TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Binh Nguyen]

AI can estimate the whereabouts of the target in the 2 second latency time that satcoms suffer from.

Everything is like when you fire a fire-and-forget missile. Ground operators just need to choose the target they want to detroy. Then, TB2 will automatically keep track, release MAM, project laser pulse on target untill it is hit by MAM. Therefore, there is no any relay because of SatCom in this scenario.

 

[Era_shield]

Correct me if I am wrong. But the main weapon of TB2/3 , MAM-L is a laser guided bomb and it can hit fast moving ground armour and military trucks etc. If you introduce satcom to tb2 then you are limiting yourself to stationary targets due to the fact that the target may not be where you think it is because of signal latency introduced by satcom operations.
Tb2’s Range of operation has already been increased from 150km to 300km. This can be further improved by Relay UAV’s if needed.
So why is Baykar integrating satcom capability to the tb2?
Can it be something to do with electronic jamming and intervention susceptibility of line of sight operated tb2? By controlling the tb2 via satcom this problem can be solved. This was proved to be the case in Euphrates Shield operation where satcom operated Anka-S UAV’s were unaffected by EW effects.

Target tracking is done on the onboard computer systems (actually mostly by the EO system), so it would be unaffected by satellite latency. They would need to add some latency compensation for operator actions, but it wouldn't cause much problems.

In Libya, the limited range of its LOS comms became a big problem. It stalled the offensive at one point. I'm sure the TSK wants to remove this limitation ASAP.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I don't think the TB2-S will lose the capability to hit moving targets. C-Tech SOTM provide the data transfer rate of over 20MB per second so we can say operators on ground can receive data from TB2-S and send their command in real time. One more think, TB2 is equipped systems that can automatically keep track and project a moving target untill it is hit by MAM without need to get ground operators involve.

Signal latency is there. You can not avoid it with current technology. But you may overcome it by “AI” . USA reapers are still taken off and landed by on site operators in Afghanistan. Once in the air then USA mainland operators take charge. If there is program on board tb2 as explained by Zafer that compensate the 2 second latency, and as per your second sentence then OK.

 

[Test7]

TRANSFORMATION OF UAVS FROM A RECONNAISSANCE SURVEILLANCE PLATFORM TO A FORCE MULTIPLIER IN TURKEY​

With the GNAT 750-45 Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) System, which entered service in 1994, the Turkish Armed Forces (TAF) became the second NATO armed forces, after the USA, to use MALE (Medium Altitude Long Endurance) class advanced UAVs. Unfortunately, since the Turkish Air Force (TurAF) did not want to use an unmanned aircraft system at that time and the Turkish Army Aviation Command initially perceived UAVs as an extension of artillery units rather than an ISR platform, the GNAT 750-45 system, which was one of the most advanced UAV solutions of its time, was used only for artillery reconnaissance missions in Çorlu until 1997.​

Finally, the GNAT 750-45 UAV System (6 x aircraft, 1 x Ground Control Station/GCS, and 1 x Transportable Image Exploitation System/TIES), which was deployed to Batman Air Base in May 1997, was actively used by the 2nd Army UAV Unit in Internal Security Operations. Upon the successful performance of the 2nd Army UAV Unit (1st Fleet) in Internal Security Operations, two Improved GNAT (I-GNAT) UAVs and two more GCS were ordered under a contract signed in May 1998, and the systems were delivered in the same year.

The first studies were started on arming UAVs of different models (such as GNAT 750-45, I-GNAT, BAYRAKTAR, and MALAZGİRT Mini UAV, Heron, Searcher II, Dominator II, Aerostar, GÖZCÜ-I/Heron, ANKA Blok-A, BAYRAKTAR TB2, and KARAYEL) and classes (Mini, Tactical and MALE), which have been procured since May 1997 through purchase or lease, and were mainly used for reconnaissance and surveillance (Imagery Intelligence/IMINT) in Internal Security and Urban Operations, on the TUSAŞ ANKA Block-A MALE UAV in the early 2010s. Turkey's first armed ANKA Blok-A UAV, with double pack smart launchers under each wing, fired two live (with warhead) Roketsan Semi-Active Laser (SAL) guided CIRIT Missiles in May 2013 and scored two successful hits on the fixed target illuminated by the AselFLIR-300T FLIR system. However, according to the information I received, during the CİRİT Missile (entered the TAF inventory in May 2012) firing test conducted with the ANKA Block-A UAV, the aircraft had to descend to an altitude almost 10.000ft. because the missile was not suitable for firing from higher altitudes like 25,000 – 30,000ft (the rocket engine ignites immediately at launch and the missile has to descend/dive at a certain angle due to altitude). Therefore, to increase the mission's success and the survival of the UAV, smart micro munitions that can be fired from higher altitudes were needed (flight at low altitudes increases the chances of being detected due to visibility and engine noise).

Read More: https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...platform-to-a-force-multiplier-in-turkey-4231

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

Serially produced TAI AKSUNGUR will have a lighter airframe and break new records, TAI says.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326604751870586880

 

[Combat-Master]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326604751870586880

TB2 still being churned out.

 

[Binh Nguyen]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Bayraktar Akinci and Tai Aksungur were competitors for the Turkey Heavy MAL program and finally Akinci has won, right?

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Bayraktar Akinci and Tai Aksungur were competitors for the Turkey Heavy MAL program and finally Akinci has won, right?

No.. Aksungur is a self funded project by TAI developed in less than 1,5 years using many of the technologies developed for ANKA. There is no requirement from TSK yet for Aksungur, but I suspect it will be inducted anyway in the navy for anti submarine warfare. Then there is the Malaysian tender where TAI is competing with established actors for their maritime patrol aircraft program where media says Anka-S is competing, but my gut says TAI will offer Aksungur with it safer twin engines.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Bayraktar Akinci and Tai Aksungur were competitors for Turkey Heavy MAL program and finally Akinci has won, right?

Not quite, from off the top of my head there are some differences which make them both useful in their own right

Aksungur:

• 750kg payload
• much longer endurance
• slower
• Many variants, including ASW mission version

Akinci:

• 1350kg payload
• Less endurance
• Faster
• Capable of taking down other aircraft

Both will be in the inventory, Aksungur has already been tested with 12 MAM-L attached, so it most likely will be used for both ground missions as well as for naval patrols. Aksungur remained in the air for 28 hours with a large payload, and 49 hours without a payload. While the Akinci has more payload and is faster, I see the Aksungur as being the one which will be used the most. Think of it this way, Akinci is a larger Anka, meanwhile Aksungur is a larger TB2. One has better specs, the other is much more cost efficient.

 

[Ryder]

Not quite, from off the top of my head there are some differences which make them both useful in their own right

Aksungur:

• 750kg payload
• much longer endurance
• slower
• Many variants, including ASW mission version

Akinci:

• 1350kg payload
• Less endurance
• Faster
• Capable of taking down other aircraft

Both will be in the inventory, Aksungur has already been tested with 12 MAM-L attached, so it most likely will be used for both ground missions as well as for naval patrols. Aksungur remained in the air for 28 hours with a large payload, and 49 hours without a payload. While the Akinci has more payload and is faster, I see the Aksungur as being the one which will be used the most. Think of it this way, Akinci is a larger Anka, meanwhile Aksungur is a larger TB2. One has better specs, the other is much more cost efficient.

Both have weaknesses and strengths.

Really close I was really with the Akinci but damn the Aksungur is quite the machine.

Its too close to choose just one.

 

[Yasar_TR]

27 Eylül 2020 günü “CENAH-01” kodlu bir İHA (ANKA-I olduğu iddia edilmiştir) adeta elini kolunu sallayarak Ermenistan hava sahasında uçuş yapmıştı.

this Anka has flown over Yerevan on the way to Azerbaijan on 27th September with a Simsek target drone. In spite of all the Russian and Armenian air defence systems it was allowed to go through the air space. Can anybody care to elaborate why and how?

 

[Anmdt]

27 Eylül 2020 günü “CENAH-01” kodlu bir İHA (ANKA-I olduğu iddia edilmiştir) adeta elini kolunu sallayarak Ermenistan hava sahasında uçuş yapmıştı.

this Anka has flown over Yerevan on the way to Azerbaijan on 27th September with a Simsek target drone. In spite of all the Russian and Armenian air defence systems it was allowed to go through the air space. Can anybody care to elaborate why and how?

The airforce is known to recycle flight codes like many other does, it could be anything but Anka, could be even a transponder-receiver error for locating the drone. Note other incidents where same code was seen in Georgia but later was concluded to be airlift due to its altitude and speed beyond what Anka can reach.
And that Anka was pictured with simsek drone before /after tests, probably operated nearby to the border or its flight code was recycled with another, and was seen on map as passing through border, again it doesn't prove it has flown with simsek drone.
There are more drones flying with transponder turned off, than turned on, i think.

 

[what]

Azerbaijan’s drones owned the battlefield in Nagorno-Karabakh — and showed future of warfare​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nagorno-karabkah-drones-azerbaijan-aremenia/2020/11/11/441bcbd2-193d-11eb-8bda-814ca56e138b_story.html

If we can't turn all of this buzz into some serious sales, it's would be a big fucking shame.

 

[Hexciter]

Both have weaknesses and strengths.

Really close I was really with the Akinci but damn the Aksungur is quite the machine.

Its too close to choose just one.

Diesel will be quiter and have less vibrance compared to turboprop engine which will be a preferrance for ASubW and intelligence variants

 

[Kartal1]

Azerbaijan’s drones owned the battlefield in Nagorno-Karabakh — and showed future of warfare​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nagorno-karabkah-drones-azerbaijan-aremenia/2020/11/11/441bcbd2-193d-11eb-8bda-814ca56e138b_story.html

If we can't turn all of this buzz into some serious sales, it's would be a big fucking shame.

The exciting thing for me is that not even a quarter of the capability of that new warfare concept is shown here. If Turkey manages to implement fully the new doctrine together with the new systems connected into a centric warfare network then wait and see how countries are waiting on a tail for Turkish products and defence agreements. That whole thing is bigger than we know.

 

[Huelague]

TB2 is a limited platform that does not have any place left for reconnaissance or EW pods. And that is the reason why Bayraktar is working on TB3.

thats anka's job.
@İoannis Theodoratos

 

[Cabatli_TR]

If Akinci can sustain operations at around 35000-40000ft altitude (2 x 750hp turboprop version) while armed with the national bombs/missiles having a range around 100km, This drone will be almost untouchable by SAM missiles excluding long range SAMs. This altitude advantages will make Akinci a perfect hunter against naval threats as well. Think Akinci dropping the bomb (Kuzgun for exm) against a target locating around 50-60km horizontal range. To deal with a drone flying on these ranges, The related SAM missile must have capability of reaching around min 55km range and climbing around 12km altitude. These figures can't even be reached by majority of modern medium altitude sam systems. Besides, If we consider other factors such as swarm attack, jamming, decoy drone concept that will be used/is being used inside future/current warfare concept of Turkish Army, The SAMs won't have much chance against Turkish drones. The sole thing that must be done is to protect these drones against manned supersonic aircrafts. To achieve this mission, I think MIUS will be the perfect platform that is going to use speed advantages (max 950km/h) against these kind of threats. Arming MIUS with domestic air to air missiles (trials of Goktuğ family will start in this month) that will be hidden inside the stealth fuselage of drone will be benefical to convert this platform a good hunter against manned aircraft when they were operated inside advanced Turkish network.

 

[what]

You know all of this makes me wonder if our upcoming air defence products are tested against smaller and slower drones. Just think about the purchase that UAE just made.

 

[adenl]

You know all of this makes me wonder if our upcoming air defence products are tested against smaller and slower drones. Just think about the purchase that UAE just made.

The Korkut, Sungur and Hisar are all capable of dealing with the latest threats. They all come with high quality thermal imaging systems and the Korkut and Hisar with additional radars to detect and track targets. Especially the Korkut has been tested against small target drones the size of a Harop. For anything smaller, Turkey has a whole array of anti-drone systems in development that use EW, laser or fragmentation munitions.