India Coffee House

[Joe Shearer]

I understand why folks like Joe explore depths of atlantis up close to maybe remember things by and play sports with all that lurk in parts of it..

Noted. Very seriously.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Rajaraja Chola @Milspec @suryakiran et al.

Surely IK caesar drama + DHA degeneracy wars.... is good (karmic) note to end things on (at clown forum), and just observe with popcorn from time to time as required/wanted?

The forum administration there is fully involved in persistent false flag multi-accounting in case you guys dont know.

just one (out of many) recent example: halfmoon-suvarna-akshay-<insert name>

Worst part is seeing whomever this "drjekyll" and "wood" ppl are.... fall for that stuff and play right into it.

Even when the place was "better"...they indulged this stuff (I brought it up with the webby there who would selectively consider A but not B etc.... and in hindsight its very clear he is part of its cultivation, all to be more "en vogue" with twitter trolling quantity et al).

So why waste time there and give them patronage knowing this is their model/agenda?...and now a reality check karma arrives where it matters yet again?

Last word drama is worth it? Some vice-addiction?

I understand why folks like Joe explore depths of atlantis up close to maybe remember things by and play sports with all that lurk in parts of it.... but there is no sane reason I can figure out for most of rest of you (but possibly I dont know you well enough either).

Fellow asserted ummah bros (Turks , Indonesians) left cold turkey and en masse (they finally sniffed what was up, decided enough is enough and just left to do something far better here)....yet some bollywood brigade are stuck there like an opium stench...no matter the crap and abuse thrown their way (and many of you surely know much more thats happened).

Yet you and many others persist there....

IMO, Best to leave and tell others like you why. .... you are just propping up a smashed relic and the foul gunk it contained all along.

Disturbing. Why not let adversary simply realise its aukat (which is proceeding swimmingly if you let it) itself?

You staunchly decide to remain part of the problem (with them and with us).... rather than just focus on solutions for us.

My problem is with the bhakts. Even though so many of those setting up Strategic Forum were well known to me, even though I was at a time privy to some sensitive discussions there, I cannot bring myself to participate there, and never could, from the outset, because they had too many Sanghis among them.

It is simply not possible for us to co-exist, Sanghis and I.

On PDF, I am very sure no Sanghi will last; false flaggers are certainly a problem, but they are nuisances, not show-stoppers like the Sanghi is.

As long as we are with @Rajaraja Chola @Milspec @suryakiran, or @Paro, or people like them, I have no problems. Even @crixus is OK. But there are others whom I don't want to be in conversation with, or having anything to do with.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

@Rajaraja Chola @Milspec @suryakiran et al.

Surely IK caesar drama + DHA degeneracy wars.... is good (karmic) note to end things on (at clown forum), and just observe with popcorn from time to time as required/wanted?

The forum administration there is fully involved in persistent false flag multi-accounting in case you guys dont know.

just one (out of many) recent example: halfmoon-suvarna-akshay-<insert name>

Worst part is seeing whomever this "drjekyll" and "wood" ppl are.... fall for that stuff and play right into it.

Even when the place was "better"...they indulged this stuff (I brought it up with the webby there who would selectively consider A but not B etc.... and in hindsight its very clear he is part of its cultivation, all to be more "en vogue" with twitter trolling quantity et al).

So why waste time there and give them patronage knowing this is their model/agenda?...and now a reality check karma arrives where it matters yet again?

Last word drama is worth it? Some vice-addiction?

I understand why folks like Joe explore depths of atlantis up close to maybe remember things by and play sports with all that lurk in parts of it.... but there is no sane reason I can figure out for most of rest of you (but possibly I dont know you well enough either).

Fellow asserted ummah bros (Turks , Indonesians) left cold turkey and en masse (they finally sniffed what was up, decided enough is enough and just left to do something far better here)....yet some bollywood brigade are stuck there like an opium stench...no matter the crap and abuse thrown their way (and many of you surely know much more thats happened).

Yet you and many others persist there....

IMO, Best to leave and tell others like you why. .... you are just propping up a smashed relic and the foul gunk it contained all along.

Disturbing. Why not let adversary simply realise its aukat (which is proceeding swimmingly if you let it) itself?

You staunchly decide to remain part of the problem (with them and with us).... rather than just focus on solutions for us.

After seeing the comments on PDF, I am actually very convinced, India, her democracy and people are far far ahead in terms of political maturity and far sightedness. With respect of @Joe Shearer comments on "WhatsApp" wingers, even they are far far better compared to the supporters of PTI sharing and talking in Pakistan.

The Pakistani law is pretty clear. Once an No Confidence motion is accepted, the assembly cannot be dissolved without a vote. Now they cited some Article 6 of consititution regarding Traitors, claimed opposition as Traitors, without proving in a court of law and proceeded to nullify the vote. Some are claiming this as Masterstroke (Compare this to BJP supporters called it when Modi cancelled the farm laws and called it as Masterstroke and I feel India is waaaaay better) as courts cannot indulge in speaker ruling of a blatant illegality.

To top it off, IK has made US the enemy out of it with a letter which he claims US has told NO confidence vote should go through. And the letter is a account of "my friend of my friend of a friend said this". A simple US ban on trade is enough for Pakistan to default. 80% of it's exports.are to west.

I think this clown has been handled properly by India, giving him very very less attention and response and have judged him.properly.

 

[Nilgiri]

My problem is with the bhakts. Even though so many of those setting up Strategic Forum were well known to me, even though I was at a time privy to some sensitive discussions there, I cannot bring myself to participate there, and never could, from the outset, because they had too many Sanghis among them.

It is simply not possible for us to co-exist, Sanghis and I.

On PDF, I am very sure no Sanghi will last; false flaggers are certainly a problem, but they are nuisances, not show-stoppers like the Sanghi is.

As long as we are with @Rajaraja Chola @Milspec @suryakiran, or @Paro, or people like them, I have no problems. Even @crixus is OK. But there are others whom I don't want to be in conversation with, or having anything to do with.

I understand. It is more directed to some others that may not have full picture of whats going on.

It is everyone own decision in end how to spend free time online....but I just wanted to share my thoughts on what I see going on.

Bhakt-mob in clownforum is just one of many mobs (some far worse than the Bhakts) deliberately cultivated there....and have become a bulk symbiotic ecosystem.

It is antithetical to what a forum should be....especially one that tried achieve (and in many measures succeeded in the past) reputation of not being echo chamber (unlike others).

Imagine the higher ups of a place creating these multi-account spamsters just to generate (wretched) traffic and post quantity....and at same time throwing + driving away rooted rational groups like Turks and Indonesians.

All the while playing some cheap word game its the exact opposite....ringing hollower each passing day.

Where this kind of thinking comes from is disturbing one....likely similar kind would have come from Nazi Germany if it was allowed to survive (in whatever fashion post war) and endure and have its downstream powerful re-invent/justify the past to their current needs and hold their population hostage to it....and then claim to be subject-experts and moral-denizens on the atrocities/depravities of the current time involving others.

It's effects are not limited to just a forum. Many a good person from Pakistan (incl several I call friends) have sounded this in all manner of ways indicating special severity in their powerful that call the shots.

i.e that a specific delusional hypocrisy has crept in and planted deeply among them.... like seen nowhere else in the region or world (as bad as mobs and power are everywhere). The results bear out increasingly.

You have to come clean and be fundamentally principled (on the clear abuse of your power) when you carry power.

Set a bad example at the highest level, everything else mirrors it in enough intensity and the whole thing eventually stagnates. Bhakts (as bad as they are) are nowhere near approaching even the horizon of this kind of thing.

You will need to do the hypothetical extrapolations (of heavy bhakts-first imprint kind) on Indian constitution framing (from the get go, a bhakt objective resolution to decide what a Hindu is and isnt), the usurpation of even that, the life cost by (again extrapolated to its size) civil war on India.... the results and denials +delusions constructed, reinforced and impacted on the (power complex) mind....over a time period of not just recent 10 years but a full 70+....to even begin to try to understand the difference involved IMO.

Not really stuff I want to go into, but that forum's "management" power-complex is just one small slice of all of that bearing down true to its form.

I dont see any other forum (as echo chamber as they can be) "management" deliberately doing the halfmoon-suvarna-akshay hate-spam theatrics (of which there are several more examples).

 

[Nilgiri]

Noted. Very seriously.

The few wise members interaction (with you) are followed fondly by me when I do search them out.

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from (and friendships you have with good people there)....this is more for others to take stock of and make a call on if they want, I just do not see the same reasons existing for them, but I could be wrong.

 

[Joe Shearer]

After seeing the comments on PDF, I am actually very convinced, India, her democracy and people are far far ahead in terms of political maturity and far sightedness. With respect of @Joe Shearer comments on "WhatsApp" wingers, even they are far far better compared to the supporters of PTI sharing and talking in Pakistan.

The Pakistani law is pretty clear. Once an No Confidence motion is accepted, the assembly cannot be dissolved without a vote. Now they cited some Article 6 of consititution regarding Traitors, claimed opposition as Traitors, without proving in a court of law and proceeded to nullify the vote. Some are claiming this as Masterstroke (Compare this to BJP supporters called it when Modi cancelled the farm laws and called it as Masterstroke and I feel India is waaaaay better) as courts cannot indulge in speaker ruling of a blatant illegality.

To top it off, IK has made US the enemy out of it with a letter which he claims US has told NO confidence vote should go through. And the letter is a account of "my friend of my friend of a friend said this". A simple US ban on trade is enough for Pakistan to default. 80% of it's exports.are to west.

I think this clown has been handled properly by India, giving him very very less attention and response and have judged him.properly.

What is happening in Pakistan now is pathetic. I feel very, very sorry for the Pakistanis, and for those who are so confused about what to do in this situation. Even at the worst of times, we have (not yet) faced such a situation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The few wise members interaction (with you) are followed fondly by me when I do search them out.

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from (and friendships you have with good people there)....this is more for others to take stock of and make a call on if they want, I just do not see the same reasons existing for them, but I could be wrong.

I think you got me wrong.

My stand is not that it is better over there, but that it is a known territory and a clearly demarcated territory. Over here, I have already been confronted twice. Are there no confrontations there? Of course there are, both from green extremists and from saffron extremists. So what is the point I am trying to make? It is simply this: nobody checks the green lunatic fringe, fair enough; but there is somebody to check the saffron lunatic fringe. Over here, the green lunatic fringe can clearly be checked; what about the saffron?

You have already seen how things go on insaniyat. I don't have to point to mysterious paradises to be won at great cost with great sacrifice. Every single member there is there by mutual choice, not only because he, or she, wants to be there, but also because everyone else, as far as can be managed, is agreeable. Even for those who have a tendency to glorify the lunacy that has gripped us as a company, there is some restraint, there is some dismissal of extreme statements under the guise of laughter.

What I hope to see is not accidental, not unplanned, not happenstance. When Sumanta Tewari, whom I deeply admired and respected, stepped out of line in his belabouring of Nehru, and of several others, and his taking up a very complicated position that, in effect, amounted to support of the Sanghi position, he had to leave.

I am not asking for Riyasat e Madina over here. I am asking that the same atmosphere be fostered - success is another matter - so that we have a chance to build on a larger scale what already exists, and what is already a matter of your own daily experience. If it is a safe haven for extremists, do say so, right here, where there is nothing for me to take shelter behind.

 

[Nilgiri]

After seeing the comments on PDF, I am actually very convinced, India, her democracy and people are far far ahead in terms of political maturity and far sightedness. With respect of @Joe Shearer comments on "WhatsApp" wingers, even they are far far better compared to the supporters of PTI sharing and talking in Pakistan.

The Pakistani law is pretty clear. Once an No Confidence motion is accepted, the assembly cannot be dissolved without a vote. Now they cited some Article 6 of consititution regarding Traitors, claimed opposition as Traitors, without proving in a court of law and proceeded to nullify the vote. Some are claiming this as Masterstroke (Compare this to BJP supporters called it when Modi cancelled the farm laws and called it as Masterstroke and I feel India is waaaaay better) as courts cannot indulge in speaker ruling of a blatant illegality.

To top it off, IK has made US the enemy out of it with a letter which he claims US has told NO confidence vote should go through. And the letter is a account of "my friend of my friend of a friend said this". A simple US ban on trade is enough for Pakistan to default. 80% of it's exports.are to west.

I think this clown has been handled properly by India, giving him very very less attention and response and have judged him.properly.

Nah bro, several of the bhakt whatsapp groups are toxic as worst of PDF/youthia/pawari/TLP/islamist mob types.

I dont know how much of that stuff goes on in general in whatsapp, one sample of it put me off real bad.

My mom was in some group and she kept passing on stuff to me asking is this true?... and one was a bhakt conspiracy theory I demolished right away because it was so dumb by basic numbers....not realising that I would be hounded later for doing so by another member (family friend) of that group....afraid that I was being "converted" or some such nonsense.

I distanced myself from that BS in general now and I hate all forms of it that show up wherever else....you just see other sides to people that you didnt want to. This online stuff is not that conducive to lot of people mentality, vice and emotion.

But the thing is a forum is more structured place that should have best fair decorum consistently applied....if it indeed is a forum.

Whatsapp groups are by design something of echo chamber structure that can go foul real quick.... people just join what they want to hear etc.

If a forum is becoming like whatsapp drama BS, theres a big problem basically....and its likely a deep underlying one because running a forum fairly is as common sense as it gets.

As for rest of your post, I broadly agree...but thats just downstream stuff now in Pakistan....it is long domino chain to get into.

 

[Nilgiri]

I think you got me wrong.

My stand is not that it is better over there, but that it is a known territory and a clearly demarcated territory. Over here, I have already been confronted twice. Are there no confrontations there? Of course there are, both from green extremists and from saffron extremists. So what is the point I am trying to make? It is simply this: nobody checks the green lunatic fringe, fair enough; but there is somebody to check the saffron lunatic fringe. Over here, the green lunatic fringe can clearly be checked; what about the saffron?

You have already seen how things go on insaniyat. I don't have to point to mysterious paradises to be won at great cost with great sacrifice. Every single member there is there by mutual choice, not only because he, or she, wants to be there, but also because everyone else, as far as can be managed, is agreeable. Even for those who have a tendency to glorify the lunacy that has gripped us as a company, there is some restraint, there is some dismissal of extreme statements under the guise of laughter.

What I hope to see is not accidental, not unplanned, not happenstance. When Sumanta Tewari, whom I deeply admired and respected, stepped out of line in his belabouring of Nehru, and of several others, and his taking up a very complicated position that, in effect, amounted to support of the Sanghi position, he had to leave.

I am not asking for Riyasat e Madina over here. I am asking that the same atmosphere be fostered - success is another matter - so that we have a chance to build on a larger scale what already exists, and what is already a matter of your own daily experience. If it is a safe haven for extremists, do say so, right here, where there is nothing for me to take shelter behind.

Like I said Joe, I understand where you are coming from. I would be an Atlantis explorer/re-visiter myself from time to time, but they impounded my submarine and I have better things to do given I can just observe from time to time rather than participate anyway.

The point is we are trying an objective approach here as far as possible. Probably every forum starts with this in mind, its how you chart it long term....and lets hope for success on this here.

If there is rule violation, you (as mod) infract a point on the violator. The bans kick in automatically past that as they accumulate. The admins made you a mod for that very reason....your judgement is trusted.

We keep track record of persistent violators and they are shown the door when they prove they cannot change....number of them are currently on last lifelines (from all various countries here, incl ours).

There are no special favoured groups here....or groups to be targetted unfairly.

Just rules and due process....and applying them as fairly and consistently on all as possible.

Any mob trying to form a "thing" here will be sorely disappointed.

Infract anything (violation wise) you see, eventually the (few stray) mob-tendency malcontents will get the message, leave of own accord or end up perma banned.

Its already happened many times. It is why there has not been a huge explosion of cheapshot mass troll posting. Heck many probably see you and me as mods (and other people as mods in other sections) and just avoid the place to begin with.

But there are some trolls that are within the ladder of due process at any given moment...it is inevitable because human society produces and churns a certain % of them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Like I said Joe, I understand where you are coming from. I would be an Atlantis explorer/re-visiter myself from time to time, but they impounded my submarine and I have better things to do given I can just observe from time to time rather than participate anyway.

The point is we are trying an objective approach here as far as possible. Probably every forum starts with this in mind, its how you chart it long term....and lets hope for success on this here.

If there is rule violation, you (as mod) infract a point on the violator. The bans kick in automatically past that as they accumulate. The admins made you a mod for that very reason....your judgement is trusted.

We keep track record of persistent violators and they are shown the door when they prove they cannot change....number of them are currently on last lifelines (from all various countries here, incl ours).

There are no special favoured groups here....or groups to be targetted unfairly.

Just rules and due process....and applying them as fairly and consistently on all as possible.

Any mob trying to form a "thing" here will be sorely disappointed.

Infract anything (violation wise) you see, eventually the (few stray) mob-tendency malcontents will get the message, leave of own accord or end up perma banned.

Its already happened many times. It is why there has not been a huge explosion of cheapshot mass troll posting. Heck many probably see you and me as mods (and other people as mods in other sections) and just avoid the place to begin with.

But there are some trolls that are within the ladder of due process at any given moment...it is inevitable because human society produces and churns a certain % of them.

Good enough.

 

[Isa Khan]

@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505520581751435265

There is a lot of Indian giving more support toward Putin and his action in Ukraine even Goes far to undermine Ukraine struggle for their independence and freedom

I know, in Indonesia we got many Russian supporter too, but to know our government started to alienated the Russian at many level is quite a sign from where our stand lies. But compared to Indian level, just as we know even India government still doing business as usual and renew along with signing more arms contract and contract of energy deals with the Russian even after the invasion date along with India abstain during UN general assembly, India is clearly at Russian side.

Let's get one thing straight, individuals do not speak for countries.

This guy is not even in Indian govt to begin with (and his context bears looking at too if we are to quote him).

I speak and support Ukraine from my individual standpoint, as in the end I am accountable for myself only.

When we go to country-scale, there is too much long history of transaction first....morality way later.

It has been demonstrated to us time and time again (yes involving war, blood and innocent lives due to western hypocrisy...during both colonial era and post-colonial era)....so we will not join some bandwagon of theirs (trying to selectively trumpet something different) now or in the future.

They showed little to no concern for us on these topics back then....remained aloof (or even supporting of the evil perpetrating it)....all in the name of transactional equation first.

As bigger party, they will have to address and make amends for it first.....not us.

We are not one day going to forget who sanctioned us over nuclear testing (that somehow they got to do with no sanctions on each other)....

The gall of the west to feed the Russian war chest for the last 30 years, not address that (by own argument priority), yet come after others is appalling at best.

Even quite directly at moments:

India - Russian oil exports to India surge as Europe shuns cargoes

https://topbizlink.com/russian-oil-exports-to-india-surge-as-europe-shuns-cargoes/ (original story: https://www.ft.com/content/5efc6338-3f01-4015-aedf-53a4a1944ca8 ) Russian oil exports to India surge as Europe shuns cargoes Delhi maintains close trading ties with Moscow despite western...

defencehub.live

France, Germany and Italy sold arms to Russia despite embargo

France, Germany and Italy used a loophole in a ban of exporting arms to Russia to send the Kremlin €296million worth of military equipment that is now being used against Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Let them sanction each other severely (weapons, energy trade you name it) first....for what they did with far more time and money (with Russia, and employing their own logic they want to impose on others) than any other part of the world did.

Hope you read @Isa Khan reply here too:

Ukraine-Russia War

Apparently, this is a half-ton bomb (!) which the Russian Airforce is unloading over Ukrainian residential areas! This is unbelievable. Previously, the Russians used the FAB-500 over Syria.

defencehub.live

Any further conversation, I will quote this reply in coffee thread and interested parties can continue there, so as to not clog this thread more.

PRC and India are on the same side w.r.t not recognizing the Armenian episode of 1915 et al as "genocide".

Yet Turkey shares much closer economic and political relationship (and even mutual security relationship) with countries that do (most of the West).

Food for thought (again!) on transaction priority in relationships.

Some here are living in the West (knowing full well its hypocritical indulgences on all matters).... and disparaging India in all manner of unrelated foul ways they will soon get a warning for....some are giving them likes....

Kudos to larger membership that are not resorting to such off-topic foul (forum rule breaking) means.

Again, people are invited to the coffee thread to take any of this conversation further (within forum rules)....if they want to.

We all know how the western allies for so long dreamed to integrated Russian into their own of sphere, economies, politics culture and so on. Hence they hope Will avert conflict and get along together for better future, prevent world war tragedy ever happened again in European soil. Even in the lates of 90's there is notion about Russia joining European Union and NATO, as preparation stage they invited Russia to joint European council. Thus the long term support for Russian economies and invited them into many cooperation, including G8 economy group albeit their economy is not that good and even less compared to some large countries outside of G8.

I know clearly, India is in dilema position as Russia is inheritor of Soviet Union, long time Ally of India in which had been supported India during their time of woes as the US is giving full support for the Pakistan before. Necessary friend and allies should go together in Times of needs, either high either low, that's iron rule in this world if you want to survive with dignity.

But what if even your allies taking more weight in your competitor (China) asking from their help first and supporting their cause in several issue? Even knowing in full it just month away from deadly brawl between India and China. that's should be a major concern for India on where to taking the stand in this issue.

@Madokafc @HTurk

Trade still going on from EU to RUS (via BLR)

So what gives with the sermon to developing world?

This actual mess needs fixing first surely?

I mean its 8 years since crimea...........not 8 months (excusable in hindsight) for sudentenland.

What gives with facts on ground versus the media blab?

You should know doing trade deal with Belarus a vassal of Russia is still had different tone compared with deal with the Russian directly. And that's too still under tremendous scrutiny and even blockade here and there. And trading in daily necessity for people that's too different from deal in arms like Su 30 MKI or AK rifle production like what the India government doing last week!!?

You really want me to show you the money the West has poured into Russia for 30 years first huh?

They didn't know/understand better?

10 times more or 100 times more compared to any other?

It is all supposed to turn and stop on a dime for the rest...but never them huh? Always an excuse when my skin is white.

When the west cant and wont?

They had 8 years to deal with it after Crimea

Who were the guarantors of Ukraine's borders post 1991 alongside Russia....in exchange for ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons?

Some developing country?

Crimea happens (Russia's "im altering the deal, pray I dont alter it further)... and the other two guarantors dont back ukraine to the hilt for it....on their own guarantee given?



What is Germany importing RIGHT NOW? Paying hard currency for it?

Sending Schroder to grovel lol.



Franz Halder US-delivered medals are still glinting and shining.

Ill wait for the US to remove even one of them and make the apology.

Should be easier than tearing down General Lee surely? Surely closer in time and scale of mass murder of innocent surely.

Then we can start with Von Braun et al. and just how much white supremacy look the other way crap has built up in DC over a long time by precedent.

Stuff they will NEVER come clean on (was the morality on the holocaust to triumph transactional reality)...that too while exporting war to the vietnamese and Iraqis and whomever else by the thousands or millions?

I mean has DC, London or any other in the white-boy old club started even a limited discussion on what sanctions these three countries will face?

France, Germany and Italy sold arms to Russia despite embargo

France, Germany and Italy used a loophole in a ban of exporting arms to Russia to send the Kremlin €296million worth of military equipment that is now being used against Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Answer, please.

It wasn't even necessary for @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer to constantly explain India's stance on this to others. It seems @Madokafc pretty much ended the argument three days ago before it even started. Probably "used his position as an Indonesian not as Indian" while thinking about India's stance.

The way some Western countries and people (supporters or not) are acting here and outside world as if abstaining from voting means we're supporting Russia. If these countries and people still wanna talk then let them. Doesn't really matter as we don't really owe them any explanation. So what we said so far is more than enough. It's probably easy for them to ditch Russia and work more closely with the West so may be that's why they have the audacity to talk about these neutral countries on Ukraine issue.

Like i said before India and other countries are looking for own interest. Whatever the opinion of common people (basically nobodies), things are more complex at ministerial level. After all what really matter is bilateral trade and relation. So people "should weigh their opinion less when they're not part of those neutral countries or governments."

We don't need to tell India about Russia's alliance with China, it's nothing new and Indian govt and educated citizens are well aware of it. If there's war with China, Russia might stay neutral while keep supplying weapons to India cause China is not it's main customer for weapon. It was hilarious to see US lecturing India about China, Russia when it's playing safe on Ukraine issue and trying to block India's S-400 deal. So how will Russia will come to India's defense if you try to stop them?

Also this is the same country who were against India during Bangladesh's liberation war and dispatched 7th fleet when Russia supported India and sent naval fleet to stop US navy. So i don't how US could be so shameless to lecture India about Russia-China.

Whoever the invader is India or any other country have to be prepared to face them alone. It's not like US or it's allies will come to save anyone. In this kinda situation, they will only try to profit from selling weapons like they're trying to do to Bangladesh now. So no amount of crying in UN will stop any invasion or genocide. We'll have to learn from Azerbaijan and Ukraine's lesson.

Another funny thing is just like US, Japan is trying to get India's support on Ukraine issue while it openly supports Myanmar junta on Rohingya issue. Kishida's audacity to ask Modi to take tougher action against Russia while Japan abstains from any UN resolution on Rohingya issue is really infuriating!!

Geopolitics is certainly amusing!!

Russia Wouldn't Come To Your Defence If China Breaches Border, US Warns India

The US has warned India against warming up to Russia, ahead of a visit by Moscow's top diplomat to press New Delhi to resist Western pressure to condemn its invasion of Ukraine.

www.ndtv.com

"No One Should Be Allowed...": Japan PM On Ukraine, PM Modi By His Side

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a "very serious issue which is shaking the roots of international order", Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said on Saturday in New Delhi, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi standing next to him.

www.ndtv.com

Japan PM urges Modi to take tougher line against Russian invasion

Fumio Kishida, on a visit to New Delhi, calls on Indian PM to take a tougher stand over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

www.aljazeera.com

U.N. committee strongly condemns Myanmar's persecution of Rohingya; Japan abstains from vote

A United Nations committee on Friday endorsed a resolution turning up the heat on Myanmar over the persecution of its Rohingya Muslim minority.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Rights group denounces Japan envoy for 'disturbing' comments on Myanmar Rohingya

Tokyo-based human rights activists on Wednesday decried recent remarks by Japan's ambassador to Yangon, who told local media he did not think the Myanmar military committed genocide on the Rohingya Muslim minority in the country.

www.reuters.com

No one asked those small countries to joint NATO or European Union, no one else coerce them to joint any alliances. If they want to joint NATO it is their right as an independen country. If they joint CSTO it is their right.

You are using your position as a Bangladeshi people not as Eastern European , that's what i mean as Bangladesh logic. That's why you should weighing your opinion less when you don't have any contribution here

 

[Joe Shearer]

It wasn't even necessary for @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer to constantly explain India's stance on this to others.

Which post of mine was that?

PS: @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer are two different individuals. Just for the record.

 

[Isa Khan]

Which post of mine was that?

PS: @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer are two different individuals. Just for the record.

I guess between 370-436 in the sticky thread on Ukraine war and rest is here. I only quoted @Nilgiri cause he was more elaborate but read your replies too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I guess between 370-436 in the sticky thread on Ukraine war and rest is here. I only quoted @Nilgiri cause he was more elaborate but read your replies too.

Chief, let me clarify. I posted SIX times on the Ukraine - Russia conflict. NOT ONE of them mentioned Bangladesh.

Please do NOT tag me in a routine manner. I thank you in advance.

 

[Nilgiri]

It wasn't even necessary for @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer to constantly explain India's stance on this to others. It seems @Madokafc pretty much ended the argument three days ago before it even started. Probably "used his position as an Indonesian not as Indian" while thinking about India's stance.

The way some Western countries and people (supporters or not) are acting here and outside world as if abstaining from voting means we're supporting Russia. If these countries and people still wanna talk then let them. Doesn't really matter as we don't really owe them any explanation. So what we said so far is more than enough. It's probably easy for them to ditch Russia and work more closely with the West so may be that's why they have the audacity to talk about these neutral countries on Ukraine issue.

Like i said before India and other countries are looking for own interest. Whatever the opinion of common people (basically nobodies), things are more complex at ministerial level. After all what really matter is bilateral trade and relation. So people "should weigh their opinion less when they're not part of those neutral countries or governments."

We don't need to tell India about Russia's alliance with China, it's nothing new and Indian govt and educated citizens are well aware of it. If there's war with China, Russia might stay neutral while keep supplying weapons to India cause China is not it's main customer for weapon. It was hilarious to see US lecturing India about China, Russia when it's playing safe on Ukraine issue and trying to block India's S-400 deal. So how will Russia will come to India's defense if you try to stop them?

Also this is the same country who were against India during Bangladesh's liberation war and dispatched 7th fleet when Russia supported India and sent naval fleet to stop US navy. So i don't how US could be so shameless to lecture India about Russia-China.

Whoever the invader is India or any other country have to be prepared to face them alone. It's not like US or it's allies will come to save anyone. In this kinda situation, they will only try to profit from selling weapons like they're trying to do to Bangladesh now. So no amount of crying in UN will stop any invasion or genocide. We'll have to learn from Azerbaijan and Ukraine's lesson.

Another funny thing is just like US, Japan is trying to get India's support on Ukraine issue while it openly supports Myanmar junta on Rohingya issue. Kishida's audacity to ask Modi to take tougher action against Russia while Japan abstains from any UN resolution on Rohingya issue is really infuriating!!

Geopolitics is certainly amusing!!

Russia Wouldn't Come To Your Defence If China Breaches Border, US Warns India

The US has warned India against warming up to Russia, ahead of a visit by Moscow's top diplomat to press New Delhi to resist Western pressure to condemn its invasion of Ukraine.

www.ndtv.com

"No One Should Be Allowed...": Japan PM On Ukraine, PM Modi By His Side

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a "very serious issue which is shaking the roots of international order", Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said on Saturday in New Delhi, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi standing next to him.

www.ndtv.com

Japan PM urges Modi to take tougher line against Russian invasion

Fumio Kishida, on a visit to New Delhi, calls on Indian PM to take a tougher stand over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

www.aljazeera.com

U.N. committee strongly condemns Myanmar's persecution of Rohingya; Japan abstains from vote

A United Nations committee on Friday endorsed a resolution turning up the heat on Myanmar over the persecution of its Rohingya Muslim minority.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Rights group denounces Japan envoy for 'disturbing' comments on Myanmar Rohingya

Tokyo-based human rights activists on Wednesday decried recent remarks by Japan's ambassador to Yangon, who told local media he did not think the Myanmar military committed genocide on the Rohingya Muslim minority in the country.

www.reuters.com

Bro, here's the thing.... in the end the mental diseases of every society (whatever unique types, agendas and narratives they are) in each country get refined and concentrated in the power corridors.

In society it is dispersed...so you get lot of decent people to get along with just fine overall....or they have decency to manage disagreements with you in various ways....because there is more important stuff to do in the real world with just 24 hours a day of finite life.

People on the ground level get this overall as the first basis.

But the mental diseases (of each society) get passed vertically into power (ivory towers) and concentrate there in various ways.

Once you understand this you understand that it will easily include any kind of selective amnesia needed, delusions needed/indulged, and hypocrisy that is needed to get a pressured-result on something of the "current" great attention.

When life and death is involved (since those are absolutes that everyone knows well past any identity/thinking), this attention crystallises to its greatest size and generally diminishes by distance from the area (i.e those closer to it feel it most.....those furthest away feel it least).

When you are strong you can increase the range and intensity of this process (more of the world has to care about it by your power/influence)....

.....when you are weak you have to take it (the same exact stuff) on the chin most of the time...and world is uncaring.

It is simply imperative for countries like ours to become as strong as possible to have the best hands to play this game for our collective populations.

I wish as many people understand this as possible rather than fall prey to the hypocrisy the powerful exercise.

If it was another set of great power(s) in another part of Earth (by some alternate route of history taken to produce this)....I feel very strongly we will just see the same results....with names changed.

 

[Nilgiri]

@xenon5434 , this was the earlier post I made regarding the subject you brought up on chips w.r.t China etc, the "depreciation of certain production machines" is exactly what I meant back then w.r.t say the (DUV) lithograph refurbishing that ASML does for China currently...and the contingencies China is taking on that already given the further sunset horizon appearing:

All is not what it seems there either....

TIFWIW:

Behind the scenes and layers....PRC has drawn several red lines for RUS

Friend of mine (and he is pretty high up in the know about this) says certain chips China makes...are held extremely close to their chest...especially given pressures and obstacles increasingly placed there by the West.

Specifics include stockpiles of such that must now be rationed almost (prioritised very well for this decade or so)...given known depreciation of certain production machines that China is caught in a bind about lately given premature door closing (and they know there is a marathon in a maze ahead still).

This is a significant problem PRC does not want to make even worse w.r.t where the horizon actually is versus thought to be (buddy used some idiom more complicated than this...but this will have to do).

There is a finish line (and a target finish time involved)...but now there will need to be much more autarkic + insulated commitment to it than before...and with as low risk taken as possible with deemed strategic clients/partners.

Russia approached them on this stuff a number of times, but were rejected each time by PRC.

PRC also has a complex w.r.t the expanse past the great wall. They do not forget so easily where all the barbarians and raiders came from in general.....people without the anchor of civilised hearth as my friend said.

China sent massed human waves (which it paid for quite dearly) into korea on Russia's (Uncle Joe USSR) request and trust....it included both transaction and emotional aspects.

But after him (in much of the chinese mindframe), just few short years that is all mostly forgotten by the Russians and Ussuri happens....not far from vladivostok that was taken away from the Qing.

People try to package too much of China (what they say in an instance....or allow to be heard)....but getting full picture is more complex.

I will continue more of this at later juncture....in the coffee thread and "taiwan next" thread.....but I keep the russian context here for people to consider a bit from another angle.

This thread also is good read for interested members that contains some more related material within it ( later pages 7 - 8):

Is Taiwan Next?

This is a subject worth debating. Is this the time for China to act? Will China make a move? There are some indications China's leaders may be watching Ukraine with an eye on Taiwan Hong Kong (CNN)As the world's attention focuses on the escalating crisis between Russia and Ukraine, a...

defencehub.live

This channel is one of the best on Youtube for deeper look into the subject material (and much else):

https://www.youtube.com/c/Asianometry

For others reference, this was vid that Xenon forwarded to me:

@Blackbeardsgoldfish @Amardeep Mishra @Paro et al.

 

[Paro]

The Business Of Halal: How Stuff Is Certified Halal By Devout Followers Of Islam

[object Object]

www.google.com

How can a religious agency force companies to have 20% muslim workforce without any constitutional overwatch?

 

[Isa Khan]

I posted SIX times on the Ukraine - Russia conflict. NOT ONE of them mentioned Bangladesh.

It wasn't even necessary for @Nilgiri and @Joe Shearer to constantly explain India's stance on this to others.

Umm i was basically talking about India in my reply.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The Business Of Halal: How Stuff Is Certified Halal By Devout Followers Of Islam

[object Object]

www.google.com

How can a religious agency force companies to have 20% muslim workforce without any constitutional overwatch?

It cannot.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Umm i was basically talking about India in my reply.

I realise that.

You must understand that you are dealing with an old man and an ultra-sensitive one at that. Your posts have always been measured and balanced, even on the most harrowing of topics, and I have enjoyed reading them, and will continue to take great pleasure in reading them.

It's just that I didn't actually make that generic Indian statement, and I was very anxious to be seen not to have equated Bangladesh with others. Since you have raised the matter, you must have wondered why I reacted so, in fact, why I reacted at all, and this is my reason for doing that.

Too many times external powers have told, have instructed India what to do, and it has always been a source of great resentment. I would not, for the life of me, have a person of your stature thinking that I would do the same thing about Bangladesh.