Turkish Naval Programs

Agha Sher

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Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?

Maybe Turkey is trying to increase the number of defence companies by helping some cheaper companies. This could lead to increased defence exports and give Aselsan some much needed spare capacity.
 

Ecderha

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It smells like another corruption attempt. Aselsan's product is matured, developed over years and it is "Aselsan". No way a newcomer could be better with non-proven product.
It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why? beacuse they did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)
 

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It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)

Why would Aselsan need to assign engineers on already completed product :) I am thinking from all sides and still finding it suspicious..
 

Ecderha

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Why would Aselsan need to assign engineers on already completed product :) I am thinking from all sides and still finding it suspicious..
You need to provide people to produce something-> they need you engineers why? -> if there is new platform or something which araise -> engineers need to go there and it always start -> Analysis-> Fix-> Test-> Accept repeat. TIME consuming! There is HIGH demand at moment there is also Prio projects where HIGH tech and teams like ASELSAN company are assigned to DO. How this gonna START if you teams are already BUSY!?
 

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Maybe the new unknown company is a foreign company that wants to sell their products in Turkey and thus started a new company in Turkey. Which means the product is already known and tested. It’s just being marketed under a new name and company.

perfect way to hoodwink Turkish public to think it’s a domestic product.
 

Anmdt

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It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why? beacuse they did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)
Check out who produces the stabilized turrets in other countries, do they face any shortages despite of being a large company?

Plus Aselsan had to form that division unwillingly in 2000s, it has been founded matured and became a well known brand worldwide where navies started to pick Aselsan's weapon systems by preference. Why should Aselsan think that division is a burden?
You need to provide people to produce something-> they need you engineers why? -> if there is new platform or something which araise -> engineers need to go there and it always start -> Analysis-> Fix-> Test-> Accept repeat. TIME consuming! There is HIGH demand at moment there is also Prio projects where HIGH tech and teams like ASELSAN company are assigned to DO. How this gonna START if you teams are already BUSY!?
Again, all aselsan needs to do is produce, assemble and deliver a product that they have been making since 2010 there won't be any R&D or testing procedures for this well known product. The production line exists, personnel exists, all they need is orders to make some deliveries.

It doesnt involve steps like you have mentioned, it is quite straightforward like a serial production. It is literally, 'make, test for quality and qualification, deliver'. It is a well known product it even rarely needs a fix after installed aboard.

They have delivered 30-40 weapon systems to Turkmenistan in a few years back in 2010s. Which shows the production line has a decent capacity and low failure rate.

Maybe the new unknown company is a foreign company that wants to sell their products in Turkey and thus started a new company in Turkey. Which means the product is already known and tested. It’s just being marketed under a new name and company.

perfect way to hoodwink Turkish public to think it’s a domestic product.
This is what i am afraid of, their time is very limited to make the first pair of the guns. If not the platform itself they might be getting control boards and software from abroad to make it ready for trials in 15-18 months.

In such deals the Navy should require the source code of the control systems to prove the authenticity, they used to do it earlier for something else.
 

Saithan

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I am thinking the discount given is so big the politicians go for that product. It’s history repeating itself. The French pick their own suppliers given any chance. But corrupt politicians are narrowminded as usual.
 

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Maybe Turkey is trying to increase the number of defence companies by helping some cheaper companies. This could lead to increased defence exports and give Aselsan some much needed spare capacity.

This makes sense untill we get to the point that Aselsan opened up a new facility in Konya just to produce stabilized weapon stations.
Not only that, Aselsan developed improved E/O systems and integrated Tubitaks real time operating system. Femsan makes the servo motors and another Turkish company produces the shell in which everything sits inside.

So, there are no clear advantages. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Canik has developed a 12.7mm MG with higher fire rate with improved corrosion resistance and perhaps is contractually married to Unidef. Thus, Aselsan has no access to it. But Navy loves it's fire rate...
 

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This makes sense untill we get to the point that Aselsan opened up a new facility in Konya just to produce stabilized weapon stations.
Not only that, Aselsan developed improved E/O systems and integrated Tubitaks real time operating system. Femsan makes the servo motors and another Turkish company produces the shell in which everything sits inside.

So, there are no clear advantages. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Canik has developed a 12.7mm MG with higher fire rate with improved corrosion resistance and perhaps is contractually married to Unidef. Thus, Aselsan has no access to it. But Navy loves it's fire rate...
I think the MG can be ordered separately and installed with ease, ASFAT is managing contracts here. Canik wouldn't say 'no i am not selling these unless it is on my JV's product'.

Also, before the AKDG design revealed in IDEF i remember they were going to use 25mm. And magically it has appeared with 12.7.

In the end, a startup has magically acquired an order, including the likely future orders, of 32 units. 20 for AKDG, 12 for FAC.
 
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İsmail DEMİR: “We are planning to put LHD ANATOLIA into service first as it was in its Original Design.”

Noting that they are planning to deliver LHD Anadolu in the first quarter of 2022, DEMİR said, "We are working to make it early in 2022. We thought that it would be possible to make some of the detailed equipment of the ship during the service. We're pushing to see if it might be a little sooner for him. But of course, the project regarding the deployment of UAVs and SİHAs on the ship continues. We have a plan to put our ship into service as it was in its original design, to mature the work of BAYRAKTAR TB3 and integrate them into the ship when it is ready,” he said.
 

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İsmail DEMİR: “We are planning to put LHD ANATOLIA into service first as it was in its Original Design.”

Noting that they are planning to deliver LHD Anadolu in the first quarter of 2022, DEMİR said, "We are working to make it early in 2022. We thought that it would be possible to make some of the detailed equipment of the ship during the service. We're pushing to see if it might be a little sooner for him. But of course, the project regarding the deployment of UAVs and SİHAs on the ship continues. We have a plan to put our ship into service as it was in its original design, to mature the work of BAYRAKTAR TB3 and integrate them into the ship when it is ready,” he said.
I have kept telling this for years while some people were launching MIUS from Anadolu in 2023.

Navy's primary goal is to master LHD capabilities of Anadolu, it may even be deployed at a theatre. The deal made for Cobras and possibly for Cougars of Land Forces are also related to this.

The other capabilities will be inducted after 2024 or 2025 depending on the major maintenance schedule of the ship.
 

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According to Tolga Ozbek, Ismail Demir has said the national VLS will be integrated in 2022 and it will be the Siper missile that will be used.

I would have expected Hisar-RF first but perhaps both will be used in the testing phase.
 

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I have kept telling this for years while some people were launching MIUS from Anadolu in 2023.

Navy's primary goal is to master LHD capabilities of Anadolu, it may even be deployed at a theatre. The deal made for Cobras and possibly for Cougars of Land Forces are also related to this.

The other capabilities will be inducted after 2024 or 2025 depending on the major maintenance schedule of the ship.
I seem to remember that the license holder Navantia wants to deliver the ship and see it operate in it’s contractual state. Whatever is going to be added will have to be done after Navy’s full acceptance And if and when the Navy allows it.
 

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I seem to remember that the license holder Navantia wants to deliver the ship and see it operate in it’s contractual state. Whatever is going to be added will have to be done after Navy’s full acceptance And if and when the Navy allows it.
If that was the case the ship would remain in the dry dock after acceptance and continue to receive the modifications, also if i remember clearly the contractor is Sedef shipyard. So the negotiation would have been done with them.

The first major overhaul is done in 2.5-3 years also fits better to development and test schedule of the TB-3 and launch-recovery systems on land. The design will also require the Turkish Lloyd approval after being completed, before installation and modification of the deck-hull.
 

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From the messages of Ismail Demir: Vertical Launch System: National missiles will be launched from this system. While the works are being carried out, care is taken in the planning so that the ships in the navy (active duty) will not be disrupted.



@Anmdt Apparently, Ismail Demir is talking about equipping existing ships with the MIDLAS VLS system. The ships in question will likely be Milgem.
 

Saithan

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Check out who produces the stabilized turrets in other countries, do they face any shortages despite of being a large company?

Plus Aselsan had to form that division unwillingly in 2000s, it has been founded matured and became a well known brand worldwide where navies started to pick Aselsan's weapon systems by preference. Why should Aselsan think that division is a burden?

Again, all aselsan needs to do is produce, assemble and deliver a product that they have been making since 2010 there won't be any R&D or testing procedures for this well known product. The production line exists, personnel exists, all they need is orders to make some deliveries.

It doesnt involve steps like you have mentioned, it is quite straightforward like a serial production. It is literally, 'make, test for quality and qualification, deliver'. It is a well known product it even rarely needs a fix after installed aboard.

They have delivered 30-40 weapon systems to Turkmenistan in a few years back in 2010s. Which shows the production line has a decent capacity and low failure rate.


This is what i am afraid of, their time is very limited to make the first pair of the guns. If not the platform itself they might be getting control boards and software from abroad to make it ready for trials in 15-18 months.

In such deals the Navy should require the source code of the control systems to prove the authenticity, they used to do it earlier for something else.


Maybe it’s a solution based on Aselsans productd.
 

Anmdt

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From the messages of Ismail Demir: Vertical Launch System: National missiles will be launched from this system. While the works are being carried out, care is taken in the planning so that the ships in the navy (active duty) will not be disrupted.



@Anmdt Apparently, Ismail Demir is talking about equipping existing ships with the MIDLAS VLS system. The ships in question will likely be Milgem.

In this text it wasn't mentioned that way, maybe the reporter mixed up the content?

It wouldnt be possible to install without interrupting the duty, ship will need at least few months to install those.

Probably it was referring to the construction schedule of the F-515, that it will not interrupt the schedule.
Also it is possible they may need to do some test fires after ship has been commissioned.
 

Anmdt

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Maybe it’s a solution based on Aselsans productd.
If this was the case Aselsan would take a part in the JV with a share.
 

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hi

I tried to find the answer in this thread but I couldn't , do all 4 ships from Barbaros class are equipped with 16 VLS ?? as far as I know it's only 2 ships and the other 2 is equipped with rim-7 sea sparrow . If not , will the half life modernization program is going to add 16 vls to the ships which have non ?


another question , why the half life modernization program doesn't include adding Cenk-s radar since the modernization program will make Barbaros class as capable as I-class in term of AA & EW warfare ?
 

Anmdt

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hi

I tried to find the answer in this thread but I couldn't , do all 4 ships from Barbaros class are equipped with 16 VLS ?? as far as I know it's only 2 ships and the other 2 is equipped with rim-7 sea sparrow . If not , will the half life modernization program is going to add 16 vls to the ships which have non ?


another question , why the half life modernization program doesn't include adding Cenk-s radar since the modernization program will make Barbaros class as capable as I-class in term of AA & EW warfare ?
Two ships (TN Track IIA) are equipped with 8 VLS, the other two (TN Track IIB) are equipped with 16 VLS.

And they already have Smart-S installed. It is cost management. But who knows maybe they will find some other ships to use Smart-S and upgrade Barbaros to use Cenk-S.
 
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