A
No, just the camera almost not picking up the rotating propeller. Full screen it and look very close for the propeller.
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Zafer
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Turbine for sure but the 750hp is the one we will be watching for.
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what i see is a perfect target for IR missiles.
mulj
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On left side is propeler motor, maybe it is kind of frame endurance testing with turboprop engine.
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I rather meant when it is flying.
mulj
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It would still be dangerous weapon fast intruding and poking enemy defence, in proper operational conditions dont see weakness of the turboprop engine on akinci especially it it provide significantly more speed.
it was designed to drop SDB, SOM and other missiles(it can carry all air to ground bombs and missiles in Turkey) from a safe distance without entering enemy airspace.. that way all f16 fleet can be suited with air to air fight loads. on the other hand, as its going to have AESA radar, it can use its ISAR and SAR, use its EW systems against missiles with radar head(AESA radar alone will do all of them), and be far from 25km range of IIR missiles. you can easily blind IR missiles(which normally has longer range than IIR, as Russia prefers it) with flares... at 50000 or 40000 feet above, it wouldnt have that much heat as turbofan engine... it will even be easier to blind it... the worst case scenario is it will have air to air missiles and its not secret that it can also stop those missiles with its own missiles.. in case there are any surprises on the way.. if they fly in group, they could even take care of each others..
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T
Although Piston engines has less heat signature, there will be heat output in every way. No way out, you have to brace all risks.
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Well i hate seeing a Turbo-jet installed with a direct exhaust outlet, without any IR suppression.
If TAI did the same,i would say the same.
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Their first time working with a high temp exhaust. Probably delivered by the engine manufacturer and installed as is.
I just made my point, Army wouldn't buy this drone with turboprop if they don't do anything to suppress IR signature. Even metal at the exhaust tip is naked.
Check out US drones with a similar engine, you will see the exhaust is on top, directed into propeller, covered by non metallic insulation.
A naked metallic hot point is never appreciated, It is the major rule of the IR signature management.
unregulated exhaust temp of a diesel engine after turbocharger (probably dual) is 150-200 C
unregulated exhaust temp of a turbojet is 500-600 C.
It is not only about the exhaust temp which they also need to condition, but the metallic part at the exhaust tip is naked.
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E
Ad-hominem is not allowed in our forum. If you have something to counter another poster's arguments, please say it.
It's not a turbojet but a turboprop. One of the many things the designers at Baykar know better than you.
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Turboprop =turbojet/turbofan+shaft+gear+propeller = Turbo-propeller.
Google it for basics.
Red- propeller
Green- turbojet/turbofan
I am not implying they don't know about it, i am just hoping they won't deliver it such.
regarding to this part, i have sufficient knowledge on IR signature suppression.
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Zafer
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You are missing a major difference between turbojet and turboshaft. Turboshaft is not meant to generate thrust therefore the exhaust gas is less energetic.
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both are open cycles which directly sends freshly burnt fuel+air mixture out.
Both works in a similar way while one focuses increasing output-exhaust momentum, the other focuses on conversion of this momentum into rotational one.
If you carefully look other cases which turboprop, turboshafts are applied you will see enough exhaust length, metallic parts covered with insulators and IR suppressors installed at exhaust outlets.
the problem here is not about type of the engine but exhaust is still at the same temperature as a turbojet for being a jet-outlet, and exhaust, which constantly will be warmed up to the exhaust temperature, and is naked.
S
Guys, i have deleted a few posts here which were "Ad-hominem"
If a poster is coming with an argument, attack the argument, not to the poster.
"Who are you to know, X would know better than you, You are this, You are that" are not arguments but attacking to the personality of the poster.
We said this many times on this forum that "Ad-hominem" is strictly forbidden but we see some users insists on this course. Moderation will now be more strict on this issue for the sake of forum quality.
If a poster is coming with an argument, attack the argument, not to the poster.
"Who are you to know, X would know better than you, You are this, You are that" are not arguments but attacking to the personality of the poster.
We said this many times on this forum that "Ad-hominem" is strictly forbidden but we see some users insists on this course. Moderation will now be more strict on this issue for the sake of forum quality.
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Would be nice to see, purely for the innovation aspect. However, it's an unmanned aircraft - not necessary at all
I mean, there's so many manned aircraft in inventory that would benefit more from IR suppression such as our Meltems III
E
Regarding IR suppression, Akinci will be flying far above the range of IR guided missiles, and against aircraft launched AA missiles or SAMs: it's not a stealth aircraft so it's pointless to hide the IR signature when it will be visible to radar anyway. As I said, you have some kind of grudge against Baykar which is why an otherwise educated person like you is coming up with these irrational reasons to trash them.
it will have AESA radar, basically, using AESA, it can also attack to those incoming missiles with radar head, or simply to their main air defense radar, once it learns its working radar spectra, ic can send fake radar signals to make the radar receive lets say 100 different radar signal showing there are 100 more targets so good luck for the system to shoot it down.. but as he mentioned, you also need to hide the heat signature...
on the other hand, because of the stealth missiles, all countries invest in their thermal cameras to detect stealth aircraft even from 100km away, UK is very good at it with Typhoon jet.. same with rafale...
on the other hand, there are two reasons, why akinji is made!
1) it is the only one can shoot SOM, which it will shoot it from 300-400km away, so no threat and all other f16 can focus on air to air missiles. (Aksungur able to carry all other ground bombs)
2) as radar develops, with AESA radar, you dont need big radar to see far, with small AESa radar which can feet to Akinji, it can search almost 200-250 km away. with a good air to air missiles, it can shoot missiles before those jets comes close, unless they are stealth, and until that time Turkey will make its own stealth jet.
3) with a nice air to air missile capabilities, it has huge export advantage, which normally you dont sell your stealth drone, for example you can sell it to Libya, it can shoot all those chinese drones around. you can sell it to Azerbaijan. Russia doesnt sell us jets. same with Ukraine. same with Uzbekistan and so on.. until you make other jet powered versions that Turkey wouldnt really feel comfortable to sell, its a great product.. it can also fly 24 hour as Awacs in the future... or carry iir air to air missiles to shoot down coming cruise missiles... as they fly high, they see better ground hugging missiles and can shoot them with its missiles easily, even outside of the countries border, helping for ships while they reload their anti air missiles... USA just recently tested it and was successful... if i think more, i can find way more reasons
E
Rear-aspect IR signature wouldn't really come into play in that scenario since the Akinci and enemy jet would be facing each another.it will have AESA radar, basically, using AESA, it can also attack to those incoming missiles with radar head, or simply to their main air defense radar, once it learns its working radar spectra, ic can send fake radar signals to make the radar receive lets say 100 different radar signal showing there are 100 more targets so good luck for the system to shoot it down.. but as he mentioned, you also need to hide the heat signature...
on the other hand, because of the stealth missiles, all countries invest in their thermal cameras to detect stealth aircraft even from 100km away, UK is very good at it with Typhoon jet.. same with rafale...
on the other hand, there are two reasons, why akinji is made!
1) it is the only one can shoot SOM, which it will shoot it from 300-400km away, so no threat and all other f16 can focus on air to air missiles. (Aksungur able to carry all other ground bombs)
2) as radar develops, with AESA radar, you dont need big radar to see far, with small AESa radar which can feet to Akinji, it can search almost 200-250 km away. with a good air to air missiles, it can shoot missiles before those jets comes close, unless they are stealth, and until that time Turkey will make its own stealth jet.
3) with a nice air to air missile capabilities, it has huge export advantage, which normally you dont sell your stealth drone, for example you can sell it to Libya, it can shoot all those chinese drones around. you can sell it to Azerbaijan. Russia doesnt sell us jets. same with Ukraine. same with Uzbekistan and so on.. until you make other jet powered versions that Turkey wouldnt really feel comfortable to sell, its a great product.. it can also fly 24 hour as Awacs in the future... or carry iir air to air missiles to shoot down coming cruise missiles... as they fly high, they see better ground hugging missiles and can shoot them with its missiles easily, even outside of the countries border, helping for ships while they reload their anti air missiles... USA just recently tested it and was successful... if i think more, i can find way more reasons
Jamming/deception like that could work for older radars, but if the enemy jet also has an AESA radar, jamming or deceiving it by just using your own AESA radar isn't likely. Usually special ESM/ECM equipment is needed to achieve that against AESA systems. Also, some A2A missiles now have home-on-jam mode, so it might just make it easier for the missile to find you. But overall this is good for the Akinci because the enemy jet can't easily jam/deceive its AESA radar either, yet the Akinci has no pilot and costs less, and has much longer loiter time. It has the advantage.
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I agree with you and I'm surprised why you're under attack for stating the obvious.
My main concern is detectability though.
The exhaust and flames were visible on "Akıncı Documentary" too, even the IR signature of the engine and aircraft is accessible. Without IR suppression as well as RCS reduction Akıncı's survivability will be lower against an enemy that's equipped with FLIR/IRST systems. Baykar should work on signature reduction.
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