TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Afif]

My humble opinion is, if warhead weight is 35kg it does not necessarily carry 35kg explosive.
We know that usually a good amount of weight goes to the warhead casing.

For example, MK-83 is basically a warhead with fuze. It has total weight of 460kg yet has a filling weight of 202kg explosive only.

Similarly, afaik Tomahawk's warhead has a total weight of 1000lbs, but has a filling weight of 450lbs only.

Here you guys can see (blue) warhead casing in the details.


So, I suspect if Super-Simsek's warhead is 35kg and it is a blast fragmentation, then its filling weight is porbbaly around 20kg. Which would be 2 times more powerful comapred to 155mm shells. (Modern designs consists of 10kg HE.)

 

[UkroTurk]

I asked to CHAT GPT:

"Süper Şimşek could land on TCG ANADOLU?"


Answer:
While it is true that the Turkish Hürjet fighter jet has the capability to land on the TCG Anadolu, it does not necessarily mean that the Süper Şimşek combat drone will also be able to land on the same vessel. The TCG Anadolu is primarily designed to support helicopter operations, and it may not have the necessary infrastructure or equipment for the landing and takeoff of combat drones. Additionally, the Süper Şimşek is a high-speed drone specifically designed for combat purposes, and its landing requirements may differ from those of a manned fighter jet like the Hürjet. Ultimately, the decision of whether or not the Süper Şimşek can land on the TCG Anadolu would depend on various factors, including the ship's capabilities and the specific design and requirements of the drone.

 

[Kaan Azman]

What other versions could we have for Anka 3?

1) Stealth Unmanned Bomber
2) Stealth Electronic Attack/Jammer
3) Stealth Electronic Support/Signals intelligence
4) Stealth visual intelligence and target painting
5) Refueling
6) Stealth Mini Awac to illuminate blind spots to Boeing 737 AEW&C

???

1-ANKA-3 will eventually be scaled up to fill that role
2, 3 4- Will rather be packed in one as modern platforms are like that
5-Pretty much in the picture, tanker is another way of naming it
6-Dunno how will they put radars on it, probably wingtips to avoid destablization but I recall they said something like putting radars

 

[Yasar_TR]

My humble opinion is, if warhead weight is 35kg it does not necessarily carry 35kg explosive.
We know that usually a good amount of weight goes to the warhead casing.

For example, MK-83 is basically a warhead with fuze. It has total weight of 460kg yet has a filling weight of 202kg explosive only.

Similarly, afaik Tomahawk's warhead has a total weight of 1000lbs, but has a filling weight of 450lbs only.

View attachment 59056
Here you guys can see (blue) warhead casing in the details.


So, I suspect if Super-Simsek's warhead is 35kg and it is a blast fragmentation, then its filling weight is porbbaly around 20kg. Which would be 2 times more powerful comapred to 155mm shells. (Modern designs consists of 10kg HE.)

Your humble opinion is correct to a degree. Yet may need some additions.
The reason it is called a warhead is because the job it is supposed to do and the damage it is supposed to cause is done by the entirety of the warhead itself.
The casing, what it contains as explosive, where it is to be detonated, all add up to to the explosive and damaging power it inflicts. How constricted the explosive is, how much oxygen it can have, what sort of damage is needed etc etc all play a part.
Take for example an old anti ship missile like Penguin. It has a warhead weight of 120kg. it’s total weight is around 380kg. Within this 120kg warhead the actual explosive PBXN-109 is 43kg in weight. But this warhead has to penetrate through the hull of a ship and has to explode with a delay inside the ship’s hull. During this it has to be robust enough to withstand the initial impact and then inside the hull has to explode so that all the parts of the warhead will fragment and cause extensive explosive damage to ships infrastructure.
Whereas in an anti ship missile explosive chemical weight is typically more than 1/3rd of the total weight of a warhead, in an artillery round, which is effectively almost the warhead itself, the explosive chemical’s weight is around 1/6th to 1/5th. It is filled with a mixture of RDX-TNT. (A 43kg M107HE shell has 6.6 kg explosive, a 47kg M795HE shell has 9.1kg explosive) Depending on how the shell is to detonate and explode the mixture content, the shell construction is designed.
An artillery shell explodes in open air. Therefore it has to be designed accordingly. An Anti ship warhead explodes inside the hull of a ship in a confined space. So it has to be designed accordingly too.
Blast kinematics of the two are very different.
Harpoon AGM-84 missile has a warhead of 220kg in weight; But contains 97kg of chemical explosives. This explosive contains TNT and Destex which is specially effective in moist/wet surroundings.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I asked to CHAT GPT:

"Süper Şimşek could land on TCG ANADOLU?"


Answer:
While it is true that the Turkish Hürjet fighter jet has the capability to land on the TCG Anadolu, it does not necessarily mean that the Süper Şimşek combat drone will also be able to land on the same vessel. The TCG Anadolu is primarily designed to support helicopter operations, and it may not have the necessary infrastructure or equipment for the landing and takeoff of combat drones. Additionally, the Süper Şimşek is a high-speed drone specifically designed for combat purposes, and its landing requirements may differ from those of a manned fighter jet like the Hürjet. Ultimately, the decision of whether or not the Süper Şimşek can land on the TCG Anadolu would depend on various factors, including the ship's capabilities and the specific design and requirements of the drone.

Super Simsek does not land in a conventional manner. Like its smaller sibling it can come back to base and do a parachute landing. So if launched from a ship, it will return and land close by at sea where it can be recovered from.
There are also studies about recovering it from air with a C130 plane.


PS Hurjet’s landing on TCG Anadolu is over exaggerated. It needs a hook and arresting wire landing. Most importantly Anadolu’s rear lift needs to be removed. Best option is TCG Trakya built specifically for the job.

 

[Afif]

Your humble opinion is correct to a degree. Yet may need some additions.
The reason it is called a warhead is because the job it is supposed to do and the damage it is supposed to cause is done by the entirety of the warhead itself.
The casing, what it contains as explosive, where it is to be detonated, all add up to to the explosive and damaging power it inflicts. How constricted the explosive is, how much oxygen it can have, what sort of damage is needed etc etc all play a part.
Take for example an old anti ship missile like Penguin. It has a warhead weight of 120kg. it’s total weight is around 380kg. Within this 120kg warhead the actual explosive PBXN-109 is 43kg in weight. But this warhead has to penetrate through the hull of a ship and has to explode with a delay inside the ship’s hull. During this it has to be robust enough to withstand the initial impact and then inside the hull has to explode so that all the parts of the warhead will fragment and cause extensive explosive damage to ships infrastructure.
Whereas in an anti ship missile explosive chemical weight is typically more than 1/3rd of the total weight of a warhead, in an artillery round, which is effectively almost the warhead itself, the explosive chemical’s weight is around 1/6th to 1/5th. It is filled with a mixture of RDX-TNT. (A 43kg M107HE shell has 6.6 kg explosive, a 47kg M795HE shell has 9.1kg explosive) Depending on how the shell is to detonate and explode the mixture content, the shell construction is designed.
An artillery shell explodes in open air. Therefore it has to be designed accordingly. An Anti ship warhead explodes inside the hull of a ship in a confined space. So it has to be designed accordingly too.
Blast kinematics of the two are very different.
Harpoon AGM-84 missile has a warhead of 220kg in weight; But contains 97kg of chemical explosives. This explosive contains TNT and Destex which is specially effective in moist/wet surroundings.

Excellent post. Casing is an important part of the game in all types of warheads. (And it is definitely not some waste of payload)
I was planning add that crucial part to avoid misunderstanding but you beat me there. (with such great details and nuances)

 

[Zafer]

I wouldn't exclude possibility of other landing options like external thrust vectoring for Hürjet landing on TCG Anadolu.

 

[Stimpy75]

 

[TheInsider]

Canik is in talks with Baykar to integrate 30x113mm cannon into Kızılelma. The mentioned autocannon is ADEN autocannon from AEI systems

A SYS Group Company

http://aei-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ADEN-30.pdf

 

[MADDOG]

As per İbrahim Sünnetçi, the ANKA-3 has not yet performed her maiden flight. A FF will eventually occur after the completion of at least 2 more taxi runs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1680087250225250304

 

[Merzifonlu]

Canik is in talks with Baykar to integrate 30x113mm cannon into Kızılelma. The mentioned autocannon is ADEN autocannon from AEI systems

Ever since KE was announced, I've given a lot of thought to the LOS issue when managing supersonic drones like KE.

I think, at some point, we will use "AWACS-style" flying UCAV operators to manage our UCAVs in the air. IMO we will probably modify the two-engine Anka-3 for that job.

Then the LOS range will be considerably extended and the supersonic KE with 30 mm autocannon can engage in close range engagement with the help of its advanced AI.

 

[Heartbang]

Ever since KE was announced, I've given a lot of thought to the LOS issue when managing supersonic drones like KE.

I think, at some point, we will use "AWACS-style" flying UCAV operators to manage our UCAVs in the air. IMO we will probably modify the two-engine Anka-3 for that job.

Then the LOS range will be considerably extended and the supersonic KE with 30 mm autocannon can engage in close range engagement with the help of its advanced AI.

Nope, too centralized of an approach.

I anticipate a peer-to-peer comm relay solution to be implemented on every platform made. Manned, unmanned, land, sea, air; every single platform deployed will act as a relay to everything else and the operator will be able to tap into any one of those platforms to issue directives using various different methods.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Nope, too centralized of an approach.

I anticipate a peer-to-peer comm relay solution to be implemented on every platform made. Manned, unmanned, land, sea, air; every single platform deployed will act as a relay to everything else and the operator will be able to tap into any one of those platforms to issue directives using various different methods.

I did not say that they will be guided by the operators moment by moment. UCAV operators will issue non-detailed orders, AI will implement the details.

However, we must be able to order any drone at any time and without any delay in LOS. Beyond operational requirements, this is also necessary in terms of AI law in military.

So no, I don't think this is an too centralized approach. BTW, peer to peer communication capability is a capability that should exist by default for us.

 

[uçuyorum]

I did not say that they will be guided by the operators moment by moment. UCAV operators will issue non-detailed orders, AI will implement the details.

However, we must be able to order any drone at any time and without any delay in LOS. Beyond operational requirements, this is also necessary in terms of AI law in military.

So no, I don't think this is an too centralized approach. BTW, peer to peer communication capability is a capability that should exist by default for us.

What laws are those, specifically? And how do they effect other traditional munitions like cruise missiles?

 

[YeşilVatan]

What laws are those, specifically? And how do they effect other traditional munitions like cruise missiles?

And to go even further; what prevents us from just renaming the platforms and doing whatever we want anyway? Like the Japanese do with their not-carriers.

 

[Merzifonlu]

By the way, according to the statement of @VLS on Defenceturk.com, there was no project or study for the 30 mm autocannon integration to the KE. So that news was not true.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1680271069473562627

Boyga 81mm mortar dropping uav

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

CATS Argos at 18000~ feet

First time I see picture in picture mode.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656710150416220189

 

[manifesto]

CATS at 18000~ feet

But not belong to CATS interface this image. This belong to Hensoldt Argos.

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

But not belong to CATS interface this image. This belong to Hensoldt Argos.

From the video. Looks like CATS to me? But you are right the strike was likely made with argos FLIR..