train that many pilots. Plan should be a manageable number of jets supplemented by Anka-3 and KE.
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
925
Reactions
13 1,519
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If we make a small number of heavy bombers that could actually be more useful and economical than a large fleet of fighters. Say a single bomber that can like drop dozens of guided munitions in a single sortie and could stay in air for a longer while could prove more optimal. Based on our mission profiles and proximity to operations, fewer planes could then focus on those and fighters can focus on roles only they can fullfil.
 

Bozan

Experienced member
Messages
1,518
Reactions
5 1,844
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey

US opens F-35 window to Ankara​

Washington proposes Turkey’s conditional return to fighter jet co-production program

US opens F-35 window to Ankara


Washington has reopened the window for Ankara’s return to the F-35 co-production program, on the well-known condition that it removes its Russian S-400 missile defense system from Turkey.



Maybe good news. Greece is in panic.

Well if TR is desperate, then Washington can use it to negotiate on behalf of what Washington wants.

Congress can block the delivery at any time, so until that delivery occurs, TR will have to abide by what Washington wants.

Washington is reminding Erdogan
 

dBSPL

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Ambassador
Messages
2,263
Reactions
92 11,655
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It is necessary to discuss not the number of aircraft, but the fleet size, organization and combat structure of the air force. It is a fact that the fleet structure has undergone significant changes due to the long delay of the JSF project and some squadrons have been inactivated. Of course, there are other details, especially in relation to the F-4 crash news in past... In the end, as if all these problems were not enough, the F-35 planning had to be completely scrapped.

While the Turkish air force traditionally constitutes the eastern wing of NATO, in terms of national defense, the basic doctrine of the armed forces is based on the ability to sustain an all out war against two countries simultaneously. So yes, we really need a very serious number of combat aircraft, unless we downsize. This is a transitional period in which many political mistakes have been made too and I don't think there is a correct reference to either the past or the future.

If you add the recently inactivated F-4 squadrons to the recent geopolitical developments and risks in the Turkish sphere of influence, I am of the opinion that the Air Force is aiming to have 17-18 or up to 20 combatant (+ combat reconnaissance) squadrons, and even more when indigenous platforms enter mass production. Traditionally, we tend to assume the size of combat squadrons in the Turkish Air Force to be around 20 aircraft kept in combat readiness, but in many cases it can be higher than that. These two basic assuming can also give an approximate, rough idea about potential number of platforms.

I should also add as a note that a new era is about to begin in Turkish aviation. Naval combat aviation. I think everyone agrees that this tendency of the Navy is very obvious. In the next 20 years, this breakthrough on Navy may take the balance-changing effect of national combatant platforms to another level.
 
Last edited:

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,016
Reactions
8 3,629
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
IMO Turkiye should stay far away from F35 as the aircraft is the total opposite of what we want: independence

Even with F16 we'll stay partly dependent on the USA till the 2050ties, with F35 that will become 2080.


If we want quality and quantity we need our own fighter jet not purchased ones, example is there with drones
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom