Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

JATOSINT · Oct 21, 2023

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1715884069798699397

Lordimperator · Oct 21, 2023

norman88 said:
Meaning of "submerged" in this case maybe "total submerged endurance" which mean with and without snorkeling. Because it's almost impossible for non-nuclear subs can fully submerged for 78 days without snorkeling (to recharge batteries)

In comparison, KSS-III which combines AIP+Lithium-ion, only get 20+ days to fully submerged without snorkeling.

South Korea's KSS-III Batch 2 Submarine to Feature both AIP and Li-Ion Batteries - Naval News

Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) is currently building the third submarine of the KSS-III Batch 1 project in partnership with Daewoo Shipbuilding Maritime Engineering (DSME) Naval News learned at MADEX 2021 in Busan, South Korea.

www.navalnews.com

And 9 days on soryu subs lithium-ion. (Estimated)

Performance Table, Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) vs Lead-acid Batteries (LABs)

A professional level blog on strategic matters, especially submarines (nuclear and conventional) in English, Hindi & most other major languages.

gentleseas.blogspot.com

7 days* bottoming for the scorpene tonnages doesnt sound bad then

*From the facebook post

rai456 · Oct 22, 2023

norman88 said:
Meaning of "submerged" in this case maybe "total submerged endurance" which mean with and without snorkeling. Because it's almost impossible for non-nuclear subs can fully submerged for 78 days without snorkeling (to recharge batteries)

In comparison, KSS-III which combines AIP+Lithium-ion, only get 20+ days to fully submerged without snorkeling.

South Korea's KSS-III Batch 2 Submarine to Feature both AIP and Li-Ion Batteries - Naval News

Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) is currently building the third submarine of the KSS-III Batch 1 project in partnership with Daewoo Shipbuilding Maritime Engineering (DSME) Naval News learned at MADEX 2021 in Busan, South Korea.

www.navalnews.com

And 9 days on soryu subs lithium-ion. (Estimated)

Performance Table, Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) vs Lead-acid Batteries (LABs)

A professional level blog on strategic matters, especially submarines (nuclear and conventional) in English, Hindi & most other major languages.

gentleseas.blogspot.com

There is a decent argument for fully Li-ion subs like Japan vs the AIP + Li-ion subs from Korea. We aren't looking to launch SLBMs like Korea and the extra power from fully Li-ion might be better than the longer fully submerged duration of AIP.

Windchime · Oct 22, 2023

this is crunch said:
they comparing it by directly put the Type 214 without any censor or an alias name, brave move Naval Group

also, in previous discussion about AIP vs Li-Ion Battery, we forgot to discuss one thing, a submarine with Li-Ion Battery, have comparable submerge endurance with current conventional AIP, BUT, even if the battery is run out, the can simply recharge it by doing snorkel manoeuvres and having another AIP-long submerge duration, until the main vessel fuel runs out.

Meanwhile if AIP runs out of it's fuel (pure hydrogen and cryogenated oxigen), they have to refuel it to the base or any base who have the facility to refuel those gasses, or else having AIP modules but no fuel just the same as conventional diesel electric subs, like Nagapasa.

No, the overall energy density of an PEM AIP system is still higher than Li-ion battery ESS meaning that AIP will still have more endurance. That is basically the only reason PEM AIPs are still used world wide. The Italians are also going PEM AIP + Li-ion with their 212 NFS. Also it should be accounted if the batter in use is LFP or NCA/NMA. Only with SSB will Li-ion truly catch up to current PEM AIP system energy density.

Also, you guys are all talking about advancement in Li-ion energy density while completely disregarding AIP energy density improvements.

Different hydrogen storage technologies were in development for as long as Li-ion batteries developments. There are different approaches out there and there are a lot of room for growth in terms of hydrogen density. For NG it would have been easy to say that pure Li-ion without AIP is the future since all their sales effort for their own AIP designs (MESMA and FC2G) have failed. They almost sold Attack class equipped with FC2G to Australia but that deal fell through and their next hope, India is going to use their own AIP system. Riachuelo-class is also conventional diesel-electric. So it's understandable that they might think, that making more investment into a Scorpene variant with FC2G doesn't makes much sense for now, unless they could find a customer that could foot the bill.

Most importantly, the base-model NG are offering to the Dutch for the Walrus class replacement program is a Shortfin Barracuda with both the AIP and Li-ion battery, so it's rather a lie if they are saying that going purely Li-ion truly is a superior design choice compared to an AIP-equipped sub. It's more of a financial consideration.

Afif said:
What is the deal with lithium ion battery? Japan totally abandoned AIP in their new Teigei boats.
Does that mean with Lithium ion battery you can stay submerged for 25-30 days?

Japan was using Swedish sterling AIP design which didn't fully suit their operational needs. So for them it was an easier choice to ditch AIP and go full Li-ion.

Windchime · Oct 22, 2023

this is crunch said:
I'm a bit skeptical towards this programme, there is just too many works need to be done to make it feasible for operational use, i think there is 2 main argument from me about this very ship.

1. Learning from the past, TNI AL couldn't afford the financial burden to operate such thirsty fuel gas-turbine engine for ships and its waterjet propeller. And also its problematic gearbox system become real nightmare if not replaced with conventional one. What's the use of having something that's not even useful to its original operator.

For the case of waterjet propeller,it's already happened with KRI Karang Tekok, on that ship, the 4 waterjet propeller needs to be replaced with conventional 2 shafted propeller to reduce operational cost. It was such thirsty machine, the quad prop-jet drinks abt 2 tonne diesel fuel per hour, compared to after refit with conventional 2 shaft propeller which they says reduce it significantly to 2 tonne fuel per day (on that very ship).

Dikaramkan Rudal Exocet MM40 Block 3, Inilah Riwayat KRI Karang Tekok 982

Setelah dua tahun dalam penantian, akhirnya riwayat eks KRI Karang Tekok 982 telah berakhir pada hari Jumat, 30 Juni 2023, yakni setelah rudal anti kapal Exocet MM40 Block 3 yang diluncurkan dari KRI I Gusti Ngurah Rai 332 dengan telak menghancurkan eks KRI Karang Tekok 982 yang disiapkan...

www.indomiliter.com

2. The mission package is very "patrol ship" than a corvette or light frigate, no hull mounted sonar, no torpedo launcher, no AShM, and no VLS for AA missile.

Unless MoD really want this very ship to fill the gap, and prepared the budget and time for those repair-refit-upgrade, then i could say less.

But if they buy it as is, i personally highly oppose that decision.

First off, the congress is blocking any further LCS retirement the USN is requesting, so it's unlikely all to begin with that there would be an LCS that could be sold to other countries, including Indonesia. Also, they are a future back-bone of USN MCM. LCS is basically replacing every USN MCM and minehunter ships.

Also, the gearbox problem for the Freedom class ships are already fixed. Those which were equipped with faulty gearboxes are having it replaced.

No, it's not a patrol ship. It's a ship that is meant to operate within hostile littorals to begin with. It has no hull mounted sonar, but was supposed to have an ASW package. The problem is that the ASW package is cancelled mainly due to difficulties with the development of VDS and now the ASW role has been transferred to Constellation-class. It will be equipped with NSM as part of LCS Lethality and Survivability Upgrade. Independence class will also receive a new CMS (common with Freedom) and both classes will be equipped with ne EW package (SEWIP Lite). It is also possible to equip one of the ASuW multi mission bay with Mk.41. It's really the matter of what USN wants.

satria · Oct 25, 2023

TNI AL Develops "Kamikaze Drone" as Mainstay Weapon

This was expressed by KSAL Ali when reviewing the IT Exhibition of the final seminar for student officers (Pasis) regular education (Dikreg) of the 61st batch of the Indonesian Navy Command and Staff College in 2023 at the Yos Soedarso Building Auditorium, Seskoal Command Headquarters (Mako), Kebayoran Lama, Jakarta South, Monday (23/10/2023).

"In this final seminar, there was an extraordinary thing built by the 61st Force of Pasis Dikreg Seskoal, namely they created a kamikaze drone. "This Kamikaze maritime drone can later be utilized and its capabilities developed to be used as one of the mainstay weapons for the Indonesian Navy," said Ali in a press release from the Indonesian Navy's Information Service (Dispenal), Tuesday (24/10/2023).

Dispenal's press release stated that the kamikaze drone is a multi-purpose drone that can be used as an auxiliary element for coastal patrols at TNI AL Posts (Posal) and TNI AL Bases (Lanal).

Kamikaze drones can be used as target fire in aerial and anti-drone strike drills.

TNI AL Kembangkan "Drone Kamikaze" sebagai Senjata Andalan

TNI AL ingin memaksimalkan drone atau kendaraan nirawak dan alat-alat siber untuk menghadapi ancaman hibrida.

nasional.kompas.com

satria · Oct 25, 2023

The Indonesian Navy receives the domestically designed 'Yapero' patrol boat

Thus, the domestic component level (TKDN) of the Patkamla Yapero Ship reached 45 percent.

"45 percent, once again we have to buy machines (from abroad, ed.), isn't it difficult there? If you can do the machine yourself, (TKDN) can do it 100 percent. Previously, steel, to make it bulletproof, we have to buy it. The others in all countries," said Wakasal.

He said the new ship was placed to patrol the waters around Timika, Papua. This means that the ship is under the auspices of Koarmada III, precisely under the ranks of the Main Rank of the Indonesian Navy (Lantamal) XI Merauke.

"As we all know, the intensity of the danger there is quite high. Later we will patrol the rivers in Papua. Hopefully it will be useful. This person dares to fight in the river because he is bulletproof, equipped with weapons," said Laksdya Heri.

The Patkamla Yapero ship is 18.3 meters long, 4.2 meters wide, and is capable of sailing at a maximum speed of 35 knots, a cruising speed of 35 knots and an economical speed of 15 knots.

The ship's fuel capacity is 3,600 liters, while the fresh water tank capacity is 300 liters. The Patkamla Yapero ship can accommodate accommodation for seven crew and 14 personnel.

The ship is also equipped with a Furuno type 1835 radar, a Voyager magnetic compass and a Furuno type FCV-688 echo sounder. The ship is also equipped with one 12.7 mm and two 7.62 mm guns.

TNI AL terima kapal patroli 'Yapero' dirancang dalam negeri

TNI Angkatan Laut menerima satu unit kapal patroli keamanan laut (patkamla) yang diberi nama "Yapero" yang keseluruhan desain-nya dirancang di dalam ...

www.antaranews.com