Turkish American relationship

what

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
2,172
Reactions
10 6,412
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Mr. President Erdoğan,
• I extend my best wishes to you and to the people of the Republic of Turkey.
• I share the pain of Turkish citizens, their families and all the people affected by the coronavirus epidemic.

- US President Biden


I get Whatsapp messages with more content.
 

Glass🚬

Contributor
Messages
1,388
Reactions
2 3,159
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

Why U.S.-Turkey Tensions Were Never About the S-400 Missile System​

There are many longstanding causes of the widening rift between Ankara and Washington and the view from Turkey is one of frustration and anger.

by Ali Demirdas
The current crisis between the United States and Turkey is the result of America’s ever-growing frustration with Turkey which began particularly in the early 2000s, when Turkey began to increasingly pursue an independent foreign policy, which has not necessarily been in line with Washington’s perceived interests. Simply put, the more Ankara resisted America’s demands, the more Washington dialed up pressure. The S-400 crisis is only the latest manifestation of this vicious cycle and is also a clear indication that Washington is on the verge of completely losing its grip on Turkey as seen by the Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mevlut Cavusoglu’s firm affirmation last week that, “It (the S-400 purchase) is a done deal.”


The signs of Turkey’s growing defiance to the United States began to mount as the Justice and Development Party (AK Parti) single party government took office around the same time America was preparing for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Having already suffered the political, economic, and social toll of the U.S.-led Gulf War of 1991, Turkey, under Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s single party government in March of 2003, rejected Washington’s request to use Turkish soil to open a northern front into Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein. This infuriated the Bush Administration which then pushed for a more military-focused foreign policy. Unfortunately, that policy would plant the seeds of discord that have greatly shaped the bilateral relations to this day. In his book, Decision Points, Bush said, “I was frustrated and disappointed. On one of the most important requests we had ever made, Turkey, our NATO ally had let America down.” Then-secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld blamed the success of the Sunni insurgency and the subsequent American losses squarely on Turkey’s refusal to cooperate.

In July 2003, some 150 members of the U.S. 173rd Airborne Brigade arrested 18 Turkish commandos in the city of Sulaymaniyah for allegedly plotting the assassination of the newly-elected Iraqi-Kurdish governor of Kirkuk. What made it even more maddening for Turks is the commandos were arrested and hoods put over their heads, a sign of disrespect. That incident, now called “the Hood Event,” perhaps marked the beginning of the ‘Pentagonization’, whereby the Pentagon, particularly the Central Command (CENTCOM), (rather than the more level-headed State Department) began to define policies towards Turkey, throwing the bilateral relations into an uncontrollable downward spiral.

The eruption of the Syrian Civil war in 2011 further deepened the ever-growing division between the two “allies,” also highlighting Washington’s ineptitude dealing with the crisis. The Obama Administration was so confused with respect to Syria that various U.S. agencies began to support different opposition groups, each having different agendas. Whereas, the Central Intelligence Agency began to train and equip the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a Turkey-aligned Sunni opposition group, the Pentagon (CENTOM) did not hesitate to take steps that would enrage Turkey by propping up the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG), which Turkey has repeatedly stated is a branch of the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), a group considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Turkey. Ankara’s repeated appeals to Washington to drop its support for YPG yielded nothing. To make things even worse for Turkey, the United States, at the height of the civil war, decided to pull its Patriot air and missile defense systems from Turkey’s Syrian border, leaving Turkey vulnerable. In addition, Washington turned a deaf ear to Turkey’s subsequent pleas to purchase the Patriot. When Ankara finally received an answer from Washington, it was seventeen months too late and even then, America would not allow the transfer of th military technology transfer in order for Turkey to control the missiles they wanted to buy.

Having felt abandoned by Washington, Turkey felt that it had no choice but to turn to Russia for help, which Putin gladly provided, seizing the opportunity to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). When Russia intervened in the Syrian Civil War and opened up Syrian air space, Turkey was able to create a safe zone in much of the area west of the Euphrates, fulfilling a demand by Ankara that Washington had repeatedly stalled on. Furthermore, Putin offered something that cemented Turkey’s near-complete departure from the U.S. orbit; the S-400 air defense system. Despite Washington’s repeated pleas against the deal, the first batch of S-400s landed in Turkey in July 2019. Ankara now learned that it could implement policies that may run counter to Washington’s liking, and still get away with them. With this in mind, Turkey launched Operation Peace Spring east of the Euphrates in October 2019, effectively dislodging the American proxy, YPG, from its border and pushing them deeper into the Syrian Desert. CENTCOM was so furious at this that the American soldiers held the strategic city of Manbij to prevent the Turks from taking it and later handed it to the Russians.

Washington’s current frustration with Turkey has deep roots that are decades old, but more importantly, it is a clear indication of rapidly declining American power. Gone are the days such as in 1991, when the United States could mount a unanimous global coalition and could assemble an army of more than 500,000 American soldiers. Today, America is reduced to having to rely on the YPG militia, which, in fact, it has had to share with Russia and Iran. Washington’s threats of sanctions on Germany over the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline has not seemed to deter Berlin from completing the project with Russia. Furthermore, having seen that Turkey emerged relatively unharmed from the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) sanctions, India now feels emboldened to complete the acquisition of their own S-400s despite Washington’s warnings. In early 2021, the first Indian military team received training on S-400s. On top of everything, at a time when America’s deterrence in the Pacific is seriously questioned, the Chinese delegates were able to humiliate their U.S. counterparts on American soil, at the summit in Anchorage, without worrying about the consequences of their actions.

It is a mere misjudgment to attribute the current U.S.-Turkish acrimony to the S-400s. Traditionally, America’s perceived interests and Turkey’s security concerns in the Middle East have collided. Washington’s inability to manage Turkey’s actions—and the resulting frustration in—has increased Washington’s desire to adopt a punitive approach, which has met with Ankara’s obstinance. Turkey’s ascendence in the Eastern Mediterranean, in Libya, in Syria, in Iraq and the Caucasus, corresponds with the steady decline of America and its world order. That is why it is a mistake for the Biden Administration to attempt the much anticipated “taming” of Turkey since it will more than likely not be able to deliver the results Washington wants. The only bullet left for Biden to hurt Turkey appears to be the recognition, possibly on April 24, of the 1915 events with the Armenians as a genocide. Such a move is only going to serve to increase the anti-American sentiment in Turkey and nothing else will be gained from it.

As China is poised to replace America as global hegemon, threatening its very economic and political well-being, it is perhaps time for the policymakers in Washington to stop wasting precious energy by alienating such allies as Turkey, by being obsessed with a tour de force, and come to terms with the limits of American power.

Ali Demirdas, Ph.D. in political science from the University of South Carolina, Fulbright scholar, professor of international affairs at the College of Charleston(2011—2018). You can follow him on Twitter @DrDemirdasEn


 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,857
Reactions
6 18,707
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey

Why U.S.-Turkey Tensions Were Never About the S-400 Missile System​

There are many longstanding causes of the widening rift between Ankara and Washington and the view from Turkey is one of frustration and anger.

by Ali Demirdas
The current crisis between the United States and Turkey is the result of America’s ever-growing frustration with Turkey which began particularly in the early 2000s, when Turkey began to increasingly pursue an independent foreign policy, which has not necessarily been in line with Washington’s perceived interests. Simply put, the more Ankara resisted America’s demands, the more Washington dialed up pressure. The S-400 crisis is only the latest manifestation of this vicious cycle and is also a clear indication that Washington is on the verge of completely losing its grip on Turkey as seen by the Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mevlut Cavusoglu’s firm affirmation last week that, “It (the S-400 purchase) is a done deal.”


The signs of Turkey’s growing defiance to the United States began to mount as the Justice and Development Party (AK Parti) single party government took office around the same time America was preparing for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Having already suffered the political, economic, and social toll of the U.S.-led Gulf War of 1991, Turkey, under Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s single party government in March of 2003, rejected Washington’s request to use Turkish soil to open a northern front into Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein. This infuriated the Bush Administration which then pushed for a more military-focused foreign policy. Unfortunately, that policy would plant the seeds of discord that have greatly shaped the bilateral relations to this day. In his book, Decision Points, Bush said, “I was frustrated and disappointed. On one of the most important requests we had ever made, Turkey, our NATO ally had let America down.” Then-secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld blamed the success of the Sunni insurgency and the subsequent American losses squarely on Turkey’s refusal to cooperate.

In July 2003, some 150 members of the U.S. 173rd Airborne Brigade arrested 18 Turkish commandos in the city of Sulaymaniyah for allegedly plotting the assassination of the newly-elected Iraqi-Kurdish governor of Kirkuk. What made it even more maddening for Turks is the commandos were arrested and hoods put over their heads, a sign of disrespect. That incident, now called “the Hood Event,” perhaps marked the beginning of the ‘Pentagonization’, whereby the Pentagon, particularly the Central Command (CENTCOM), (rather than the more level-headed State Department) began to define policies towards Turkey, throwing the bilateral relations into an uncontrollable downward spiral.

The eruption of the Syrian Civil war in 2011 further deepened the ever-growing division between the two “allies,” also highlighting Washington’s ineptitude dealing with the crisis. The Obama Administration was so confused with respect to Syria that various U.S. agencies began to support different opposition groups, each having different agendas. Whereas, the Central Intelligence Agency began to train and equip the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a Turkey-aligned Sunni opposition group, the Pentagon (CENTOM) did not hesitate to take steps that would enrage Turkey by propping up the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG), which Turkey has repeatedly stated is a branch of the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), a group considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Turkey. Ankara’s repeated appeals to Washington to drop its support for YPG yielded nothing. To make things even worse for Turkey, the United States, at the height of the civil war, decided to pull its Patriot air and missile defense systems from Turkey’s Syrian border, leaving Turkey vulnerable. In addition, Washington turned a deaf ear to Turkey’s subsequent pleas to purchase the Patriot. When Ankara finally received an answer from Washington, it was seventeen months too late and even then, America would not allow the transfer of th military technology transfer in order for Turkey to control the missiles they wanted to buy.

Having felt abandoned by Washington, Turkey felt that it had no choice but to turn to Russia for help, which Putin gladly provided, seizing the opportunity to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). When Russia intervened in the Syrian Civil War and opened up Syrian air space, Turkey was able to create a safe zone in much of the area west of the Euphrates, fulfilling a demand by Ankara that Washington had repeatedly stalled on. Furthermore, Putin offered something that cemented Turkey’s near-complete departure from the U.S. orbit; the S-400 air defense system. Despite Washington’s repeated pleas against the deal, the first batch of S-400s landed in Turkey in July 2019. Ankara now learned that it could implement policies that may run counter to Washington’s liking, and still get away with them. With this in mind, Turkey launched Operation Peace Spring east of the Euphrates in October 2019, effectively dislodging the American proxy, YPG, from its border and pushing them deeper into the Syrian Desert. CENTCOM was so furious at this that the American soldiers held the strategic city of Manbij to prevent the Turks from taking it and later handed it to the Russians.

Washington’s current frustration with Turkey has deep roots that are decades old, but more importantly, it is a clear indication of rapidly declining American power. Gone are the days such as in 1991, when the United States could mount a unanimous global coalition and could assemble an army of more than 500,000 American soldiers. Today, America is reduced to having to rely on the YPG militia, which, in fact, it has had to share with Russia and Iran. Washington’s threats of sanctions on Germany over the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline has not seemed to deter Berlin from completing the project with Russia. Furthermore, having seen that Turkey emerged relatively unharmed from the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) sanctions, India now feels emboldened to complete the acquisition of their own S-400s despite Washington’s warnings. In early 2021, the first Indian military team received training on S-400s. On top of everything, at a time when America’s deterrence in the Pacific is seriously questioned, the Chinese delegates were able to humiliate their U.S. counterparts on American soil, at the summit in Anchorage, without worrying about the consequences of their actions.

It is a mere misjudgment to attribute the current U.S.-Turkish acrimony to the S-400s. Traditionally, America’s perceived interests and Turkey’s security concerns in the Middle East have collided. Washington’s inability to manage Turkey’s actions—and the resulting frustration in—has increased Washington’s desire to adopt a punitive approach, which has met with Ankara’s obstinance. Turkey’s ascendence in the Eastern Mediterranean, in Libya, in Syria, in Iraq and the Caucasus, corresponds with the steady decline of America and its world order. That is why it is a mistake for the Biden Administration to attempt the much anticipated “taming” of Turkey since it will more than likely not be able to deliver the results Washington wants. The only bullet left for Biden to hurt Turkey appears to be the recognition, possibly on April 24, of the 1915 events with the Armenians as a genocide. Such a move is only going to serve to increase the anti-American sentiment in Turkey and nothing else will be gained from it.

As China is poised to replace America as global hegemon, threatening its very economic and political well-being, it is perhaps time for the policymakers in Washington to stop wasting precious energy by alienating such allies as Turkey, by being obsessed with a tour de force, and come to terms with the limits of American power.

Ali Demirdas, Ph.D. in political science from the University of South Carolina, Fulbright scholar, professor of international affairs at the College of Charleston(2011—2018). You can follow him on Twitter @DrDemirdasEn



F35 fanboys in Turkey should read this article.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,249
Reactions
141 16,282
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey

Why U.S.-Turkey Tensions Were Never About the S-400 Missile System​

There are many longstanding causes of the widening rift between Ankara and Washington and the view from Turkey is one of frustration and anger.

by Ali Demirdas
The current crisis between the United States and Turkey is the result of America’s ever-growing frustration with Turkey which began particularly in the early 2000s, when Turkey began to increasingly pursue an independent foreign policy, which has not necessarily been in line with Washington’s perceived interests. Simply put, the more Ankara resisted America’s demands, the more Washington dialed up pressure. The S-400 crisis is only the latest manifestation of this vicious cycle and is also a clear indication that Washington is on the verge of completely losing its grip on Turkey as seen by the Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mevlut Cavusoglu’s firm affirmation last week that, “It (the S-400 purchase) is a done deal.”


The signs of Turkey’s growing defiance to the United States began to mount as the Justice and Development Party (AK Parti) single party government took office around the same time America was preparing for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Having already suffered the political, economic, and social toll of the U.S.-led Gulf War of 1991, Turkey, under Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s single party government in March of 2003, rejected Washington’s request to use Turkish soil to open a northern front into Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein. This infuriated the Bush Administration which then pushed for a more military-focused foreign policy. Unfortunately, that policy would plant the seeds of discord that have greatly shaped the bilateral relations to this day. In his book, Decision Points, Bush said, “I was frustrated and disappointed. On one of the most important requests we had ever made, Turkey, our NATO ally had let America down.” Then-secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld blamed the success of the Sunni insurgency and the subsequent American losses squarely on Turkey’s refusal to cooperate.

In July 2003, some 150 members of the U.S. 173rd Airborne Brigade arrested 18 Turkish commandos in the city of Sulaymaniyah for allegedly plotting the assassination of the newly-elected Iraqi-Kurdish governor of Kirkuk. What made it even more maddening for Turks is the commandos were arrested and hoods put over their heads, a sign of disrespect. That incident, now called “the Hood Event,” perhaps marked the beginning of the ‘Pentagonization’, whereby the Pentagon, particularly the Central Command (CENTCOM), (rather than the more level-headed State Department) began to define policies towards Turkey, throwing the bilateral relations into an uncontrollable downward spiral.

The eruption of the Syrian Civil war in 2011 further deepened the ever-growing division between the two “allies,” also highlighting Washington’s ineptitude dealing with the crisis. The Obama Administration was so confused with respect to Syria that various U.S. agencies began to support different opposition groups, each having different agendas. Whereas, the Central Intelligence Agency began to train and equip the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a Turkey-aligned Sunni opposition group, the Pentagon (CENTOM) did not hesitate to take steps that would enrage Turkey by propping up the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG), which Turkey has repeatedly stated is a branch of the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), a group considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Turkey. Ankara’s repeated appeals to Washington to drop its support for YPG yielded nothing. To make things even worse for Turkey, the United States, at the height of the civil war, decided to pull its Patriot air and missile defense systems from Turkey’s Syrian border, leaving Turkey vulnerable. In addition, Washington turned a deaf ear to Turkey’s subsequent pleas to purchase the Patriot. When Ankara finally received an answer from Washington, it was seventeen months too late and even then, America would not allow the transfer of th military technology transfer in order for Turkey to control the missiles they wanted to buy.

Having felt abandoned by Washington, Turkey felt that it had no choice but to turn to Russia for help, which Putin gladly provided, seizing the opportunity to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). When Russia intervened in the Syrian Civil War and opened up Syrian air space, Turkey was able to create a safe zone in much of the area west of the Euphrates, fulfilling a demand by Ankara that Washington had repeatedly stalled on. Furthermore, Putin offered something that cemented Turkey’s near-complete departure from the U.S. orbit; the S-400 air defense system. Despite Washington’s repeated pleas against the deal, the first batch of S-400s landed in Turkey in July 2019. Ankara now learned that it could implement policies that may run counter to Washington’s liking, and still get away with them. With this in mind, Turkey launched Operation Peace Spring east of the Euphrates in October 2019, effectively dislodging the American proxy, YPG, from its border and pushing them deeper into the Syrian Desert. CENTCOM was so furious at this that the American soldiers held the strategic city of Manbij to prevent the Turks from taking it and later handed it to the Russians.

Washington’s current frustration with Turkey has deep roots that are decades old, but more importantly, it is a clear indication of rapidly declining American power. Gone are the days such as in 1991, when the United States could mount a unanimous global coalition and could assemble an army of more than 500,000 American soldiers. Today, America is reduced to having to rely on the YPG militia, which, in fact, it has had to share with Russia and Iran. Washington’s threats of sanctions on Germany over the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline has not seemed to deter Berlin from completing the project with Russia. Furthermore, having seen that Turkey emerged relatively unharmed from the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) sanctions, India now feels emboldened to complete the acquisition of their own S-400s despite Washington’s warnings. In early 2021, the first Indian military team received training on S-400s. On top of everything, at a time when America’s deterrence in the Pacific is seriously questioned, the Chinese delegates were able to humiliate their U.S. counterparts on American soil, at the summit in Anchorage, without worrying about the consequences of their actions.

It is a mere misjudgment to attribute the current U.S.-Turkish acrimony to the S-400s. Traditionally, America’s perceived interests and Turkey’s security concerns in the Middle East have collided. Washington’s inability to manage Turkey’s actions—and the resulting frustration in—has increased Washington’s desire to adopt a punitive approach, which has met with Ankara’s obstinance. Turkey’s ascendence in the Eastern Mediterranean, in Libya, in Syria, in Iraq and the Caucasus, corresponds with the steady decline of America and its world order. That is why it is a mistake for the Biden Administration to attempt the much anticipated “taming” of Turkey since it will more than likely not be able to deliver the results Washington wants. The only bullet left for Biden to hurt Turkey appears to be the recognition, possibly on April 24, of the 1915 events with the Armenians as a genocide. Such a move is only going to serve to increase the anti-American sentiment in Turkey and nothing else will be gained from it.

As China is poised to replace America as global hegemon, threatening its very economic and political well-being, it is perhaps time for the policymakers in Washington to stop wasting precious energy by alienating such allies as Turkey, by being obsessed with a tour de force, and come to terms with the limits of American power.

Ali Demirdas, Ph.D. in political science from the University of South Carolina, Fulbright scholar, professor of international affairs at the College of Charleston(2011—2018). You can follow him on Twitter @DrDemirdasEn


This article‘s front part is not quite right. It does not reflect true friction reasons.
Placing sacks over Turkish soldiers in Suleimaniyah in Iraq was in response to Turkey not allowing US army free reign to invade Iraq in second gulf war through Turkish soil. Erdogan was not yet prime minister. But AKP was in power. US ships filled with troops and equipment were waiting for disembarkation. It never occurred. They had to go to Saudi Arabia instead. Until 2013, Gulen movement and AKP were in collusion. It is a well known statement of Erdogan as he said “ what is it that we did not give you when you asked for it? “. Gulen movement were managed by US and was instrumental in bringing Erdogan to power. But in 2013 they fell out over management of lucrative religious foundations. That is when US and Turkey started not to see eye to eye. Prior to 2013 when PKK terrorists were allowed to have freedom within Turkey and they were allowed to dig tunnels in eastern cities, government stood and watched. After 2013 a crackdown of the PKK started. This did not go well with Gulenists and the US. After the attempted coup in 2016, most likely orchestrated by US and foiled a week before by Russia informing Erdogan’s government, Erdogan realised that his life was actually on the block. So a 180 degree turn on foreign policy and anti US policy followed. Turkey was waking up from a long sleep.
It is true that the f35 crisis has nothing to do with S400.
 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
9,192
Reactions
67 31,255
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
EzrXgZfXsAEhhkn
 
A

Akhtar

Guest
This article‘s front part is not quite right. It does not reflect true friction reasons.
Placing sacks over Turkish soldiers in Suleimaniyah in Iraq was in response to Turkey not allowing US army free reign to invade Iraq in second gulf war through Turkish soil. Erdogan was not yet prime minister. But AKP was in power. US ships filled with troops and equipment were waiting for disembarkation. It never occurred. They had to go to Saudi Arabia instead. Until 2013, Gulen movement and AKP were in collusion. It is a well known statement of Erdogan as he said “ what is it that we did not give you when you asked for it? “. Gulen movement were managed by US and was instrumental in bringing Erdogan to power. But in 2013 they fell out over management of lucrative religious foundations. That is when US and Turkey started not to see eye to eye. Prior to 2013 when PKK terrorists were allowed to have freedom within Turkey and they were allowed to dig tunnels in eastern cities, government stood and watched. After 2013 a crackdown of the PKK started. This did not go well with Gulenists and the US. After the attempted coup in 2016, most likely orchestrated by US and foiled a week before by Russia informing Erdogan’s government, Erdogan realised that his life was actually on the block. So a 180 degree turn on foreign policy and anti US policy followed. Turkey was waking up from a long sleep.
It is true that the f35 crisis has nothing to do with S400.

Ali Demirdas is an AKP man to the bone. So naturally he would write this way.
 
A

Akhtar

Guest

This is incredibly short for the first call with Erdogan, means great problems. America did not mention the Armenian genocide recognition, it is likely this is because they do not expect a big negative reaction from Turkey and that they will still have meetings in the future.
 
T

Turko

Guest
Biden called on the eve of 24th April.
Very suspicious. Tomorrow The Americans will say something we don't accept ..
Because Biden's behavior has been like this ; first he called Putin then stated sanctions . His behavior to Saudians was as same as to Putin.
 

Glass🚬

Contributor
Messages
1,388
Reactions
2 3,159
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
He was weak on Putin, throw the human rights away with the resumption of the UAE arms deal. He needs to show off and an easy way to do so is getting on our nerves. Naturally, our tolerance for such behaviour has also its limits.

I would throw them out and invite the chinese but we will see how erdo plans to counter.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
981
Reactions
14 4,180
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

Who cares. Stay off the internet for a day and the next day everything will go back to how it was.

Biden was always gonna do it, people who know who Biden really is aren't suprised by this.

Dude has been Anti-Turkey his whole political career, who do you think was the driving factor in Obama's shitty attitude against Turkey?

He was one of the senators calling for sanctions against Turkey when we intervened in Cyprus and averted a genocide.

Alone that fact should tell you enough about this guy.

VP is former Senator from California and has been getting Armenian and Greek money for her whole career.

Add to it the fact that Biden has been humiliated by Putin over the last few weeks and the fact that he just like Obama backed down in the face of Russian aggression and let down not only Ukraine but the whole of eastern europe you get a desperate Biden in need of PR points.

China front is looking too good either, looks weaker than Trump even though he criticised Trump for being too weak on China.

Is pulling out of Afghanistan, the same thing he criticised Trump for, leaving the country in chaos and handing it over to the Talibans.

Add to that Armenia needs some pity after having a whole generation wiped out by Azerbaijan.

This whole thing was pointing to it.

Honestly the future isn't looking too good for the US right now. Both Russia and China have been out playing it vastly over the last years, especially Russia with its economy status doing it is pretty impressive. And with Biden it isn't getting any better, maybe they should get therapy for their Turkey obsession. I think that would help them realise what their priorities should be.

At least we aren't the only ones Biden is keen on alienating in the ME, Israel is in the same bed with Iran and its proxies having sanctions be eased against them for nothing in return essentially.

I don't even expect any real reaction from our Government, most likely just some short text saying how this is gonna hurt relations blah blah blah, the standart stuff we have been getting for the last years.
 

Glass🚬

Contributor
Messages
1,388
Reactions
2 3,159
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

Pretty spot on article.

Bruno Macaes is a pretty good follow.

What Dreams May Come

Oscar Wilde pointed out that the trouble with socialism is that it takes up too many evenings. Usually it took a lot more, and a real socialist would be someone who was willing to pay that price in order to bring about a better and more just society. But perhaps there is a shortcut after all, and we can build a society that feels just like a socialist paradise with none of its costs.

Joe Biden, who like the centaurs of old Greece is something of a mythological creature—a hybrid between socialist and neoliberal as Osnos put it—might be just the president to do it. His presidency may come to represent a particular moment in the history of American power, the stage when its foundations are weaker than ever but the surface looks polished and new. It is often like that with our most treasured dreams. They look better than life.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,857
Reactions
6 18,707
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Who cares. Stay off the internet for a day and the next day everything will go back to how it was.

Biden was always gonna do it, people who know who Biden really is aren't suprised by this.

Dude has been Anti-Turkey his whole political career, who do you think was the driving factor in Obama's shitty attitude against Turkey?

He was one of the senators calling for sanctions against Turkey when we intervened in Cyprus and averted a genocide.

Alone that fact should tell you enough about this guy.

VP is former Senator from California and has been getting Armenian and Greek money for her whole career.

Add to it the fact that Biden has been humiliated by Putin over the last few weeks and the fact that he just like Obama backed down in the face of Russian aggression and let down not only Ukraine but the whole of eastern europe you get a desperate Biden in need of PR points.

China front is looking too good either, looks weaker than Trump even though he criticised Trump for being too weak on China.

Is pulling out of Afghanistan, the same thing he criticised Trump for, leaving the country in chaos and handing it over to the Talibans.

Add to that Armenia needs some pity after having a whole generation wiped out by Azerbaijan.

This whole thing was pointing to it.

Honestly the future isn't looking too good for the US right now. Both Russia and China have been out playing it vastly over the last years, especially Russia with its economy status doing it is pretty impressive. And with Biden it isn't getting any better, maybe they should get therapy for their Turkey obsession. I think that would help them realise what their priorities should be.

At least we aren't the only ones Biden is keen on alienating in the ME, Israel is in the same bed with Iran and its proxies having sanctions be eased against them for nothing in return essentially.

I don't even expect any real reaction from our Government, most likely just some short text saying how this is gonna hurt relations blah blah blah, the standart stuff we have been getting for the last years.

It all boils down to this Christian commit atrocities it gets swept away or justified.

When it comes to.Muslims its either genocide or a massacre.

Honestly not to mention how they dub the Armenian "genocide" as the first genocide of the 20 th century casually overlooks what the Germans did in South West Africa and Tanzania.

Seriously Congo genocide and the Concentration camps set up the British in the Boer can all count as the first genocide. A lot of them are easily overlooked because Western historians will easily sweep it under the rug.

Shows once again how black people got shafted too. Because the genocide in Namibia was the first genocide of the 20th century because they are African, Black and non Christian who cares because they got swept aside by the civilised Christian Germans.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,632
Reactions
37 19,741
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom