India Coffee House

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

Change of pace.....Up close look at mango juice production in India:

I will restart (bit later) where I left off the larger dialogue with you @Blackbeardsgoldfish ..... bit busy again lately heh.

Did not know that India had that large a Mango production, but it's interesting! Reminds me of an internship I did a few years back, at a small company that produced a variety of teas and juices of their own design. Also a strongly plant based operation, but still quite small while I was there, around a thousand bottles a day was the upper production limit I think. But they sold those bottles at a hefty price, and the market they were cornering is rather underdeveloped around there.

Eventually we'll get back to those other topics, don't know if you and @Joe Shearer and others still want to chime in

 

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

Total depraved lost causes rotting in hell is not good enough.

They need send off on Earth here....a tenure in a prison, with whole prison population knowing what he did....and guards looking other way.

Lesser criminals mete out the proper justice (over long enough time) to these kinds of people more than anyone else can (I am told).

Don't know if you or members want to elaborate on that?
Because I had some thoughts on the viability of prison as a punishment for cases like these, though my examples were Josef Fritzl and Peter Scully.

 

[Nilgiri]

Don't know if you or members want to elaborate on that?
Because I had some thoughts on the viability of prison as a punishment for cases like these, though my examples were Josef Fritzl and Peter Scully.

It was just my visceral reaction (from cold recesses of my mind) to extreme depraved type that is able to do that kind of thing in fog of war.

They are lowest of low and dont survive long (without ample isolated protection from prison guards) due to honour code that exists among the more generic hardened criminals in Gen pop. Child rapists are the lowest of low to them.

Sad as this episode was (and the perp not facing justice any time soon if at all), it also makes me think of what goes on that does not get brought to light (this case by the own perps deranged depravity of the extreme).

 

[suryakiran]

@suryakiran @Milspec

Need you now that my homework is at least 35 to 40% done, for the simulation exercise based on ORBAT.

sure. what would you need me to do?

 

[Nilgiri]

Brought a smile to my face just now hehe:

 

[Joe Shearer]

Brought a smile to my face just now hehe:

Lovely way to start the morning.

 

[Paro]

.

He's wrong on the history. but rest is watchable.

 

[Nilgiri]

.

He's wrong on the history. but rest is watchable.

His conclusions are quite sound.

His details regarding the loan model are spot on as to why SL suffers from the Chinese one particularly.

I have seen Chinese posters repeatedly bring up SL total loan origins (and say hey look China only represents 10% or whatever)....but with no context given on the conditions of the loans (interest, collateral, liquidity etc) that vary greatly (between say western lenders and China)... that ramp up servicing pressure (esp compared to how large infra structures mature and give returns).

Which part of the history he brings up was wrong btw? Just curious what your take on it is.

 

[Paro]

Thoughts on the Deoghar Ropeway Accident & Helicopter Rescue

One of the pioneers of vertical lift — Igor Sikorsky — once said: “If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your li…

kaypius.com

 

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

It was just my visceral reaction (from cold recesses of my mind) to extreme depraved type that is able to do that kind of thing in fog of war.

They are lowest of low and dont survive long (without ample isolated protection from prison guards) due to honour code that exists among the more generic hardened criminals in Gen pop. Child rapists are the lowest of low to them.

Sad as this episode was (and the perp not facing justice any time soon if at all), it also makes me think of what goes on that does not get brought to light (this case by the own perps deranged depravity of the extreme).

That we're seeing crimes like this so early on in the war is something that really makes me think about the quality of the soldiers employed by Russia here. Another thing is the punishment they give out, because if I recall correctly the perpetrator has been detained? If not, please let me know!

A prison sentence for this crime also looks too mild to me. A hundred years ago you'd have been tried and executed before the sun had set when you did this, but nowadays it requires an investigation?
Is prison really the way to go in punishing a soldier who did that, no matter what different verdict the prisoners codex will give?

 

[TR_123456]

Is prison really the way to go in punishing a soldier who did that, no matter what different verdict the prisoners codex will give?

No but killing him is freedom for him.
He should suffer,treated like the inhuman he is.

 

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

No but killing him is freedom for him.
He should suffer,treated like the inhuman he is.

Agree with you here, only that this goes for child rapists of all sorts. Not just those that do it in war.

 

[TR_123456]

Agree with you here, only that this goes for child rapists of all sorts. Not just those that do it in war.

Of course,all of them.

 

[Nilgiri]

That we're seeing crimes like this so early on in the war is something that really makes me think about the quality of the soldiers employed by Russia here. Another thing is the punishment they give out, because if I recall correctly the perpetrator has been detained? If not, please let me know!

A prison sentence for this crime also looks too mild to me. A hundred years ago you'd have been tried and executed before the sun had set when you did this, but nowadays it requires an investigation?
Is prison really the way to go in punishing a soldier who did that, no matter what different verdict the prisoners codex will give?

Wasn't following the news much, but you are right, this was so blatant he got arrested. I guess he faces court martial at some point.

I don't think a (life time) prison sentence is enough for this kind of heinous thing....but even death is short justice.

Some stuff is just so depraved there is just no way to mete out justice on earth, just have to do the best you can protecting society from this kind of person once they make themselves known....and let them face the extended tribulation in prison.

BTW, I am overall against (esp peace time) Capital punishment as I think it gets misapplied in sufficient amount of cases (even the rare case of complete innocents, which is really terrible thing to have no matter how rare) and creates precedent that its ok for the state to take life as retribution. Rather have zero cases absolutely of innocent (or bad application on guilty) since life was not bequeathed by the state in the first place for it to take away (and get wrong in doing so X% of the time).

Keeping 1000's of guilty alive (while punishing them and protecting rest of society) till their own end comes about...to prevent even one innocent from being killed (most grievously and unfairly) is the proper way IMO for the functional state with a robust legal system.

Folks often make the argument that room + board costs the state money for such criminals that dont deserve to live. But most of the time with death penalty, convicts have a fairly expensive legal process to go through their appeals (given the absolute severity of execution they are sentenced to)...all paid for by the state. It is overall more expensive to execute a convict than simply close the case with life imprisonment....in well established + principled legal systems.

Extraordinary circumstance (non-functioning state and thus no option to sustainably detain a criminal) there is a valid reason there (to execute to protect others) in many cases to take human life..... just like self defence (which applies to war as well.)

 

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

Wasn't following the news much, but you are right, this was so blatant he got arrested. I guess he faces court martial at some point.

I don't think a (life time) prison sentence is enough for this kind of heinous thing....but even death is short justice.

Some stuff is just so depraved there is just no way to mete out justice on earth, just have to do the best you can protecting society from this kind of person once they make themselves known....and let them face the extended tribulation in prison.

BTW, I am overall against (esp peace time) Capital punishment as I think it gets misapplied in sufficient amount of cases (even the rare case of complete innocents, which is really terrible thing to have no matter how rare) and creates precedent that its ok for the state to take life as retribution. Rather have zero cases absolutely of innocent (or bad application on guilty) since life was not bequeathed by the state in the first place for it to take away (and get wrong in doing so X% of the time).

Keeping 1000's of guilty alive (while punishing them and protecting rest of society) till their own end comes about...to prevent even one innocent from being killed (most grievously and unfairly) is the proper way IMO for the functional state with a robust legal system.

Folks often make the argument that room + board costs the state money for such criminals that dont deserve to live. But most of the time with death penalty, convicts have a fairly expensive legal process to go through their appeals (given the absolute severity of execution they are sentenced to)...all paid for by the state. It is overall more expensive to execute a convict than simply close the case with life imprisonment....in well established + principled legal systems.

Extraordinary circumstance (non-functioning state and thus no option to sustainably detain a criminal) there is a valid reason there (to execute to protect others) in many cases to take human life..... just like self defence (which applies to war as well.)

What I'm thinking here is the crime of rape itself is something that no legal system should or can tolerate. One doesn't rape out of a need for survival or self-defense, one doesn't rape because of hunger, one doesn't rape because it's perceived as morally right. Rape is something that should be punished as a crime with no respectable or defendable motivation. It's done inherently out of malice, and therefore the perpetrator needs to be punished in a way that doesn't allow them to ever rape again.

In this sense, castration seems like a punishment that should be given to rapists, as well as a sort of brand marking that lets everyone know what they did, thinking along the lines of Inglorious Basterds here. That alongside the prison sentence and whatever will happen with them once inside, and at their fellow prisoners mercy.

Because what can a woman, or a child in the context of the conversation here, do to their rapist? Little outside of castration on their own accord, and this would be considered vigilante justice, something no legal system and state like to see.

And for the extreme cases that happen... there I think the victim should decide what needs to happen with the perpetrator. Those cases that genuinely define a legal codex and common understanding of justice, thats something that cannot be judged accordingly by a third party.

 

[Nilgiri]

What I'm thinking here is the crime of rape itself is something that no legal system should or can tolerate. One doesn't rape out of a need for survival or self-defense, one doesn't rape because of hunger, one doesn't rape because it's perceived as morally right. Rape is something that should be punished as a crime with no respectable or defendable motivation. It's done inherently out of malice, and therefore the perpetrator needs to be punished in a way that doesn't allow them to ever rape again.

In this sense, castration seems like a punishment that should be given to rapists, as well as a sort of brand marking that lets everyone know what they did, thinking along the lines of Inglorious Basterds here. That alongside the prison sentence and whatever will happen with them once inside, and at their fellow prisoners mercy.

Because what can a woman, or a child in the context of the conversation here, do to their rapist? Little outside of castration on their own accord, and this would be considered vigilante justice, something no legal system and state like to see.

And for the extreme cases that happen... there I think the victim should decide what needs to happen with the perpetrator. Those cases that genuinely define a legal codex and common understanding of justice, thats something that cannot be judged accordingly by a third party.

I sympathise with much of what you say. But allowing exceptions causes slippery slope problem of "what next" (for exceptions to how legal process deals with crime and criminals). Making specific examples out of X means you start to then pressure other tiers of Y and Z like domino chain and you can drift toward serious issues (both legal and moral). How do we objectively determine where to draw the line?

"Inherently out of malice", is exactly why other criminals inside prison consider these specific types deserving special treatment past what everyone else is getting.

 

[Blackbeardsgoldfish]

I sympathise with much of what you say. But allowing exceptions causes slippery slope problem of "what next" (for exceptions to how legal process deals with crime and criminals). Making specific examples out of X means you start to then pressure other tiers of Y and Z like domino chain and you can drift toward serious issues (both legal and moral). How do we objectively determine where to draw the line?

"Inherently out of malice", is exactly why other criminals inside prison consider these specific types deserving special treatment past what everyone else is getting.

Yeah, you're right. And I worded something a bit wrong earlier, by castration I was thinking of the historical example of eunuchs, not castration as in dogs, sorry for that, English not being my first language and whatnot.

The understanding of the "extreme case" that I hold here is shaped by an austrian case that came to light in 2008, where Josef Fritzl was discovered to have held his own daughter captive in a cellar for 24 years, used her as a sex slave and fathered multiple children with her. While I was to young to really remember how this impacted the country back then, it remains a taboo topic to this day, officially and in private conversations. From what I know, there were serious considerations back then about reintroducing the death penalty for this singular case, if a national referendum would call for it. They didn't hold one, but it would probably have been decided that he'd be sentenced to death.
That's what I consider to be an extreme case, and if you want to look it up please do so at your own discretion, I don't recommend just doing so out of naïve curiosity.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yeah, you're right. And I worded something a bit wrong earlier, by castration I was thinking of the historical example of eunuchs, not castration as in dogs, sorry for that, English not being my first language and whatnot.

The understanding of the "extreme case" that I hold here is shaped by an austrian case that came to light in 2008, where Josef Fritzl was discovered to have held his own daughter captive in a cellar for 24 years, used her as a sex slave and fathered multiple children with her. While I was to young to really remember how this impacted the country back then, it remains a taboo topic to this day, officially and in private conversations. From what I know, there were serious considerations back then about reintroducing the death penalty for this singular case, if a national referendum would call for it. They didn't hold one, but it would probably have been decided that he'd be sentenced to death.
That's what I consider to be an extreme case, and if you want to look it up please do so at your own discretion, I don't recommend just doing so out of naïve curiosity.

Oh I remember that when it hit the news. Was extremely disturbing to say the least. Some years later there was a similar story out in the boonies in Australia somewhere iirc.

I leave these things to the legal experts and judges....they are very abhorrent to sift through and contemplate what is proper justice etc.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515716787215732744

 

[Paro]

I think we’ll be going for American helicopters to match mi17 orders.