Navy Turkish Aircraft Carrier Project

[Indos]

As I said previously, US may push NATO powers and allies (Japan/SK) to have AC. South China Sea. So not surprising if even South Korea want to build it.

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Strategic competition with China is a defining feature of the 21st century. China is engaged in conduct that hurts American workers, blunts our technological edge, and threatens our alliances and our influence in international organizations," the White House press secretary said. She also said the Biden administration is eager to hold discussions with US allies as well as Republicans and Democrats in Congress to assess how to move forward in relations with the world's second-largest economy.

Biden administration to approach China with "patience": White House - World - The Jakarta Post

The remarks came after Chinese President Xi Jinping, speaking at a virtual meeting of the World Economic Forum on Monday, called for global cooperation in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic and other challenges, while warning that confrontation, including trade wars, will only end up hurting...

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[Anmdt]

If RMK has no experience, then how does MİLGEM take an important project like its corvette? If RMK has no experience, did SEDEF have? Dude since the beginning of 2000, Turkey would follow the policy. My memory never forgets some things. If the tension of the Gezi protests did not exist, we would be talking about RMK's MİLGEMs and LPD today. You would be not enumerating all these SEDEF arguments.

First:
RMK would never get both of those projects at once, it was almost absolute that those projects would never be awarded to a single shipyard (check SSB's plan from 2000s to diversify capabilities of private shipyards)
Even RMK themselves known, once they have won Milgem tender it was impossible to win LPD project.
Moreover, they have also known before winning Milgem serial production, that the project was destined to Sedef.

2nd, neither of shipyards had proper experience before. Adik didn't have experience on LSTs,
Istanbul Shipyard didn't have experience on moship ratship,
Dearsan didn't have experience on patrol boats.
I have given you details on what contributed RMK to won the tender. It was coast guard (dost class) vessel project which RMK had gained experience and know-how from Fincantieri.

Should i have started listing shipyard owners of several other shipyards and their connections with top officials? You won't be surprised to hear some shipyards are partially owned, bought by 'relatives' of some top officials.

 

[Balamir]

First:
RMK would never get both of those projects at once, it was almost absolute that those projects would never be awarded to a single shipyard (check SSB's plan from 2000s to diversify capabilities of private shipyards)
Even RMK themselves known, once they have won Milgem tender it was impossible to win LPD project.
Moreover, they have also known before winning Milgem serial production, that the project was destined to Sedef.

2nd, neither of shipyards had proper experience before. Adik didn't have experience on LSTs,
Istanbul Shipyard didn't have experience on moship ratship,
Dearsan didn't have experience on patrol boats.
I have given you details on what contributed RMK to won the tender. It was coast guard (dost class) vessel project which RMK had gained experience and know-how from Fincantieri.

Should i have started listing shipyard owners of several other shipyards and their connections with top officials? You won't be surprised to hear some shipyards are partially owned, bought by 'relatives' of some top officials.

MİLGEM and LPD are two tenders that changed direction due to political reasons. You are writing on water.

 

[Balamir]

RMK Marine interview

Savunma’da özel tersaneciliğin önemli markası: RMK MARINE

RMK MARINE, Tuzla’daki tersanesinde her türlü ticari gemiden süper/mega yatlara ve askeri gemilere hemen hemen tüm kategorilerde gemi inşası gerçekleştiriyor. Askeri gemi kategorisinde; ikmal tankerleri ve sahil güvenlik komutanlığı için inşa edilen korvet sınıfı 4 adet sahil güvenlik arama ve...

m5dergi.com

 

[KKF 2.0]

Sigh, people keep regurgitating the same old refuted 'arguments' of why things didn't go the way it should've in a perfect world. Guess what, after istemezükcüler (don't wanters), Turkey also suffers from mükemmeliyetçiler (perfectionists)

I'm all for scrutiny, making considered decisions and handling taxpayer's money in a responsible manner. Turkey urgently needs a system that enables its citizens to supervise the spending of the government in order to prevent wasting resources.


But, daaaamn, people here are using the friggin' electricity consumption during the construction phase as an argument against the project. Wt*?!

 

[adenl]

But, daaaamn, people here are using the friggin' electricity consumption during the construction phase as an argument against the project. Wt*?!

Huh, I missed that one. Probably by one of the members I put on my ignore list or something..

 

[Yasar_TR]

If we go back to TCG Anadolu for a while; the idea of having super destroyer/battleship out of our LPD is growing on me. Just check out Japan’s Hyuga destroyer:

Hyuga class Helicopter Destroyer DDH Japan Navy JMSDF

hyuga class helicopter destroyer ddh-181 182 ise jmsdf essm seahawk

www.seaforces.org

We could easily load this ship with Midas/G40 , hisarO+ , Siper , Bora, Gokdeniz CWIS, Sungur SeaRam derivative, Atmaca , Gezgin , Akya torpedoes. It would become a floating fortress.

 

[Anmdt]

RMK Marine interview

Savunma’da özel tersaneciliğin önemli markası: RMK MARINE

RMK MARINE, Tuzla’daki tersanesinde her türlü ticari gemiden süper/mega yatlara ve askeri gemilere hemen hemen tüm kategorilerde gemi inşası gerçekleştiriyor. Askeri gemi kategorisinde; ikmal tankerleri ve sahil güvenlik komutanlığı için inşa edilen korvet sınıfı 4 adet sahil güvenlik arama ve...

m5dergi.com

View attachment 12853

I wont try to convince you further but:
1st, it is senseless to expect RMK to win all tenders. They have also bidded for several other projects.
2nd Adik has won LST project for several reasons, probably their dizayn was a better one.
I am not denying what you say, but your reasons to support this are wrong and i am correcting it.
Those two projects would never be awarded to a single shipyard. None of shipyards in Turkey is able to handle those two critical projects simultanously, moreover, won't be allowed to avoid monopolization.
LPD project has not changed due to political reasons, at least not purely like Milgem serial production project. There has been several other reasons: someone whispering someone about F-35B, ski jump, that someone asks for an aircraft carrier, Navantia's solution becomes the only option among the competitors.
TCG Anadolu looks the same but actually different than Juan Carlos, even construction material is different.

 

[Sinan]

Thread locked for cleaning.

Edit: Thread unlocked, please discuss politics here: https://defencehub.live/threads/turkish-politics.194/

 

[Zafer]

There will be no ACs in near future. Not with our economy in crisis and getting smaller everyday. People don't understand how much expensive to built and operate a carrier group. If it were upto me, i would built Battlestar Galactica and conquer the universe but you can't make stuff without money.

Anyways, i wouldn't take the word of Erdogan. Photo from 10 years ago.

There will be hundreds of our planes in the air by 2023; Bayraktar, Anka, Akıncı, Aksungur (etc), Hürkuş, Hürjet, MIUS, MMU are all national planes. The passenger plane in the picture was an irresponsible trump card used by stupid (can't remember the name), ah, Davudoğlu (Davidson). I hated this guy when he attempted to make the rally participants make an oath, despicable.

 

[Zafer]

Our MMU is a large plane, I could only fit 23 of them comfortably on the main deck. This is when there is no wing folding and tightly packing planes. And planes can park and move out without clearing obstacles. Also UAV are bound to play a big role and they can come in a wide variety and take up less space than the main fighters.

 

[Sinan]

Our MMU is a large plane, I could only fit 23 of them comfortably on the main deck. This is when there is no wing folding and tightly packing planes. And planes can park and move out without clearing obstacles. Also UAV are bound to play a big role and they can come in a wide variety and take up less space than the main fighters.

Ordinary planes can't land or take off from ACs. You have to design the plane from scratch to be able to endure Catobar and Arresting Systems.

 

[Ardabas34]

Ordinary planes can't land or take off from ACs. You have to design the plane from scratch to be able to endure Catabor and Arresting Systems.

What about VTOL?

 

[Sinan]

What about VTOL?

VTOL aircraft have limitations, if you have a AC (not LHD) then you don't go for VTOL aircraft but to conventional aircraft that can take of from ACs.

That's why F35 has B (STOVL version) and C (AC version) models.

 

[Yasar_TR]

VTOL aircraft have limitations, if you have a AC (not LHD) then you don't go for VTOL aircraft but to conventional aircraft that can take of from ACs.

That's why F35 has B (STOVL version) and C (AC version) models.

All correct! Until you have a ship like HMS-QE2!
280m long
41m wide
11m draft
65000 tons
ski lift take-off assistance
It is actually long enough to allow conventional takeoff and landing.
it is wide enough to have two runways.

But no Catapults and no Arresting wires. Hence only useful for STOVL aircrafts.

 

[Zafer]

Ordinary planes can't land or take off from ACs. You have to design the plane from scratch to be able to endure Catobar and Arresting Systems.

Let's simply assume TAI is aware of that and they design the MMU from scratch.

 

[Nilgiri]

Ordinary planes can't land or take off from ACs. You have to design the plane from scratch to be able to endure Catobar and Arresting Systems.

It can be done w.r.t undercarriage strengthening from the get go.

Legacy hornet they did the one variant only (carrier based) given USN economy of scale (and no planned USAF use), thats why RCAF and RAAF legacy hornets were overdesigned for AF role w.r.t their landing gears...as optimised AF variant simply wasnt there....but the extra redundancy offered was also a silver lining.

This carried on with superhornet, simply you design for the most extreme role if you want one base variant.

If in production run and you want two optimised base variants (say AF and Navy version w.r.t undercarriage), it can be done too. Kind of like F-35 has done w.r.t F-35 C.

 

[Sinan]

Let's simply assume TAI is aware of that and they design the MMU from scratch.

I don't think so, they might additionally design a carrier version. But we have no indications that MMU will be able to take of from ACs as of now.

It can be done w.r.t undercarriage strengthening from the get go.

Legacy hornet they did the one variant only (carrier based) given USN economy of scale (and no planned USAF use), thats why RCAF and RAAF legacy hornets were overdesigned for AF role w.r.t their landing gears...as optimised AF variant simply wasnt there....but the extra redundancy offered was also a silver lining.

This carried on with superhornet, simply you design for the most extreme role if you want one base variant.

If in production run and you want two optimised base variants (say AF and Navy version w.r.t undercarriage), it can be done too. Kind of like F-35 has done w.r.t F-35 C.

Yeah, but you have to design it from scratch, for example you can't just modify an existing F-16, F-15 or F-22 to take off from ACs

 

[Zafer]

I don't think so, they might additionally design a carrier version. But we have no indications that MMU will be able to take of from ACs as of now.

Yeah, but you have to design it from scratch, for example you can't just modify an existing F-16, F-15 or F-22 to take off from ACs

MMU is not just one aeroplane but a family of planes with variations.

 

[Sinan]

MMU is not just one aeroplane but a family of planes with variations.

I must have missed that. Can you post the source?