TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

YeşilVatan

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I'm thinking a little bit more logisticly. For me it doesn't make sense to make a special platform for every special mission , it would be a logistic nightmare. Besides , there are many ground and air systems on a wide scale. Some of them already developed or under developement.
One would think another kind of UAV would cause immense logistics problems, but this wouldn't be so. You have fuel and ammunition. But most mechanical parts are WW2 tech. The concept is very cost and logistics friendly. Instead of expending tens of millions of dollars for air defence against cheap MALE UCAVs, I think just a couple millions can create a capable fleet of these planes.

Developing its brain is the hard part. It needs to be able to hunt targets with its cannon. Even better news: it can down a lot of UAVs! Just 4-5 can (conceptually) take care of tens of UAVs or scare them off (if detected).

Case in point: Libya. Enemy uses wing loongs. We use anti-air countermeasures ranging from missiles to fucking laser weapons. I firmly believe if these weapons existed, we would solve that problem with a couple million bucks and wouldn't lose the planes either.

Anyway, there are more creative and informed people in this forum than me. But I don't find it convincing that logistics problem is the reason we don't create these.
 

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One would think another kind of UAV would cause immense logistics problems, but this wouldn't be so. You have fuel and ammunition. But most mechanical parts are WW2 tech. The concept is very cost and logistics friendly. Instead of expending tens of millions of dollars for air defence against cheap MALE UCAVs, I think just a couple millions can create a capable fleet of these planes.

Developing its brain is the hard part. It needs to be able to hunt targets with its cannon. Even better news: it can down a lot of UAVs! Just 4-5 can (conceptually) take care of tens of UAVs or scare them off (if detected).

Case in point: Libya. Enemy uses wing loongs. We use anti-air countermeasures ranging from missiles to fucking laser weapons. I firmly believe if these weapons existed, we would solve that problem with a couple million bucks and wouldn't lose the planes either.

Anyway, there are more creative and informed people in this forum than me. But I don't find it convincing that logistics problem is the reason we don't create these.
Hurkus can use 20mm cannons. It has a very high maneuverability, climbing ability and angle of attack. It has roughly twice the cruising speed of systems such as AKSUNGUR, and its stall speed can be as low as 70 knots. In other words, it can perform both rapid deployment and air patrol at very low speeds. It can climb to medium altitude within a few minutes after engaging at sea level. It can perform evasive maneuvers with a force of 7 G at sea level. Since the cockpit part will be completely removed, the fuel capacity can be doubled, or it can carry some special avionics systems that are suitable for very different needs and very heavy compared to UAV systems. While the AKSUNGUR system can operate for 12 hours with a 750kg payload, this will probably be much less in Hurkuş, but it will have a high angle of attack, cruise speed, close engagement capability and the ability to use fired ammunition types.

Since this system will be cheaper to operate than KIZILELMA, it can be used in risky areas where enemy tactical/strategic UAV and helicopter interceptors and rapid close air support are required. As a result, it will not be necessary to develop a system from scratch. An unmanned variant will be created within a program that has been going on for about 10 years.
 
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bisbis

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One would think another kind of UAV would cause immense logistics problems, but this wouldn't be so. You have fuel and ammunition. But most mechanical parts are WW2 tech. The concept is very cost and logistics friendly. Instead of expending tens of millions of dollars for air defence against cheap MALE UCAVs, I think just a couple millions can create a capable fleet of these planes.

Developing its brain is the hard part. It needs to be able to hunt targets with its cannon. Even better news: it can down a lot of UAVs! Just 4-5 can (conceptually) take care of tens of UAVs or scare them off (if detected).

Case in point: Libya. Enemy uses wing loongs. We use anti-air countermeasures ranging from missiles to fucking laser weapons. I firmly believe if these weapons existed, we would solve that problem with a couple million bucks and wouldn't lose the planes either.

Anyway, there are more creative and informed people in this forum than me. But I don't find it convincing that logistics problem is the reason we don't create these.
Could Tusaş's Şimşek target drone become a drone hunter if it were a little wider, a little longer?

This slightly enlarged version can also be used as a long-range kamikaze drone like the shahed 126. I don't think it's a hürkuş plane, it's both manned and non-radar.
 

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Like Neil Amstrong's first steps on moon.

But this time, it is not about the beginning of man's space adventure, but the first steps towards an age of machines that can think and function like humankind.
Bruh!1 then 7/8 years later, i would do my PhD thesis on sociology of drones!😂

Hopefully, baykar's will advance rapidly in the domain of AI drones so much that, not it will only create more high end job in Turkish aerospace industry, but also support some job in 'humanity department' of world's 'prestigious universities.'
Where some of the 'renowned scholars' of social sceince will write extensively on their 'great concern' about the 'polifiretion' of Turkish AI drones and its implications for 'western rights'...sorry...I mean, 'human rights'!
 

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Kızılelma will be in mass production from 2024-2025 onwards according to President Erdoğan

FkSFCtIXwAkpqz9.jpeg
 

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Kızılelma will be in mass production from 2024-2025 onwards according to President Erdoğan

View attachment 51565
I thought mass production would start in 2023, can't wait to see the KizilElma in action. We still need to see a compilation of the Akinci, like the tb2 we saw perform in the Syrian operation.
 

Aloster

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Kızılelma-A serial production can start as early as the end of 2023(optimistic estimate).
Dear @TheInsider ,
Is there any rumour about order number? I think we need at least two squadron (24 for it) Kızılelma-A (KE-A). Actually we need to order them immediatly asap, Baykar not a giant defence firm. To open new production line they need funds. With a fair price (15-20 mil USD for each just my personel guess according to Light combat aircraft prices) with included future AI developments and weapon integration agreements, we have to fund 30 percent of total amount of order (110 to 150 mil USD) so they speed up production. Meanwhile they continue to develop KE-A and new weapon integrations. Some of u ask why it is so urgent and funding unfinished project? I try to explain my thouhgts .
Actually As a flying aircraft without weapons and without perfect sensors KE-A still a very perfect weapon. Why?
When we look the Blue Homeland map, we see our border edge near the Girit island. Assume that we send 2 KE-A to patrolling the this area "too far and too near " for them. I mean they dont say nothing legaly they are too far from island but they are too near if they decide to make something. Also it is a good message to them to remind blue homeland belongs to whom. But they have to make something. Probably their decision sending F16 to suppression to KE-As. At the beginning they will show many video to humilate KE-As also for to show their "air superioty" . At here let me to give u some basic knowledge and to make some basic calculations depend on the google search . The Air Force's fleet of F-16 Fighting Falcon multi-role fighters cost $26,927 an hour (*1). At here I have to make an assumption about KE-A operiton cost ( I make this assumption according to Light combat aircraft) will be at least 6th times cheaper then a F16. So In a one year if we make 10000 hour extra flights (approx. 14 hour pair KE-As flight per day), they will to 8000 hour (11 hour pair F16s flight per day). At here in one year they have to spend 215 mil USD extra money compare to 45 mil USD from us. Of course it is not sustainable. Probably in a one year they will decide to buy light combat aircraft and they will buy two squadron Aermacchi M-346FA (Fighter Attack). They already order 10 for training purpose if they dont want to go a logistic hell again they will order it. But what is cost two squadron of them nearly 1.2 billion USD (*2). At here they also try to hire some of them from İsreal but I dont expect its cost cheaper than buying them. Anyway their decision and money. At here I want to underline another thing; logistic nightmare of Greece . My personel speculation (it needs verification may be not true), Their war doctrine prepared for short time conflict, it means although number of planes, is very big acc. to their population but their logistic not . If we increase the flight times, and also flight place (like using second another base) at a point they dont support their logistics. So eventually number of planes ready to flight start to decrease.
Meanwhile, I hope, in a 5 year also KE-B , KE-C (twin engine version) will start to produce. So at this time M-346FAs not enough to face them . Again they will start to send F16s. At here again we can send KE-A whenever we want. They will dont know which version will they faced so they have to send F16s . :) (At here I feel a bit devious). With my respects.

1) https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...51/cost-per-hour-to-fly-us-military-aircraft/
2) https://aircosmosinternational.com/...announced an,estimated at 1.2 billion dollars.

 

Heartbang

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Dear @TheInsider ,
Is there any rumour about order number? I think we need at least two squadron (24 for it) Kızılelma-A (KE-A). Actually we need to order them immediatly asap, Baykar not a giant defence firm. To open new production line they need funds. With a fair price (15-20 mil USD for each just my personel guess according to Light combat aircraft prices) with included future AI developments and weapon integration agreements, we have to fund 30 percent of total amount of order (110 to 150 mil USD) so they speed up production. Meanwhile they continue to develop KE-A and new weapon integrations. Some of u ask why it is so urgent and funding unfinished project? I try to explain my thouhgts .
Actually As a flying aircraft without weapons and without perfect sensors KE-A still a very perfect weapon. Why?
When we look the Blue Homeland map, we see our border edge near the Girit island. Assume that we send 2 KE-A to patrolling the this area "too far and too near " for them. I mean they dont say nothing legaly they are too far from island but they are too near if they decide to make something. Also it is a good message to them to remind blue homeland belongs to whom. But they have to make something. Probably their decision sending F16 to suppression to KE-As. At the beginning they will show many video to humilate KE-As also for to show their "air superioty" . At here let me to give u some basic knowledge and to make some basic calculations depend on the google search . The Air Force's fleet of F-16 Fighting Falcon multi-role fighters cost $26,927 an hour (*1). At here I have to make an assumption about KE-A operiton cost ( I make this assumption according to Light combat aircraft) will be at least 6th times cheaper then a F16. So In a one year if we make 10000 hour extra flights (approx. 14 hour pair KE-As flight per day), they will to 8000 hour (11 hour pair F16s flight per day). At here in one year they have to spend 215 mil USD extra money compare to 45 mil USD from us. Of course it is not sustainable. Probably in a one year they will decide to buy light combat aircraft and they will buy two squadron Aermacchi M-346FA (Fighter Attack). They already order 10 for training purpose if they dont want to go a logistic hell again they will order it. But what is cost two squadron of them nearly 1.2 billion USD (*2). At here they also try to hire some of them from İsreal but I dont expect its cost cheaper than buying them. Anyway their decision and money. At here I want to underline another thing; logistic nightmare of Greece . My personel speculation (it needs verification may be not true), Their war doctrine prepared for short time conflict, it means although number of planes, is very big acc. to their population but their logistic not . If we increase the flight times, and also flight place (like using second another base) at a point they dont support their logistics. So eventually number of planes ready to flight start to decrease.
Meanwhile, I hope, in a 5 year also KE-B , KE-C (twin engine version) will start to produce. So at this time M-346FAs not enough to face them . Again they will start to send F16s. At here again we can send KE-A whenever we want. They will dont know which version will they faced so they have to send F16s . :) (At here I feel a bit devious). With my respects.

1) https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...51/cost-per-hour-to-fly-us-military-aircraft/
2) https://aircosmosinternational.com/article/nigeria-buys-two-m-346-squadrons-3162#:~:text=Abuja has just announced an,estimated at 1.2 billion dollars.
The gist of your strategy is sound and I endorse that. Sounds like how Reagan used the Star Wars program to bankrupt the USSR. We should totally take aim at the Greek economy.
But I don't think we should use KE's for that. We have more attritable platforms for that.
(Or maybe we should attach Luneberg lenses to those to cover our stealth capabilities.)
 

Aloster

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The gist of your strategy is sound and I endorse that. Sounds like how Reagan used the Star Wars program to bankrupt the USSR. We should totally take aim at the Greek economy.
But I don't think we should use KE's for that. We have more attritable platforms for that.
(Or maybe we should attach Luneberg lenses to those to cover our stealth capabilities.)
Of course we have to add them because we are at peace times :)
 

YeşilVatan

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Dear @TheInsider ,
Is there any rumour about order number? I think we need at least two squadron (24 for it) Kızılelma-A (KE-A). Actually we need to order them immediatly asap, Baykar not a giant defence firm. To open new production line they need funds. With a fair price (15-20 mil USD for each just my personel guess according to Light combat aircraft prices) with included future AI developments and weapon integration agreements, we have to fund 30 percent of total amount of order (110 to 150 mil USD) so they speed up production. Meanwhile they continue to develop KE-A and new weapon integrations. Some of u ask why it is so urgent and funding unfinished project? I try to explain my thouhgts .
Actually As a flying aircraft without weapons and without perfect sensors KE-A still a very perfect weapon. Why?
When we look the Blue Homeland map, we see our border edge near the Girit island. Assume that we send 2 KE-A to patrolling the this area "too far and too near " for them. I mean they dont say nothing legaly they are too far from island but they are too near if they decide to make something. Also it is a good message to them to remind blue homeland belongs to whom. But they have to make something. Probably their decision sending F16 to suppression to KE-As. At the beginning they will show many video to humilate KE-As also for to show their "air superioty" . At here let me to give u some basic knowledge and to make some basic calculations depend on the google search . The Air Force's fleet of F-16 Fighting Falcon multi-role fighters cost $26,927 an hour (*1). At here I have to make an assumption about KE-A operiton cost ( I make this assumption according to Light combat aircraft) will be at least 6th times cheaper then a F16. So In a one year if we make 10000 hour extra flights (approx. 14 hour pair KE-As flight per day), they will to 8000 hour (11 hour pair F16s flight per day). At here in one year they have to spend 215 mil USD extra money compare to 45 mil USD from us. Of course it is not sustainable. Probably in a one year they will decide to buy light combat aircraft and they will buy two squadron Aermacchi M-346FA (Fighter Attack). They already order 10 for training purpose if they dont want to go a logistic hell again they will order it. But what is cost two squadron of them nearly 1.2 billion USD (*2). At here they also try to hire some of them from İsreal but I dont expect its cost cheaper than buying them. Anyway their decision and money. At here I want to underline another thing; logistic nightmare of Greece . My personel speculation (it needs verification may be not true), Their war doctrine prepared for short time conflict, it means although number of planes, is very big acc. to their population but their logistic not . If we increase the flight times, and also flight place (like using second another base) at a point they dont support their logistics. So eventually number of planes ready to flight start to decrease.
Meanwhile, I hope, in a 5 year also KE-B , KE-C (twin engine version) will start to produce. So at this time M-346FAs not enough to face them . Again they will start to send F16s. At here again we can send KE-A whenever we want. They will dont know which version will they faced so they have to send F16s . :) (At here I feel a bit devious). With my respects.

1) https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...51/cost-per-hour-to-fly-us-military-aircraft/
2) https://aircosmosinternational.com/article/nigeria-buys-two-m-346-squadrons-3162#:~:text=Abuja has just announced an,estimated at 1.2 billion dollars.
Bankrupting Greeks with a pissing contest...

That's some demon time stuff bro lol
 

Aloster

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Do we even make those?
Yes we can u can check target drone we use on them to simulate other aircraft. And for peace time we only patrolling our eez for humanitary reason to control irregular immigration. Also we increase to visibility of KE to relief greeks :)
 
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Aloster

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Yes, we do have ceramic lenses that increase the RCS, thats how Şimşek increases its RCS from a near LO number to F-16 levels
 

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