Turkey to build its future with Europe

[what]

Dansöz is dancing again. Economic situation and incoming Biden are major factors here. But you can't insult leaders and countries and expect things to go normal again.

 

[mulj]

Yea, you should shut up and let them abuse you. Erdogan flip flop tactic is only thing that Turkey keeps afloat in power projection abroad. Otherwise i see this as Erdogan usual stunt amd i feel sorry for the Turks that are striving to the eu thinking that they will see Turkey as equal partner in mutual relations.

 

[Saithan]

Yea, you should shut up and let them abuse you. Erdogan flip flop tactic is only thing that Turkey keeps afloat in power projection abroad. Otherwise i see this as Erdogan usual stunt amd i feel sorry for the Turks that are striving to the eu thinking that they will see Turkey as equal partner in mutual relations.

There are lots of that kind, they’d have live in Europe to understand EU is never going to accept Turkey in the union, but they’re dumb and blind enough to give concessions and so on.

RTE is a fool too because he should learn to keep his mouth shut, but he likes opening his mouth for the ummah. We should only worry about the Turks and our neighborhood.

 

[CAN_TR]

There are lots of that kind, they’d have live in Europe to understand EU is never going to accept Turkey in the union, but they’re dumb and blind enough to give concessions and so on.

RTE is a fool too because he should learn to keep his mouth shut, but he likes opening his mouth for the ummah. We should only worry about the Turks and our neighborhood.

This.

 

[Turko]

He says because Merkel who is mere alliance warned him with future sanctions. Macron and other internal powers have been pressing Merkel. There is real sanction threat from EU.
That's why our president lower tension.

 

[mulj]

I hope that things are that simple but they are not, it would be selfish amd dishonest if he disregard totaly muslim matters around the world espesially considering Turkey past and possible future.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330183330986418183

Everyone calm down. Nothing has changed. We call for equal partnership with a sweet tongue. But they don't recognize our rights from Lausanne. Turkey's Cyprus policy has not changed. Turkey's Eastern Mediterranean policy has not changed. Just today released a new Navtex. Oruc Reis's mandate has been extended.

 

[Kaptaan]

RTE is a fool too because he should learn to keep his mouth shut, but he likes opening his mouth for the ummah. We should only worry about the Turks and our neighborhood.

I think he is smooth operator. yes, you are right EU will never accept Turkey. If there was any possibility it has been killed stone dead by UK leaving EU. Britain has been more understanding of Turks. Now EU is a mule which has it's reins held by France and Germany.

As regards ummah I think Erdogan plays with that card to buy influence in emerging markets. The fact is Turkey is terribly well placed in centre of the Eurasian continent athwart North Africa and as time passes she can capitalize by being the hub of three continents.

50 years ago Europe was the only real pull but in another 50 years think the massive market that will exist in greater Middle East which includes Pakistan, Central Asia, Russia and North Africa on top of Europe. As I have said Istanbul will be the new London of the Eurasian continent.


I know you guys are going through tough ecxonomic times but so is large part of the world but the long term prognosis is excellant.

 

[Kaptaan]

One of the argumant pushed by Brexiteers which carry weight was that Europe in relative global terms has shrunk. That is in 1950 the world economy was Atlantic-centric. Today European market is small % of global trade and that % is reducing. To put it bluntly when you have the world at your finger tips why restrict yourself to the continent? I think this line of thinking is also appicable to Turkey. Turkey is well placed to seize the emerging opportunities. Those who evolve survive. People think the order that existed in XX century will remain fixed. Nothing does. Just look at the past eras.

The world's shifting centre of gravity​

How the world's economic centre of gravity has shifted

The world's shifting centre of gravity

How the world's economic centre of gravity has shifted

www.economist.com

 

[Reviewbrah]

When Bulgaria and Romania joined EU, they were no means under EU standards. EU standards are only for Turkey. Accession to EU was a joke.

 

[Kaptaan]

When Bulgaria and Romania joined EU, they were no means under EU standards. EU standards are only for Turkey. Accession to EU was a joke.

The truth is Turkey was treated with utter disrespect. How could ex-Warsaw Pact enemies and third rate economies like Bulgaria, Romania be allowed into EU when Turkey a NATO member had been trying to get in well before the Iron Curtain came crashing down. The hurdles placed were just convenient and masked way of saying "no".

 

[Kaptaan]

masked way of saying "no".

The reason was for that "no" is a topic in it self that probably deserves a thread to address it properly.

 

[Deliorman]

Yea, you should shut up and let them abuse you. Erdogan flip flop tactic is only thing that Turkey keeps afloat in power projection abroad. Otherwise i see this as Erdogan usual stunt amd i feel sorry for the Turks that are striving to the eu thinking that they will see Turkey as equal partner in mutual relations.

Dude, having a big mouth that today spits and tomorrow licks and spinning around like a belly dancer doesn’t make you a respected person/politician. Nobody asks Erdogan to be Europe’s or America’s puddle but it’s pathetic one day to do stupid things (like the Pastor Brunson saga and putting Berat as a minister of finance) and shout “Eyyyy America, Nazi Almanya, Crazy Macron... who are you?!” bu on the other to talk how we are strategic partners and throw sweet words and kisses.

Less emotional speeches and more diplomacy. A politician should be realistic and should know how to play his cards, should be thinking about mid and long term goals rather than short term gains to get some votes. Foreign policy should be built on interests and rationality rather than ideology or sectarianism.

 

[Deliorman]

The truth is Turkey was treated with utter disrespect. How could ex-Warsaw Pact enemies and third rate economies like Bulgaria, Romania be allowed into EU when Turkey a NATO member had been trying to get in well before the Iron Curtain came crashing down. The hurdles placed were just convenient and masked way of saying "no".

Do you realize that if Turkey was taken into the EU it would now be the biggest country there... how do you expect Germany and France to allow someone else to basically lead the union instead of them? If Turkey was now in the EU I assure you that now basically all of Turkey’s poor and uneducated would have been in Western Europe to work and/or get welfare. It’s one thing to talk about 1 million Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies and uneducated workers and completely another to talk about 10 million uneducated gypsies, Kurds, Arabs, Turks that have no future in Turkey. A country like Bulgaria gets 4-5€ billion a year in subsidies from EU’s budget- how much would a country like Turkey need? Nobody wants to pay for that and all of the problems that will come out of it. 10 million Turks are already in Western Europe and everyone one there hates them and doesn’t like them so why would they take another 10... let’s be realistic.

 

[mulj]

Dude, having a big mouth that today spits and tomorrow licks and spinning around like a belly dancer doesn’t make you a respected person/politician. Nobody asks Erdogan to be Europe’s or America’s puddle but it’s pathetic one day to do stupid things (like the Pastor Brunson saga and putting Berat as a minister of finance) and shout “Eyyyy America, Nazi Almanya, Crazy Macron... who are you?!” bu on the other to talk how we are strategic partners and throw sweet words and kisses.

Less emotional speeches and more diplomacy. A politician should be realistic and should know how to play his cards, should be thinking about mid and long term goals rather than short term gains to get some votes. Foreign policy should be built on interests and rationality rather than ideology or sectarianism.

That is why people love him or hate him, he is pioneer of populist approach in the world politics and he does it like master, never the less I coud not see better person who could led turkey ln last decade or so. Your points will be accounted to him on next elections by turkish people or not. It is ilusion that foreign policy is not based on ideology, that is exact point of foreign policy after that particular interests came in order.

 

[Xenon54]

That is why people love him or hate him, he is pioneer of populist approach in the world politics and he does it like master, never the less I coud not see better person who could led turkey ln last decade or so. Your points will be accounted to him on next elections by turkish people or not. It is ilusion that foreign policy is not based on ideology, that is exact point of foreign policy after that particular interests came in order.

Who is the pioneer of populism? Hitler is turning in his grave right now.

 

[Nilgiri]

Do you realize that if Turkey was taken into the EU it would now be the biggest country there... how do you expect Germany and France to allow someone else to basically lead the union instead of them? If Turkey was now in the EU I assure you that now basically all of Turkey’s poor and uneducated would have been in Western Europe to work and/or get welfare. It’s one thing to talk about 1 million Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies and uneducated workers and completely another to talk about 10 million uneducated gypsies, Kurds, Arabs, Turks that have no future in Turkey. A country like Bulgaria gets 4-5€ billion a year in subsidies from EU’s budget- how much would a country like Turkey need? Nobody wants to pay for that and all of the problems that will come out of it. 10 million Turks are already in Western Europe and everyone one there hates them and doesn’t like them so why would they take another 10... let’s be realistic.

If EU was actually logical, it would have a different tier for eastern europe in first place during the 90s expansion and have threshold requirements to then join the actual EU later as countries meet them.

They got super stupid expanding super early...but then again they had Greece join way early before its ready (and still not ready now tbh - look at that mountain of debt to its economy and liquidity). It is organisation definitely driven by some level of irrational superiority complex vis-a-vis "proper" europeans rather than geographic or economic concept in the area.

With a common root logic of what EU expansion even should achieve, the case for Turkey to be kept out (past customs union) becomes more rational too (i.e simply Turkey must reach this same level of economic output per capita and other norms/standards relative to its labour force...that is kept as same for any country with European geography i.e Eastern Europe)....but EU didn't do and won't do things that way.

Honestly though....practically Turkey is best off with Customs union status quo it now has (as you get the investment stream if you put in better policy and reforms), seeing this crap with Brexit...and also looking at countries with EFTA or other agreements but staying outside EU for their optimised reasons (swiss, norway etc)

Last thing you need is more political bureaucrats adding layers of legalese BS (operating under norms found different to Turkey situation) that most likely would be bad for Turkey, and definitely not up for vote by Turkish citizens.

This keep things more flexible overall with how Turkey wants to go about economic relations with the larger world and make its own policy there...without any brussels diktat....but you get measured large economic access with EU as you possibly and reasonably can (Customs union).

 

[Kaptaan]

Do you realize that if Turkey was taken into the EU it would now be the biggest country there... how do you expect Germany and France to allow someone else to basically lead the union instead of them? If Turkey was now in the EU I assure you that now basically all of Turkey’s poor and uneducated would have been in Western Europe to work and/or get welfare. It’s one thing to talk about 1 million Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies and uneducated workers and completely another to talk about 10 million uneducated gypsies, Kurds, Arabs, Turks that have no future in Turkey. A country like Bulgaria gets 4-5€ billion a year in subsidies from EU’s budget- how much would a country like Turkey need? Nobody wants to pay for that and all of the problems that will come out of it. 10 million Turks are already in Western Europe and everyone one there hates them and doesn’t like them so why would they take another 10... let’s be realistic.

Of course. But your looking at it from 2020. The reasons you cited were what drove UK public to vote for Brexit. But, but look at it from turn of the millenium. There is Turkey. Been a integral and critical part of NATO. Now look at mob of poor recently freed Warsaw Pact countries. The list is long. Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria whose collective population matches Turkey and the number of migrants EE produced matches or is even greater than the figure you gave for Turkey. Do you know the total cost handed out to all these ex-Warsaw Pact countries?

All these were placed in front of Turkey while these got preferantial treatment. I know the reason and so do you I suspect. That reason is partly historical. Everytime I pass a pub in my city called 'The Turks Head' alludes to that.

 

[mulj]

Who is the pioneer of populism? Hitler is turning in his grave right now.

ok, modern one then.

 

[Kaptaan]

And I say it to you guys again. Humans have a habit of looking back and not forward. EU was a product of post WW2 dynamic that brought Germany and France together creating a major economic ecosystem that pulled others into it's orbit and was perfect equilibrium given the Cold War and nicly grooved into the Nato defence architecture.

However in 2020 and looking forward the world is changing profoundly. That is why those who voted for Brexit [I own up I did] provides a opportunity freed from the straitjacket of EU to be a flexible player across the globe. Why be restricted to your local hood when the world is there for your taking.

If EU is a common market and that confers advantage tell me why can;t I buy my cars from Germany, towels from Egypt, oranges from Marrocco, olives from Turkey, IT services from India etc ???

Instead I am forced to buy my olives from Greece, towels from Portrugal, oranges from Spain, IT from Ireland all at extra cost because of EU? This is protectionism simple.