Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[blackjack]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858879004805042514

I think the ATACMs strikes will be on a very low severity scale. Time to carry out the usual.

 

[Soldier30]

An episode of a Ukrainian FPV drone pursuing a Russian UAZ Patriot. The drone was pursuing the Russian vehicle, but then the operator decided to change the target and returned to a group of soldiers, where it was shot down with small arms fire.

 

[Soldier30]

Russian Su-34, Su-24M and Su-25SM aircraft began using OFZAB-500 high-explosive incendiary aviation bombs with UMPK modules in Ukraine. Some media reported on the OFZAB-1500 bomb, but they are not made in Russia and are not listed in catalogs. The OFZAB-500 aerial bomb was developed by the Bazalt State Research and Production Enterprise and was adopted by Russia in 2001. Due to the combined effects of fragmentation, high explosive and thermal fields, the bomb is particularly effective and affects everything within a radius of 290 meters, the temperature at the epicenter of the explosion is about 900 degrees. The bomb weighs 500 kg, is made of cast iron and has an incendiary mixture weighing 250 kg and 37.5 kg of explosives. The Russian OFZAB-500 aerial bomb is dropped at an altitude of 900 to 12,000 meters at an aircraft speed of 550 to 1,850 km/h. When equipped with a UMPK, the flight range of the OFZAB-500 bomb is about 60 km.

 

[Huelague]

you're probably a little more optimistic than the Ukrainian President if you think Europe with a smaller equipment and ammunition production with lesser active-duty troops, fresh to no experience in this conflict can somehow beat a bigger force with more firepower and equipment. That is assuming the Chinese don't jump right in since like Russia they don't want NATO closer to their borders to further thwart their Taiwan dream.

Who said Europe? I said NATO.
Even then, a war is a „learning by doing“ game. I would not bet even in this constellation, no matter what a ‚Comedian‘ has said.

 

[blackjack]

Who said Europe? I said NATO.
Even then, a war is a „learning by doing“ game. I would not bet even in this constellation, no matter what a ‚Comedian‘ has said.

Alright here.
Russia > Europe.
Russia < Europe + US
Russia + China > Europe + US

I am assuming no one here is delusional enough to assume the Chinese will have a thumb up their ass watching everything transpire to have NATO move closer to their country from the west, north and closer to them from the east with the Kuril Islands situation.
It's not easy being a country having to move a huge number of troops across a vast body of water with the assumption ships won't get sunk by missiles. I think we know who has the manpower and firepower advantage at this point on where the battlefields will be. China is being treated poorly by the west like Russia as well.

I think NATO will not further escalate and just sit in the cuck chair with what Russia does with Ukraine.

 

[MaciekRS]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858531000025837761

 

[contricusc]

Russia > Europe.
Russia < Europe + US
Russia + China > Europe + US

Meanwile, in the real world:

Russia < Europe
China < US
Russia + China < Europe + US

 

[blackjack]

Meanwile, in the real world:

Russia < Europe
China < US
Russia + China < Europe + US

might be true in an alternate universe unless you can bother explaining how you think countries that produce less fire power with less manpower somehow can win. Wake me up when the west produces better missiles and begins using photonic radars soon.

 

[Relic]

you're probably a little more optimistic than the Ukrainian President if you think Europe with a smaller equipment and ammunition production with lesser active-duty troops, fresh to no experience in this conflict can somehow beat a bigger force with more firepower and equipment. That is assuming the Chinese don't jump right in since like Russia they don't want NATO closer to their borders to further thwart their Taiwan dream.
View attachment 72181
I think they are now already 3 years behind Taiwan in electronics production and their mass production on that keeps increasing (NATO countries have failed with their sanctions as usual). At this point Ukraine is going to have to make concessions to the conflict since NATO has awareness how far a war can escalate having no need for the losses. I think most users here fail to realize Ukraine to world leaders doesn't have that much importance around the world.



Come on man you have celebrated like 100 times for each Wunder waffle weapon the Ukrainians got in terms of turning the war around. Some are already backing off after Putin decided to sign a decree because they don't love Ukraine enough like you guys do.
View attachment 72179
You should already know better to not get your hopes up.

The Russians have never announced this, some high-ranking NATO officials which you guys believe will beat the Russians did.


Well, I think BMs are like the last wonder weapon that will fail like the last wonder weapons and based on production they might receive a limited amount. I don't think we are going to see another major counteroffensive from Ukraine in 2025. I think Europe is also going to pull out the financial support after Trump does.


the soviet stockpile is getting replaced as we speak.
View attachment 72180
I dont even think Europe started any mass production assuming they can afford production with whatever fuel their country receives to ease down with the energy prices.


Has this been done yet? I think getting their economy back to shape is their 1st requirement Mr. John Bolton. Do they have the fuel and energy to start any kind of production 1st? I am assuming the US can help but we will have to wait for 2 months. I think we all know the outcome of what will happen after that 2-month time period which will more than likely not benefit Ukraine.

Can't figure out if you are trolling or asking legitimate questions, but I'll bite on your questions regarding the West's military ramp up. Here are just SOME examples of the more than $1.5 Trillion usd worth of new weapons platforms that the West has ordered recently.

USA
- 2 Gerald Ford Class ACCs
- 2 America Class ASSs
- 10 Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers
- 3 Zumwalt Class Destroyers
- 10 Virginia Class Attack Submarines
- 104 F-15EX Eagle II Fighter Jets
- 63 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 204 F-35C Fighter Jets
- 76 F-18 Super Hornet Fighter Jets
- 200 M109A7 155mm Howitzers
- 504 M10 Booker LBTs
- 300 DVHA1 Stryker APCs
- 300 Bradley A4 IFVs
- 240 ACV IFVs
- 16,901 JLTVs

Canada Purchases
- 88 F-35s Fighter Jets
- 15 River Class Frigates
- 360 LAV 6.0 IFVs

Poland Purchases
- 96 AH-64E Apache Helicopters
- 32 AW149 Helicopters
- 138 Narew Air Defense Launchers
- 48 Patriot Air Defense Launchers
- 824 K9 Thunder 155mm Howitzers
- 152 Krab 155mm Howitzers
- 290 K239 Chunmoo 239mm MLRS
- 506 M142 HIMARS
- 122 M120 RAK 120mm Mortars
- 1000 K2 Black Panther MBTs
- 250 M1A2 Abrams MBTs
- 1000 BWP Borsuk IFVs
- 302 KTO Rosomak IFVs

Britain Purchases
- 8 Type 26 Frigates
- 4 Trident Missile Submarines
- 138 F-35B Fighter Aircraft
- 148 Challenger 3 MBTs
- 589 Ajax IFVs
- 623 Boxer IFVs
- 61 M270 MLRS
- 200 RCH-155 155mm Howitzers

Germany Purchases
- 3 Patriot Air Defense Batteries
- 20 Eurofighter Fighter Jets
- 77 Airbus H145M Attack Helicopters
- 105 Leopard 2A7A1 MBTs
- 50 SPZ Puma IFVs
- 122 Boxer IFVs
- 100 Boxer 155mm Howitzers

France Purchases
- 8 SAMP/T Air Defense Systems
- 42 Rafale Fighter Jets
- 200 Leclerc XLR MBTs
- 300 EBRC Jaguar LBTs
- 627 VBCI IFVs
- 1872 VMBR Griffon APCs
- 109 CAESAR NG 155mm Howitzers

Italy Purchases
- 10 SAMP/T NG Air Defense Systems
- 15 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 10 F-35B Fighter Jets
- 24 Eurofighter Fighter Jets
- 200 KF-51 Panther MBTs
- 150 Centauro II Tank Destroyers
- 630 VBM Freccia IFVs
- 350 Lynx IFVs

Czech Republic Purchases
- 24 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 77 Leopard 2A8 MBTs
- 239 CV90 Mark IV IFvs
- 126 Pandur II IFVs

Again, these are just SOME examples. Almost every NATO country has announced substantial spending increases and nost have made equipment purchases. This doesn't even address all of the munitions and technology that the West is investing in.

It has taken Russia 3 friggen years and the destruction of a significant portion of their Soviet stockpile, to take 20% of Ukraine, supplied with mostly obsolete western army equipment pulled out of storage, no relavent air force assets until recently and no naval assets...

In a non-nuclear environment, NATO would absolutely abuse Russia. In a world in which NATO stepped in to push Russia out of Ukraine, Putin would come to the negotiating table within hours with his tail between his legs looking for a deal. Otherwise, NATO would rain absolute he'll down on his army. Russia can't even establish air supremacy over Ukraine.

If 500 (just a fraction) 4th and 5th Generation F-35s, F-22s, F-18s, F-15s, Eurofighters, Rafales, etc showed in support of Ukraine, the war would virtually be over. The West would establish air supremacy within a week. Russia's Air Force would retreat back into the Russian interior and the war would come to a quick conclusion.

 

[Relic]

USA is expected to announce a new military aid package for Ukraine this week, valued at $275 million usd. The package is largely expected to consist of artillery shells, ammunition and ATGMs, etc.

USA State Department has also sold Ukraine $100 million usd worth of what it's calling "unspecified defense equipment and services, including vehicle refurbishment, technical assistance, training and “other related elements of logistics and program support.”

USA is also in the midst of releasing a $20 Billion usd loan to Ukraine, which it will disperse prior to the Biden Administration leaving office, in order to make sure Trump doesn't cancel it. The $20 Billion usd is USA's portion of the $50 Billion USD loan that NATO will provide Ukraine by the end of 2024.

US will send Ukraine at least $275 million in new weapons in push to bolster Kyiv before Trump

The Pentagon will send Ukraine at least $275 million in new weapons. It comes as the Biden administration rushes to do as much as it can to help Kyiv fight back against Russia in the remaining two months before President-elect Donald Trump takes office.

apnews.com

US will send Ukraine at least $275 million in new weapons in push to bolster Kyiv before Trump

U.S. officials say the Pentagon will send Ukraine at least $275 million in new weapons

www.google.com

 

[Iskander]

The Ukrainian coalition crossed the Rubicon with an ATACMS ballistic missile strike on Russian territory. Washington admitted that it had lifted the restriction on strikes on "native" Russian territory. Now it's the turn of the Tomahawks. I have no doubt that they will appear in the Ukrainian theater of military operations.
Ukraine has only one restriction left - the entry of F16s into Russian airspace and bombing of its territory.
After the Ukrainian ATACMS attack, Lavrov made a "formidable" statement: The strikes of the Ukrainian army on the Bryansk region with ATACMS missiles without the participation of the United States would have been impossible. At the same time, he noted that he could not confirm the information that the United States had made a decision on ATACMS strikes deep into Russia.

Putin turned on the reverse

Лавров обвинил США в причастности к ударам ATACMS по Брянской области

Подробнее на сайте

www.kommersant.ru

Yesterday I wrote that the situation could still change.
The situation could change dramatically.
The logic of the development of events shows that anything is possible

Here, for example, is such an option. US President-elect Donald Trump may secretly transfer nuclear weapons to Ukraine to make it very strong, security and defense expert Nicholas Drummond told the British newspaper Daily Express.

"Donald Trump may transfer nuclear weapons to Ukraine to once and for all thwart Russia and Vladimir Putin," the expert said.

Trump's victory in the election has called into question the continued funding of military support for Ukraine by the United States.

"The deal could be done very quietly, and suddenly Ukraine will become very powerful. This could be Trump's trump card. On the one hand, it would be reckless to provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons, on the other hand, it could restore the balance of peace and power in the region.

According to the expert, Trump may "exchange" the provision of nuclear weapons to Ukraine for refusing to accept the country into NATO.

Трамп может тайно передать Украине ядерное оружие

haqqin.az

Yes, Trump is unpredictable. But who said that this is only in Russia's favor?!
It is too early to bury Ukraine.

 

[SilverMachine]

Sounds like 5 of the 6 ATACMS were shot down though, and the other seemingly did fuck-all damage.

Plenty more where they came from, agreed, and there's probably a learning curve to firing them (we'd be naive to think the U.S. doesn't have guys right there on the ground assisting the Ukes though, they do, so chalking it up to Uke ineperience seems unwise). But I wouldn't hail this as some big "Russia's fucked!", seems they countered the new U.S. toys pretty effectively.

And Tomahawks? I agree that in large quantities they're probably useful at overwhelming stuff, but it's pretty ancient tech at this point, I'd figure the Rooskies are probably plenty prepared for Tomahawks.

 

[Relic]

Germany has announced the delivery of a new military aid package to Ukraine today. Per custom, Germany splits aid into two categories, planning and delivered. This aid has been delievered.

- 1 TRML-4D RADARS (IRIS-T)
- 4 Panzerhaubitze 2000 Howitzers
- 47 MRAPS
- 41,000 155mm Artillery Shells
- MARDER Ammunition
- 7 M109 Howitzer Tubes
- 120 Vector Recon Drones
- 12 Hornert XR Recon Drones
- 60 Golden Eagle Recon Drones
- 2 VT-4 Rochen Recon Drones
- 100 RQ-35 Heidrun Recon Drones
- 139 Songbird Recon Drones
- 2 BEAVER Bridge-laying Tanks
- 3 WISENT-1 Mine Clearing Tanks
- 3 Mine Clearing Ploughs
- 8 Air Assault Caracal
- 20 Border Protection Vehicles
- 6 M1070 OSHKOSH Transporters
- 8,000 40mm Ammunition Rounds
- 74,000 338 Ammunition Rounds
- 100,000 Small Ammunition Rounds
- 55,000 Tourniquets
- 100,000 Chest Seals

Military support for Ukraine | Federal Government

War in Ukraine: This list provides an overview of Germany’s lethal and non-lethal military support for Ukraine.

www.bundesregierung.de

 

[Relic]

USA announced a new military aid package for Ukraine today, valued at $275 million usd. The contents of the package are as follows:

- GMLRS / ATACMS (HIMARS)
- 155mm Artillery Shells
- 105mm Artillery Shells
- 60mm Mortar Rounds
- 81mm Mortar Rounds
- Undisclosed UAVs
- TOW Missiles
- Javelin Anti-Armor Systems
- AT-4 Anti-Armor Rockets
- Small Arms
- Small Arms Ammunition
- Demolitions Equipment and Munitions
- Protection Equipment
- Spare Parts, Maintenance and Transportation

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine

The Defense Department announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs.

www.defense.gov

 

[Soldier30]

Combat use of Russian Kh-101 cruise missiles in Ukraine on November 17. The video shows Kh-101 cruise missile strikes on the Kremenchug hydroelectric power station, on the underwater part of the station and the consequences of the strike on the hydroelectric power station. At the end of the video there is an insert, strikes of Russian Kh-101 missiles on November 17, on the PS 330/110 electrical substation in the city of Rivne.
The Kh-101 missile has a range of up to 5,500 km, and a 400 kg warhead. Some versions of the Kh-101 missiles have an 800 kg warhead, the warhead of the missile was recently increased by reducing the fuel tank. The Kh-102 missile version can be equipped with a 250-kiloton nuclear warhead.
According to media reports, the damage to the Kremenchug hydroelectric power station in Ukraine is serious, including critical disruption of the hydro turbines, destruction of the shandor and local damage to the dam.

 

[blackjack]

Can't figure out if you are trolling or asking legitimate questions, but I'll bite on your questions regarding the West's military ramp up. Here are just SOME examples of the more than $1.5 Trillion usd worth of new weapons platforms that the West has ordered recently.

USA
- 2 Gerald Ford Class ACCs
- 2 America Class ASSs
- 10 Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers
- 3 Zumwalt Class Destroyers
- 10 Virginia Class Attack Submarines
- 104 F-15EX Eagle II Fighter Jets
- 63 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 204 F-35C Fighter Jets
- 76 F-18 Super Hornet Fighter Jets
- 200 M109A7 155mm Howitzers
- 504 M10 Booker LBTs
- 300 DVHA1 Stryker APCs
- 300 Bradley A4 IFVs
- 240 ACV IFVs
- 16,901 JLTVs

Canada Purchases
- 88 F-35s Fighter Jets
- 15 River Class Frigates
- 360 LAV 6.0 IFVs

Poland Purchases
- 96 AH-64E Apache Helicopters
- 32 AW149 Helicopters
- 138 Narew Air Defense Launchers
- 48 Patriot Air Defense Launchers
- 824 K9 Thunder 155mm Howitzers
- 152 Krab 155mm Howitzers
- 290 K239 Chunmoo 239mm MLRS
- 506 M142 HIMARS
- 122 M120 RAK 120mm Mortars
- 1000 K2 Black Panther MBTs
- 250 M1A2 Abrams MBTs
- 1000 BWP Borsuk IFVs
- 302 KTO Rosomak IFVs

Britain Purchases
- 8 Type 26 Frigates
- 4 Trident Missile Submarines
- 138 F-35B Fighter Aircraft
- 148 Challenger 3 MBTs
- 589 Ajax IFVs
- 623 Boxer IFVs
- 61 M270 MLRS
- 200 RCH-155 155mm Howitzers

Germany Purchases
- 3 Patriot Air Defense Batteries
- 20 Eurofighter Fighter Jets
- 77 Airbus H145M Attack Helicopters
- 105 Leopard 2A7A1 MBTs
- 50 SPZ Puma IFVs
- 122 Boxer IFVs
- 100 Boxer 155mm Howitzers

France Purchases
- 8 SAMP/T Air Defense Systems
- 42 Rafale Fighter Jets
- 200 Leclerc XLR MBTs
- 300 EBRC Jaguar LBTs
- 627 VBCI IFVs
- 1872 VMBR Griffon APCs
- 109 CAESAR NG 155mm Howitzers

Italy Purchases
- 10 SAMP/T NG Air Defense Systems
- 15 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 10 F-35B Fighter Jets
- 24 Eurofighter Fighter Jets
- 200 KF-51 Panther MBTs
- 150 Centauro II Tank Destroyers
- 630 VBM Freccia IFVs
- 350 Lynx IFVs

Czech Republic Purchases
- 24 F-35A Fighter Jets
- 77 Leopard 2A8 MBTs
- 239 CV90 Mark IV IFvs
- 126 Pandur II IFVs

Again, these are just SOME examples. Almost every NATO country has announced substantial spending increases and nost have made equipment purchases. This doesn't even address all of the munitions and technology that the West is investing in.

Before you go accuse another person that they are trolling try to directly answer their questions or arguements which you have failed repeatedly to do. You gave me contracts, but there is an issue with that. When were those contracts signed and when are the full deliveries of those contracts suppose to take place?
Example: Poland signs a contract for 250 M1a2s on April 5, 2022 the full delivery is somewhere in 2025-2026 with assumptions there are no delays. Do you know how many tanks Russia gets a month to get to 32-44 months? I will do some math here with all the equipment than we can make comparisons. If I am wrong than please prove it to me that I am wrong.

Your contract numbers for land force, I will get to the sea and airforce stuff a little later after this.

Howitzers: 1,585
MBTs: 2,430(I added the centauro tanks here)
APCs: 2,112
IFVs: 6,007(added the booker LBTs here)
MLRS: 567(I am sure the US made additional orders of HIMARS for themselves care to add that later here?)

Since the information you provided to me was inadequate you have homework or maybe a school project with other users here that can assist you for sharing the same ideals.

-When were these contracts made?
-are they 1 year, 2 year, 5 year, 10 year or 20 year contracts?
-Are there any delays in production like increase in energy cost issues?
-When these orders were made, were any of them sent to ukraine or this came from their existing stockpile?(Example: US gets 300 strykers and they sent some of those to ukraine where lancets on lostarmour.ru record their destruction)
-Are these actual written contracts or what they want to get?

The Russians keep it simple and stupid for their audience like this.
-https://pikabu.ru/story/popyitka_rasschitat_skolko_v_rossii_proizvoditsya_voennoy_tekhnikitankov__vyivodyi_9756245?ysclid=m3q0hy48qv738997079
997 tanks got produced in 9 months(they are supposedly opening 2 more tank plants later) So basically 2 in a half years Russia would already have all the MBT contracts of NATO and I am very sure some of those MBT deliveries would take more than 2 in a half years. This one is more up to date in 2024 than the 2023 graph below.

-APCs Russia can meet the NATO requirement in 22 months
-IFVs I dont see on the list https://en.defence-ua.com/industrie...2025_and_scale_up_bmp_3_production-11054.html
-3000 IFVs a year for production means Russia can meet NATO's requirement in 2 years.
-Dont see tornado MLRS systems on list and only thing mentioned was several times its production.

There are multiple disadvantages NATO has to deal with.
1. the painfully obvious of where are the western equivalent deliveries of Ka-52s Mi-35s and M-28s? Russians upload a fuck load of LMUR strike footages of the war on ukrainian armored vehicles.
2.Missile advantage is on Russia's side with short- and long-range kamikaze drones.
3. Based on experience Russians have taken countermeasures with cages, ERA layouts that make it difficult for drones to strike, EW systems. NATO has not shown AFAIK to give Ukraine a helping hand on countermeasures which I would assume they would do as bad as Ukraine entering this conflict. Only improvement I saw was future upgrades for Strykers to have EW systems and 20 kilowatt lasers.
4.Claims of Russia having longer range strike howitzers and MLRS systems.
5. Russia has alot of ongoing projects of newer and better tanks, MLRS systems, Howitzers, and specialized armoured vehicles like the Derivatsya 57mm.

Elaborate more on the technology part since I do know Russia has alot of projects. Russia has enough missiles and drones to deal with ships and aircraft bases which is why NATO will be forced into a ground war with Russia anyways and I have not even added China into the equation yet.

It has taken Russia 3 friggen years and the destruction of a significant portion of their Soviet stockpile, to take 20% of Ukraine, supplied with mostly obsolete western army equipment pulled out of storage, no relavent air force assets until recently and no naval assets...

Just 2 in half years, ohh come on I know some wars that took the U.S. a little bit far longer lol. And I assure you what Russia destroyed is far greater than what the US has destroyed in the middle east that its not even comparable. Naval assets? They do have quite a lot of submarines that carry quite a lot of missiles that are more on the advanced sophisticated side where 1 missile can do the trick for 1 Naval target.

In a non-nuclear environment, NATO would absolutely abuse Russia. In a world in which NATO stepped in to push Russia out of Ukraine, Putin would come to the negotiating table within hours with his tail between his legs looking for a deal. Otherwise, NATO would rain absolute he'll down on his army. Russia can't even establish air supremacy over Ukraine.

Russia alone has more manpower, artillery fire and equipment than Europe does. The US has a shitload of active duty troops and firepower they can bring along, but the major problem to that is they have to cross a large body of sea which is time consuming with whatever available manpower that offers which will get targetted by coastal and aerial BMS, or cruise missiles/ scramjet missiles.
Let's just for arguments sake say somehow Europe does beat the Russians back with less manpower, equipment and firepower. Do you think the Chinese would want NATO completely surrounding them since they know they are as hated as the Russians are by the west?

If 500 (just a fraction) 4th and 5th Generation F-35s, F-22s, F-18s, F-15s, Eurofighters, Rafales, etc showed in support of Ukraine, the war would virtually be over. The West would establish air supremacy within a week. Russia's Air Force would retreat back into the Russian interior and the war would come to a quick conclusion.

I think everyone in this forum saw how invincible those F-35s were when they blew up in Israel. The Russians have enough missiles and drones with better precision and countermeasures to blow up air bases as far as those aircrafts combat ranges can take them from Russia. The Russians have started photonic integrated circuits production 2 weeks ago meaning in some coming years the Russians will be utilizing photonic radars with miniature airbreathing engines that would make 4th gen aircrafts blow up 5th gens depending how much missiles they can carry for each 5th gen aircraft targeted and this can get combined with modernized S-400, S-350, modernized S-300s S-500, S-550 or A-235 missiles systems assuming photonic radars are being developed for these systems as well. Su-75s and Su-70s can serve as cheap stealth air to air missile UAV carriers for the Su-57 since radars like photonic radars in the millimeter wave can track 100s of targets. And if worse comes to worse Russia can share all their technology with China in a major war and based on their electronics and missile production I say good luck facing something that has better production, enough manpower, alot of satellites and received a technological leap from the Russians.

You can further elaborate with me if you want?

 

[SilverMachine]

No F-35s were lost in Israel, which makes every other stat you cite here, in past, or in future pretty damn suspect.

And I'm even with you on the Russian air force not getting the credit it deserves overall, they have some formidable stuff, much moreso than China. But man, talk about a self-own.

 

[blackjack]

No F-35s were lost in Israel, which makes every other stat you cite here, in past, or in future pretty damn suspect.

And I'm even with you on the Russian air force not getting the credit it deserves overall, they have some formidable stuff, much moreso than China. But man, talk about a self-own.

Sorry that the Iranians destroyed the thought of what is considered superman in this forum.

Say for example missiles have hit the Kaan in Turkey, I assure you the government and media would try to hide it if they had a considerable amount of those aircrafts like any country would if they had 5th gens.

 

[legolas4444]

biden and his team are trying to start a big war before he leaves

 

[Relic]

More news regarding Western economic support for Ukraine .

Joe Biden's American Government will forgive $4.7 Billion usd in macroeconomic loans for Ukraine. The loans were part of $9.4 Billion usd in loans that USA issued to Ukraine as part of the spring supplemental aid package for Ukraine. Up to 50% of the loan was forgiveable per the terms of the agreement and Biden's government will forgive the maximum amount, creating increased financial flexibility for the Ukrainian Government.

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-administrations-moves-forgive-47-billion-loans-ukraine-2024-11-20/

Meanwhile, Denmark has committed $2.3 Billion usd worth if military support for Ukraine in 2025. The aid will consist of armor, small arms, technology and training for the Ukrainian military.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1859204149092495612