TR Naval Programs

[Reviewbrah]

Some twitter people is speaking about embargo on Mk41 to be delivered for I-Class, there is nothing such as of now.
Officials ,a month or so ago, have told about there wasn't any embargoes on naval programs (amid claims of some twitter accounts hinting embargoes on submarine and surface vessel programs)
Also, i believe SSB would have spoken about that, the way they have hinted the embargoes on critical parts of missiles.
Those people should stop spreading rumors to look active,and look like insiders.

If you get like 45-50k followers on twitter you are officially a defense/weapon systems analyst, they freaking invite you to TV programs. No political science or engineering degree needed.

 

[Turko]

Everyone is speaking about that, but it is still not assured that G40 will be ready anytime soon.
Nothing is bad about Mk41 + ESSM, we need MIDAS and Turkish AA missiles to fill the gap for what wasn't sold.
3 Ships are planned to be constructed by private shipyards and by a single tender, MIDAS + G40 should be ready before RfP but it doesnt seem possible.

Could you tell us if you know, the MIDAS will be identical to Mk41 or MIDAS can launch just G40 type mid-size missiles? For SIPER will be another launcher?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Bora with seeker head will be the same with existing Bora missiles but It will have an advanced terminal guidance system to detect the targets. With this way, Bora will calibrate its course in order to strike on moving/fixed targets on sea surface.

I hope the Bora missile has terminal-course maneuvering capability like the Iskender M missile to evade air defence systems. I would also like to see it to be as aerodynamic as possible to improve it’s terminal speed.

 

[Anmdt]

Could you tell us if you know, the MIDAS will be identical to Mk41 or MIDAS can launch just G40 type mid-size missiles? For SIPER will be another launcher?

I don't know much about project itself, but there won't be much of modifications when Mk41 is replaced with MIDAS on I-Class, so we can be sure that the first introduced size will he able to handle G40 to Siper (judging from tactical length Mk41 size).
Probably they will introduce another size later if TN is interested in launching cruise missiles from VLS.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330452579868958721

U-214TN data distribution system has been delivered by Havelsan.

 

[Khagan1923]

Some twitter people is speaking about embargo on Mk41 to be delivered for I-Class, there is nothing such as of now.
Officials ,a month or so ago, have told about there wasn't any embargoes on naval programs (amid claims of some twitter accounts hinting embargoes on submarine and surface vessel programs)
Also, i believe SSB would have spoken about that, the way they have hinted the embargoes on critical parts of missiles.
Those people should stop spreading rumors to look active,and look like insiders.

That person stopped being a insider long time ago, nowadays he is more worried about protecting certain establishments from the backlash that comes with years of delay of projects. Funny enough he seems to have forgotten all about the shady railgun project he was advertising two years ago almost daily on his page. Dude is a big fat phony nothing more nothing less. People should have realised it when he was trying to erase Anka's participation in the offensive against Assad and Iranian Militia in february.

Embargos my ass, how convinient that every delay is suddenly connected to embargos. If they could revise history they would blame embargos for the long ass delay of the ADA-Class.

 

[Anmdt]

It looks like Alpagu, i hope it is block II or III since 5-10 km range isn't enough for seas, should be at least 100km+ for effective ISR.

Looks like it was Chaff launcher.

 

[Anmdt]

DIMDEG (RAS):
Surface search radar,
2 x CIWS (Phalanx or Gökdeniz)
Deck space for boats and containers, with multiple cranes (3x)
Hangar for two helicopters (might be intended for VERTEG)
Contract signed in 2018 for single ship (more expected in future to replace aged oilers, and supply LHD flotilla), 58 months to deliver (expected in 2023).

 

[Nutuk]

A while ago there were tests with artillery missiles from boats.

Do we or should we have a program to make container launchers for AD missiles?

Most of our ships have now the Genesis command system, how about making the ships AD missile ready?

Ships like Milgem for instance do not have AD missiles but there is room behind the main gun to place one or two containers.

Something like Northrop Gruman's container missile launcher that could be attached to a pre-configured spot on for instance a Milgem corvette that can be equiped with say Hisar-O or G40 missiles in times of need.

In peace times no need for AD missiles, in war time you simply place one or two container giving the ship an extra pair of teeth

 

[CAN_TR]

A while ago there were tests with artillery missiles from boats.

Do we or should we have a program to make container launchers for AD missiles?

Most of our ships have now the Genesis command system, how about making the ships AD missile ready?

Ships like Milgem for instance do not have AD missiles but there is room behind the main gun to place one or two containers.

Something like Northrop Gruman's container missile launcher that could be attached to a pre-configured spot on for instance a Milgem corvette that can be equiped with say Hisar-O or G40 missiles in times of need.

In peace times no need for AD missiles, in war time you simply place one or two container giving the ship an extra pair of teeth

But with placing such containers on a Ada-class corvette means no SH-60 Seahawk helicopters and they are force multipliers for Ada-class in ASW warfare and ASUW (anti surface).

Those corvettes should have been delivered anyways with few VLS just in case.

 

[Reviewbrah]

A while ago there were tests with artillery missiles from boats.

Do we or should we have a program to make container launchers for AD missiles?

Most of our ships have now the Genesis command system, how about making the ships AD missile ready?

Ships like Milgem for instance do not have AD missiles but there is room behind the main gun to place one or two containers.

Something like Northrop Gruman's container missile launcher that could be attached to a pre-configured spot on for instance a Milgem corvette that can be equiped with say Hisar-O or G40 missiles in times of need.

In peace times no need for AD missiles, in war time you simply place one or two container giving the ship an extra pair of teeth

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331709972162506754

 

[Nutuk]

But with placing such containers on a Ada-class corvette means no SH-60 Seahawk helicopters and they are force multipliers for Ada-class in ASW warfare and ASUW (anti surface).

Those corvettes should have been delivered anyways with few VLS just in case.

If containers are placed on the helipad you're right, but if placed behind the main cannon it won't hinder helicopters

 

[Nutuk]

Yes it would require some fixation integration on the deck but it's worth it I think

Most ships do not see any war in their lifetime. Ships like Milgem have no VLS to keep the ship lowcost, but if prepared to be container launcher ready you'd have ships that have much higher survivability in war time.

Ships like Milgem have every ingredient already on board to make it work: Genesis command system, 3D radar (actually everything that I-class has except VLS)

 

[CAN_TR]

But the question is does ADA-class need capabilities for AAW? It can protect itself atleast with RAM but a small amount of additional ESSM or G40 just in case would be the better option.

And seriously Turkey has to make cut somewhere and direct this money to the ship construction and Navy, it's not heating up it's literally boiling.

 

[Reviewbrah]

Agree, but the best way to save money is making some systems modular. Use those modules when you are at war, in peace time no need.

I mentioned only Milgem, but any other ship that has Genesis and 3D radar: LST, LHD, patrol boats, FAC's etc. could be equipped in time of need with an air defense layer.

Adapting to technological possibilities gives the navy more flexibility

Russian Navy tested TOR on heli deck of Admiral Grigorovich

 

[Saithan]

Russian Navy tested TOR on heli deck of Admiral Grigorovich

View attachment 7395

TB2 has become their nightmare...

Jokes aside.

Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Built up on modules, making it easier to configure. And looking at how Multi-Role seems to be flavor of the year. We should consider whether it'll fit our doctrine. Indonesia went with Iver.

 

[Anmdt]

TB2 has become their nightmare...

Jokes aside.

Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Built up on modules, making it easier to configure. And looking at how Multi-Role seems to be flavor of the year. We should consider whether it'll fit our doctrine. Indonesia went with Iver.

In fact those modules compromises the volume under the deck, you need to spare enough volume for several applications, even with the shallowest one (ie. SSM missiles) that volume is occupied, and thus useless. It is the cheaper way of providing modularity which results in inefficiency. I still don't understand why would someone strive for modular payloads on 5000+ tonnes frigate.
In Danish IH case there are 4 stanflex either to choose Harpoon in Mk141 (quad launcher) or ESSM in Mk56 (twelve launcher), which can be fit into VLS (8 cell = 32 ESSM) much more efficiently. So from efficiency point of view it is best used with 4 x 4 Harpoon which is already standard amount nowadays in frigates.
And i think VLS itself provides enough flexibility in the payload of the missiles.

Agree, but the best way to save money is making some systems modular. Use those modules when you are at war, in peace time no need.

I mentioned only Milgem, but any other ship that has Genesis and 3D radar: LST, LHD, patrol boats, FAC's etc. could be equipped in time of need with an air defense layer.

Adapting to technological possibilities gives the navy more flexibility

I used to say this wasn't possible (rather for 16 VLS), but i have talked with someone and seen some images from the past and also one from a seminar (which i am still looking for the picture to post here because it is available to public) which had shown Ada-class as is, but with 8 VLS behind the gun (As shown in PN Milgem project's preliminary pictures).
However, if that plan is already scrapped due to inefficient space under the deck i don't think it is possible to convert existing Ada-Class hulls. Since the first emerged design of PN Milgem had shown such a think,i have used to think it was just a Photoshop and senseless modification to express design capabilities, i am now assured, Ada-Class with 8 VLS has existed in design stage at some point and wasn't favored.

Evolution into I-Class wasn't only for sake of fitting VLS, Turkish Navy was also asking for a ship with longer range, endurance and with extra canister space for SSM.

 

[Saithan]

In fact those modules compromises the volume under the deck, you need to spare enough volume for several applications, even with the shallowest one (ie. SSM missiles) that volume is occupied, and thus useless. It is the cheaper way of providing modularity which results in inefficiency. I still don't understand why would someone strive for modular payloads on 5000+ tonnes frigate.
In Danish IH case there are 4 stanflex either to choose Harpoon in Mk141 (quad launcher) or ESSM in Mk56 (twelve launcher), which can be fit into VLS (8 cell = 32 ESSM) much more efficiently. So from efficiency point of view it is best used with 4 x 4 Harpoon which is already standard amount nowadays in frigates.
And i think VLS itself provides enough flexibility in the payload of the missiles.



I used to say this wasn't possible (rather for 16 VLS), but i have talked with someone and seen some images from the past and also one from a seminar (which i am still looking for the picture to post here because it is available to public) which had shown Ada-class as is, but with 8 VLS behind the gun (As shown in PN Milgem project's preliminary pictures).
However, if that plan is already scrapped due to inefficient space under the deck i don't think it is possible to convert existing Ada-Class hulls. Since the first emerged design of PN Milgem had shown such a think,i have used to think it was just a Photoshop and senseless modification to express design capabilities, i am now assured, Ada-Class with 8 VLS has existed in design stage at some point and wasn't favored.

Evolution into I-Class wasn't only for sake of fitting VLS, Turkish Navy was also asking for a ship with longer range, endurance and with extra canister space for SSM.

I didn’t know the solution gave way to inefficiency. I was thinking they’d found solutions similar to building Lego, and each module could be refitted using highest possible efficiency without jeapordizing the overall structure with comparable tonnage and class

 

[Anmdt]

I didn’t know the solution gave way to inefficiency. I was thinking they’d found solutions similar to building Lego, and each module could be refitted using highest possible efficiency without jeapordizing the overall structure with comparable tonnage and class

It still has deck penetration and support structure around the module (where it is plugged in)

StanFlex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think it is best used when you need to use support modules like gun ,crane + rhib, ELINT - COMINT, Drone operation center. Not for interchangeable ESS - Harpoon - AD missiles.
You don't much worry about volume in large support vessels or OPVs which suits for this perfectly.
Most of the benefits also applies for similar non- modular equipment for naval vessels, if you have the spare one you fit it on vessel, take out the other equipment to the workshop.

 

[adenl]

Yes the Ada should've went the La Fayette way with space reserved for VLS. I kinda like the La Fayette for its potential to become a fully fledged multi-role frigate than the light-frigate, ocean patrol it is now.