Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Huelague]

You know I think the most important thing from you and among many other users here is having to explain to me what kind of magical powers NATO has that Ukraine doesn't in which the casualty and death rate would be lower if NATO got involved instead of hiding behind the Ukrainians as useful meat shields? I mean there has to be some kind of reason for the idea to be worshipped like a religious belief so there has to be useful sources and statistics that you have to confirm?

In a conventional war, NATO would crush Russia to the bones. But this comparison ist unfair. One state against 27! On the other hand, who cares fairness.

 

[SilverMachine]

I mean the lack of ammunition NATO can supply with equipment is enough to tell you that if Ukraine gets taken over the western countries will be taken over fast as well.

This is dumb. They're running out of ammo to *spare to give to Ukraine*, not running out of ammo they've allocated for themselves.

In any case, if war breaks out they'll make more ammo. That's how this goes, same as Russia's kicked into high gear with industry.

"If Ukraine loses, NATO's eastern countries get overrun" doesn't add up, like at all. For one, Poland's like second-tier most badass country in NATO, they probably couldn't beat Russia *alone* but they'd sure fuck them up more than Ukraine ever has, and they have plenty of men & material to throw into it. You chuck in Sweden & Finland in there with some regional war, Russia's not going to have a good day. They know this, which is why it'll end with Ukraine and maybe Moldova. Simply because, put crudely, we don't *actually* give a fuck about Ukraine or Moldova in the west, much as we posture as if we do. That's not the line, Poland is, Finland is.

How many US/UK soldiers you think have seen conflict? and if they have seen conflict what percentage have been in anything similar to the Ukraine war? So if western equipment hasn't dont jack shit

The first part is half true, but only half. Yes, while American & British (and Dutch and Australian and German and yadda yadda to a lesser degree) have been at war in one form or another for the past 20 years, it hasn't been a peer-against-peer type of war, that's fair. Ukrainians *are* currently more hardened in that regard.

What you're missing is, that doesn't necessarily count for a whole lot, as troops & countries learn quickly (as if to say the US & UK aren't prepared for anything Russia could ever throw at them - they totally are). Troops learn, they adapt, they get better under the circumstances they find themselves in. WWI, the Americans came in green as fuck, not knowing a thing, had to be shown the ropes by the Brits & French & Australians. Thing is, like 8-10 weeks later they were fucking up Germans left right & centre with superior numbers & gear and a lack of fatigue. That applies to war in general, we're seeing it right now: Russia fucking sucked in the opening year of this war - they've turned that around and are now pretty much man-for-man equal with the Ukrainians. This stuff is fluid.

As for "the western equipment hasn't done jackshit" part? Okay, cool, guess we'll just stop sending it. Ukes, you've apparently got this, don't need our toys anymore. Godspeed, you're on your own.

Yeah, you don't believe that. Any vehicle is vulnerable at a point, there was never any guarantee Abrams & Bradleys were going to turn the war in the Ukrainian's favor (I'd even go as far as saying no one in the west actually believed it *would*). They were still a hell of a lot better off having them than not, because their own stuff is...Ukrainian.

 

[Soldier30]

An episode of combat involving a Ukrainian M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA IFV, made in the United States. The video was filmed in the Pokrovsk direction, north of the village of Novogrodovka. The M2A2 Bradley IFV runs over a mine and begins firing circularly from a 25-mm M242 Bushmaster cannon. After which, having engaged reverse, the IFV runs over a mine again, after which part of the crew leaves the combat vehicle.

 

[blackjack]

This is dumb. They're running out of ammo to *spare to give to Ukraine*, not running out of ammo they've allocated for themselves.

In any case, if war breaks out they'll make more ammo. That's how this goes, same as Russia's kicked into high gear with industry.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html

"Russia is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or about 3 million a year, according to NATO intelligence estimates of Russian defense production shared with CNN, as well as sources familiar with Western efforts to arm Ukraine. Collectively, the US and Europe have the capacity to generate only about 1.2 million munitions annually to send to Kyiv, a senior European intelligence official told CNN.

The US military set a goal to produce 100,000 rounds of artillery a month by the end of 2025 — less than half of the Russian monthly output — and even that number is now out of reach with $60 billion in Ukraine funding stalled in Congress, a senior Army official told reporters last week."
Europe will still be walking into a battle with less firepower, and I haven't started on missile production either.

"If Ukraine loses, NATO's eastern countries get overrun" doesn't add up, like at all. For one, Poland's like second-tier most badass country in NATO, they probably couldn't beat Russia *alone* but they'd sure fuck them up more than Ukraine ever has, and they have plenty of men & material to throw into it. You chuck in Sweden & Finland in there with some regional war, Russia's not going to have a good day. They know this, which is why it'll end with Ukraine and maybe Moldova. Simply because, put crudely, we don't *actually* give a fuck about Ukraine or Moldova in the west, much as we posture as if we do. That's not the line, Poland is, Finland is.

Poland’s future armed forces take shape

In recent years, Poland has launched the largest modernisation programme for its armed forces in history.

euro-sd.com

Poland is like at 200k active duty troops, Russia's increase will be to 1.5 million troops. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/military-and-security-service-personnel-strengths/ atleast the EU would be at 1.34 million troops. And no magic has been displayed for the Ukrainians that allowed them any breakthroughs now. Poland's Abrams tanks would burn the same as ukrainian ones.

What you're missing is, that doesn't necessarily count for a whole lot, as troops & countries learn quickly (as if to say the US & UK aren't prepared for anything Russia could ever throw at them - they totally are). Troops learn, they adapt, they get better under the circumstances they find themselves in. WWI, the Americans came in green as fuck, not knowing a thing, had to be shown the ropes by the Brits & French & Australians. Thing is, like 8-10 weeks later they were fucking up Germans left right & centre with superior numbers & gear and a lack of fatigue. That applies to war in general, we're seeing it right now: Russia fucking sucked in the opening year of this war - they've turned that around and are now pretty much man-for-man equal with the Ukrainians. This stuff is fluid.

As for "the western equipment hasn't done jackshit" part? Okay, cool, guess we'll just stop sending it. Ukes, you've apparently got this, don't need our toys anymore. Godspeed, you're on your own.

Yeah, you don't believe that. Any vehicle is vulnerable at a point, there was never any guarantee Abrams & Bradleys were going to turn the war in the Ukrainian's favor (I'd even go as far as saying no one in the west actually believed it *would*). They were still a hell of a lot better off having them than not, because their own stuff is...Ukrainian.

a good cost of lives has to begin 1st, before the learning process begins on adapting to the battlefield. And the Ukrainians with NATO teaching and weaponry are currently not adapting to what russia is doing to them right now like it hasnt been half a month this November where they made more gains than the full month of october.