TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Zafer]

Seeing tiny pagers and radios exploding and taking lives imagine what F35 can do to us. There is no use to having F35 for us or any other foreign made weapon for that matter.

 

[Ryder]

Seeing tiny pagers and radios exploding and taking lives imagine what F35 can do to us. There is no use to having F35 for us or any other foreign made weapon for that matter.

To be honest the F35 would be a good deterent until domestic stuff are ready.

Sometimes you gotta deter your shitty neighbourhood.

 

[mehmed beg]

Seeing tiny pagers and radios exploding and taking lives imagine what F35 can do to us. There is no use to having F35 for us or any other foreign made weapon for that matter.

I think that Ramadan Kadirov was driving around in Tesla truck ,and it was switched off by Musk.
I am not sure is it true or not, because I read it on some Bosnian portals. Who knows?
As Havelsan director was told while on visit to Good Ol' US of A " We are not selling you the planes but sorties " . Now the question here is are the sorties against Greece included in the Menu???
I don't think that someone needs to be genius to answer that question.
So it is not a sale , it is that Turkey must absolutely align in everything that the Wast asks.
In that case, what would be the point in investing in the half of the things that Turkey does?

 

[Zafer]

To be honest the F35 would be a good deterent until domestic stuff are ready.

Sometimes you gotta deter your shitty neighbourhood.

If you could point to a use case it could be a lot more convincing.

 

[mehmed beg]

Actually, if this thing with Kadirov can be confirmed, I would run adverts for Togg with his picture.
Truly I would.

 

[Zafer]

I think that Ramadan Kadirov was driving around in Tesla truck ,and it was switched off by Musk.
I am not sure is it true or not, because I read it on some Bosnian portals. Who knows?
As Havelsan director was told while on visit to Good Ol' US of A " We are not selling you the planes but sorties " . Now the question here is are the sorties against Greece included in the Menu???
I don't think that someone needs to be genius to answer that question.
So it is not a sale , it is that Turkey must absolutely align in everything that the Wast asks.
In that case, what would be the point in investing in the half of the things that Turkey does?

The number of Starlink satellites has already reached 10240 and they are flying at low altitude above us. They can do D2C communication meaning direct to cellular two way communication. They can tap into your device anywhere in the world and do the worst thing you can expect. So no foreign equipment can be allowed on our territory. I would include foreign cars into the scope as they can wreak havoc easily. We should abandon use of every foreign equipment with some brains in it as much as we can. I am willing to use older generation phones and computers for this reason if they can be made locally.

 

[dBSPL]

To be honest the F35 would be a good deterent until domestic stuff are ready.

Sometimes you gotta deter your shitty neighbourhood.

Turkiye had an order for 40 F-35As, 6 of which were produced and delivered, while the 34 F-35As registered in the order book were shifted to the US Air Force's order book by changing their configuration.

I don't know whether the information pollution is intentional or not, but basically it is not even clear what is meant by these reports.

Do we only want these six aircrafts, or are we aiming to reiterate the firm order of 40 aircrafts? Or do we intend to go back to buying in high quantities as if nothing had happened? I think the last possibility is unlikely and even zero, and contrary to popular belief, if there is any truth in these reports, I believe that the targeted number is not even 40. However, until KAAN reaches the desired production capacity in the desired configuration, it could be to meet the F-35s that the Greek air force aims to put into service in the early-to-mid 2030s, which would indirectly make the risk factors in the KAAN program more manageable. Other than that, I don't find it serious, political mind games are more likely.

 

[somegoodusername]

Allegedly, in exchange for keeping the S-400 "inactive," the lifting of CAATSA sanctions and our return to the F-35 program are on the agenda with an addendum to the 2025 US Defense Budget Act.

The S-400s are already inactive, more inactive than the S-400 systems destroyed in Ukraine. That F-35s won’t be coming here for at least another 15 years.

Turkish government is already giving every concessions they want without having F-35s. No natural gas operation in East Med, no objection the PKK puppet state in Syria, except capturing few villages that no one lives before the elections, no objection to Cyprus-US deal, no objection to Armenia getting away with not oblying the free transit deal, no objection to US establishing large military bases in Greece, and tomorrow there will be no objection to Greece increasing their territorial waters, no objeciton to being a immigrant depot for the EU, current government even tried to bypass Montreux Treaty to let Americans in Black Sea, thankfully they couldn't find money for the Kanal İstanbul. My government will send me to fight against Iran for the interest of Israel in few years.

They are already getting anything except out underpants, what can we offer more for a deal for the F-35s? US is very confortable with Turkey having qualitative military disadvantage in the region.

 

[Strong AI]

New Offer from the U.S.: "If the S-400s are Stationed at Incirlik, Turkey Can Return to the F-35 Program"

According to a special report from the Greek newspaper Kathimerini, U.S. officials have made a new proposal to Turkey regarding the S-400 air defense system. The report states that U.S. officials suggested a 'soft' deactivation of the Russian missile systems as a way to remove the obstacle to selling F-35 fighter jets to Turkey.

The report highlights that a detailed offer was made by the U.S. during the summer to resolve the issue surrounding Turkey's purchase of the Russian-made S-400 air defense system. U.S. officials proposed placing the Russian missile system at the Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey, within a U.S.-controlled section of the base. This way, the missiles would remain in Turkey, preserving Turkey’s agreement with Russia, while still addressing U.S. and NATO concerns.

The report explains that, despite the complexity of the issue, both sides now seem eager for successful negotiations. This solution would resolve a significant issue for Washington and NATO and allow Turkey to rejoin the F-35 fighter jet program.

According to Kathimerini, Michael Rubin, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and former Pentagon official, confirmed that White House and Pentagon officials presented this proposal to high-level officials in July. Rubin noted that during a visit to Turkey on July 1-2, 2024, Deputy Defense Secretary for International Security Affairs, Celeste Wallander, and Senior Director for Europe at the U.S. National Security Council, Michael Carpenter, discussed reviving the F-35 deal with their Turkish counterparts.

Rubin said the U.S. asked Turkey to either hand over the S-400s to the U.S. or transfer them to the U.S.-controlled section at Incirlik in exchange for re-entering the F-35 program.

Following the visit, the U.S. Embassy in Ankara reported that Wallander and Carpenter met with Turkish officials to discuss "developing additional areas of enhanced partnership and strengthening long-standing defense ties."

When asked by Kathimerini about the status of the negotiations, Pentagon spokesperson Javan Rasnake reiterated the U.S. position: “Since 2019, we have communicated our stance to Turkey regarding the acquisition of the S-400 system and the legislative consequences. There has been no change in the U.S. position or the legislation.”

However, the fact that this plan was put forward, along with recent legislative attempts in Congress, suggests ongoing efforts to resolve the S-400 issue, with various options being considered. Rubin indicated that possible changes in U.S. policy or legislation could be imminent.

Rubin further commented on this intense phase happening just months before the U.S. elections, saying that the most dangerous time in U.S. foreign and defense policy is during the collapse of an administration, as outgoing presidents no longer feel accountable to voters. He added that the Biden administration appears more reckless than most.

According to Kathimerini sources, Turkey’s response at this stage has not been positive, but negotiations are expected to continue this week during the UN General Assembly in New York. Rubin added that Turkish officials rejected the proposal, stating they would keep the systems within Turkey. However, the deal is not dead, as the revival of the F-35 agreement remains on the agenda for both the U.S. and Turkey as leaders and security officials meet at the UN General Assembly.

The sentiment in Washington is that, despite the ongoing issues in U.S.-Turkey relations, there is willingness to lift sanctions under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) and allow Turkey back into the F-35 program if the S-400 issue is resolved.

The systematic progress toward resolving this issue, following the resolution of the F-16 matter, suggests that U.S. officials are working to close this chapter carefully and deliberately.

ABD’den yeni teklif: “S-400’ler İncirlik’e yerleştirilirse Türkiye F-35 programına dönebilecek” – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Nutuk]

New Offer from the U.S.: "If the S-400s are Stationed at Incirlik, Turkey Can Return to the F-35 Program"

Only extremely stupid, desperate politicians would accept such an offer. It is a clear trap to block any Turkish BRICS aspirations.
I hope we do not have such extreme stupid politicians

 

[Merzifonlu]

I hope we do not have such extreme stupid politicians

I am not optimistic about this at all. I think the fact that RTE keeps making U-turns and doing them with the worst possible timing would prove me right.

 

[Lool]

New Offer from the U.S.: "If the S-400s are Stationed at Incirlik, Turkey Can Return to the F-35 Program"

According to a special report from the Greek newspaper Kathimerini, U.S. officials have made a new proposal to Turkey regarding the S-400 air defense system. The report states that U.S. officials suggested a 'soft' deactivation of the Russian missile systems as a way to remove the obstacle to selling F-35 fighter jets to Turkey.

The report highlights that a detailed offer was made by the U.S. during the summer to resolve the issue surrounding Turkey's purchase of the Russian-made S-400 air defense system. U.S. officials proposed placing the Russian missile system at the Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey, within a U.S.-controlled section of the base. This way, the missiles would remain in Turkey, preserving Turkey’s agreement with Russia, while still addressing U.S. and NATO concerns.

The report explains that, despite the complexity of the issue, both sides now seem eager for successful negotiations. This solution would resolve a significant issue for Washington and NATO and allow Turkey to rejoin the F-35 fighter jet program.

According to Kathimerini, Michael Rubin, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and former Pentagon official, confirmed that White House and Pentagon officials presented this proposal to high-level officials in July. Rubin noted that during a visit to Turkey on July 1-2, 2024, Deputy Defense Secretary for International Security Affairs, Celeste Wallander, and Senior Director for Europe at the U.S. National Security Council, Michael Carpenter, discussed reviving the F-35 deal with their Turkish counterparts.

Rubin said the U.S. asked Turkey to either hand over the S-400s to the U.S. or transfer them to the U.S.-controlled section at Incirlik in exchange for re-entering the F-35 program.

Following the visit, the U.S. Embassy in Ankara reported that Wallander and Carpenter met with Turkish officials to discuss "developing additional areas of enhanced partnership and strengthening long-standing defense ties."

When asked by Kathimerini about the status of the negotiations, Pentagon spokesperson Javan Rasnake reiterated the U.S. position: “Since 2019, we have communicated our stance to Turkey regarding the acquisition of the S-400 system and the legislative consequences. There has been no change in the U.S. position or the legislation.”

However, the fact that this plan was put forward, along with recent legislative attempts in Congress, suggests ongoing efforts to resolve the S-400 issue, with various options being considered. Rubin indicated that possible changes in U.S. policy or legislation could be imminent.

Rubin further commented on this intense phase happening just months before the U.S. elections, saying that the most dangerous time in U.S. foreign and defense policy is during the collapse of an administration, as outgoing presidents no longer feel accountable to voters. He added that the Biden administration appears more reckless than most.

According to Kathimerini sources, Turkey’s response at this stage has not been positive, but negotiations are expected to continue this week during the UN General Assembly in New York. Rubin added that Turkish officials rejected the proposal, stating they would keep the systems within Turkey. However, the deal is not dead, as the revival of the F-35 agreement remains on the agenda for both the U.S. and Turkey as leaders and security officials meet at the UN General Assembly.

The sentiment in Washington is that, despite the ongoing issues in U.S.-Turkey relations, there is willingness to lift sanctions under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) and allow Turkey back into the F-35 program if the S-400 issue is resolved.

The systematic progress toward resolving this issue, following the resolution of the F-16 matter, suggests that U.S. officials are working to close this chapter carefully and deliberately.

ABD’den yeni teklif: “S-400’ler İncirlik’e yerleştirilirse Türkiye F-35 programına dönebilecek” – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

This is a clear trap

I mean, it is clear that the US wants to study the S400 along with destroying any potential BRICS+ involvement. Moreover, they are potentially trying to destroy Turkish/Russian relation amidst a time when Russia has the upper hand in the Ukrainian war

Only A truly dumb chimpanzee would agree to the deal at this point. We have already seen how the F35s are overrated amd super expensive to operate especially with the fact that a shitty new password must be procured from the US everyday in order to operate the plane

Rn, the plan should be to domesticate hurjet and finish its armed version ASAP; along with parallel development of Turkish engines, AD systems, EW systems, and Ozgur program

 

[RMZN]

This is a clear trap

I mean, it is clear that the US wants to study the S400 along with destroying any potential BRICS+ involvement. Moreover, they are potentially trying to destroy Turkish/Russian relation amidst a time when Russia has the upper hand in the Ukrainian war

Only A truly dumb chimpanzee would agree to the deal at this point. We have already seen how the F35s are overrated amd super expensive to operate especially with the fact that a shitty new password must be procured from the US everyday in order to operate the plane

Rn, the plan should be to domesticate hurjet and finish its armed version ASAP; along with parallel development of Turkish engines, AD systems, EW systems, and Ozgur program

Not as overrated as the S400, which we also paid for, received yet still has absolutely no use. At least F35s would be viable to use against anything Assad or Iran might pull, especially since iran is becoming more and more of a safehaven for pkk terrorists. Same thing applies to the russians in syria. They are still our enemy and directly attacked Turkish troops once before.

 

[Lool]

Not as overrated as the S400, which we also paid for, received yet still has absolutely no use. At least F35s would be viable to use against anything Assad or Iran might pull, especially since iran is becoming more and more of a safehaven for pkk terrorists. Same thing applies to the russians in syria. They are still our enemy and directly attacked Turkish troops once before.

Turkey isnt using the S400s to avoid antagonising the US but that doesnt mean that they are useless. They are still the longest range AD system that Turkey has till date

Moreover, why on bloody earth would I fly an F35 that costs around 10k an hour to operate so that I can a drop a 1000$ bomb when I can fly an Akinci or a Tb2 to do the job

If your only reason for buying an F35 is to fight Assad and Iran, then your nation will go bankrupt in only 1 year. You ppl didnt learn anything from the Russian/Ukrainian war it seems.

Again, we can conclude that the F35 is over-rated and just isnt suitable for Turkey anymore

 

[Nutuk]

Whether choosing S-400 before CAATSA was right or not can be debated, but going along with placing S-400 under US care at Incirlik would be a ridiculous step, a harakiri of the brain.

 

[RMZN]

Turkey isnt using the S400s to avoid antagonising the US but that doesnt mean that they are useless. They are still the longest range AD system that Turkey has till date

Moreover, why on bloody earth would I fly an F35 that costs around 10k an hour to operate so that I can a drop a 1000$ bomb when I can fly an Akinci or a Tb2 to do the job

If your only reason for buying an F35 is to fight Assad and Iran, then your nation will go bankrupt in only 1 year. You ppl didnt learn anything from the Russian/Ukrainian war it seems.

Again, we can conclude that the F35 is over-rated and just isnt suitable for Turkey anymore

Not only is the S400 yet another foreign made system, its Russian made. We have to rely on Russia for even maintenance, what will that look like if they are actively needed in a case of war? Will the S400 do any good against Russian aircraft threatening Turkish troops in syria?

Our Akincis and TB2s arent flying in iranian airspace striking pkk targets now, are they?

Assad and Iran are the two most active threats at the moment. At least whilst Russia is still preoccupied in Ukraine. Both directly and indirectly harbor pkk terrorists and are hostile towards Turkish interests.

The F-35 is a proven offensive capability which can be used to deter enemies.

The S-400 has proven its inability in Ukraine

 

[Zafer]

Not only is the S400 yet another foreign made system, its Russian made. We have to rely on Russia for even maintenance, what will that look like if they are actively needed in a case of war? Will the S400 do any good against Russian aircraft threatening Turkish troops in syria?

Our Akincis and TB2s arent flying in iranian airspace striking pkk targets now, are they?

Assad and Iran are the two most active threats at the moment. At least whilst Russia is still preoccupied in Ukraine. Both directly and indirectly harbor pkk terrorists and are hostile towards Turkish interests.

The F-35 is a proven offensive capability which can be used to deter enemies.

The S-400 has proven its inability in Ukraine

We have Kızılelma and Anka3 coming up in the stealth department. Iran, Syria and even Russia are not hard to deal with. We need weapons to deal with the hard ones and we are making them.

 

[2033]

If they denigrate the F-35 project so much and then get involved in the project again, they deserve the heaviest insults. For years, when we said we needed the F-35, they insulted us in every way.

 

[Khagan1923]

If the Greek media is reporting than it means they being fed information either by stooges in congress or someone who works in the state department.

They were also the first ones to report about the F-16V agreement.

I said years ago that I expect Türkiye to return to the F-35 from 2025 onward.

Looks like I’m gonna be right.

 

[Iskander]

Whether choosing S-400 before CAATSA was right or not can be debated, but going along with placing S-400 under US care at Incirlik would be a ridiculous step, a harakiri of the brain.

Information for thought: does Turkey need or does not need an F35?

"The Arabs refused American fighters."

The United Arab Emirates does not intend to resume negotiations on the purchase of fifth-generation F-35 fighter jets from the United States, regardless of the outcome of the American presidential election, Reuters reported, citing a UAE government official.
“Our position remains unchanged and we do not expect discussions on the F-35 to resume in the foreseeable future, regardless of the outcome of the upcoming US elections,” said an unnamed Emirati government official, - writes Ayna az.

BƏƏ F-35 qırıcılarının alınması ilə bağlı danışıqların bərpasından imtina edib

www.ayna.az