TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[IC3M@N FX]

TAI KAAN as a 5+ generation fighter would have to have an engine of at least 18000 lbf to remain competitive, in principle 80 kn dry and 36000 lbf 160 kn with an afterburner.
I don't know whether our engineers will be able to achieve this so easily in 6-8 years - that's a lot.
Is the TEI TF 6000 engine already installed in the Anka 3 prototype?

 

[BaburKhan]

TAI KAAN as a 5+ generation fighter would have to have an engine of at least 18000 lbf to remain competitive, in principle 80 kn dry and 36000 lbf 160 kn with an afterburner.
I don't know whether our engineers will be able to achieve this so easily in 6-8 years - that's a lot.
Is the TEI TF 6000 engine already installed in the Anka 3 prototype?

As far I know they use an ukrainian Engine, TF-6000 will be integrated later. I think also the serial Production Anka-3 will use the ukrainian Engine.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TAI KAAN as a 5+ generation fighter would have to have an engine of at least 18000 lbf to remain competitive, in principle 80 kn dry and 36000 lbf 160 kn with an afterburner.
I don't know whether our engineers will be able to achieve this so easily in 6-8 years - that's a lot.
Is the TEI TF 6000 engine already installed in the Anka 3 prototype?

First of all, it has to be known that the engine that is named in the media as TF35000, is being developed for KAAN as a high dry thrust engine. Since the TEI MD himself announced that TEI could develop an engine similar to F119, we automatically expect a 26000lbf dry thrust and 35000lbf wet thrust from the engine being developed.
This is commensurate with the requirement of high supercruise capability expectation from KAAN as well.
If we are aiming for a developed engine version of the F110 that is powering the KAAN at the moment, then an engine like F110GE129EFE that develops 19000lbf dry thrust and 32000lbf wet thrust is already well within the TEI capability as they are already producing many a part of this engine and maintaining them in house too.
But if we are to expect 5th generation capability from this plane, then it has to have an engine that is constructed so that it's design is stealthy. It also has to have high enough thrust level to supercruise. To do that it needs atleast 24000lbf dry thrust. So with an engine that has 19000lbf dry thrust it will stay as a very capable 4.5 to even 5th generation plane akin to F35 which also can't sustain supercruise.
The TF35K engine being developed will have many attributes that will put it in to a stealthy engine class. So it is not logical for TEI to develop such an engine with low dry thrust.

When it comes to TF6000; it is a bit of a dilemma as TEI shared a picture of the engine they are building ; and it is TF10000. Not TF6000.
This brings to mind the possibility of using it on supersonic version of KE.
We are anxiously awaiting the first firing of this engine.

 

[Scott Summers]

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines

According to the diplomat, it is important for both Ukraine and Turkey to develop a mutually beneficial working model of cooperation, as well as restrictions in order to avoid entering of co-produced products to russia.

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines | Defense Express

Ukraine and Turkey continue cooperation even in context of the russia-Ukraine war. Ukrainian manufacturers participate in tenders to supply Turkish TAI KAAN fifth-generation fighter aircraft with engines

en.defence-ua.com

 

[B_A]

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines

According to the diplomat, it is important for both Ukraine and Turkey to develop a mutually beneficial working model of cooperation, as well as restrictions in order to avoid entering of co-produced products to russia.

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines | Defense Express

Ukraine and Turkey continue cooperation even in context of the russia-Ukraine war. Ukrainian manufacturers participate in tenders to supply Turkish TAI KAAN fifth-generation fighter aircraft with engines

en.defence-ua.com

What engine can they provide to KAAN?

 

[Scott Summers]

What engine can they provide to KAAN?

I am not sure.

"In fact, we are interested in everything related to the defense industry. Our companies participate in tenders to supply Turkish KAAN fighter with engines. Our engines are used in projects of the Kizılma unmanned fighter, the Akıncı and Anka-3 combat drones, as well as the T929 Atak II helicopter," Vasyl Bodnar said.

 

[Khagan1923]

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines

According to the diplomat, it is important for both Ukraine and Turkey to develop a mutually beneficial working model of cooperation, as well as restrictions in order to avoid entering of co-produced products to russia.

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines | Defense Express

Ukraine and Turkey continue cooperation even in context of the russia-Ukraine war. Ukrainian manufacturers participate in tenders to supply Turkish TAI KAAN fifth-generation fighter aircraft with engines

en.defence-ua.com

After @Anmdt mentioned how the Ukrainians seem to behave when it comes to the procurement of engines and other things working with them to develop an engine for Kaan might be a mistake.

 

[Kartal1]

After @Anmdt mentioned how the Ukrainians seem to behave when it comes to the procurement of engines and other things working with them to develop an engine for Kaan might be a mistake.

Even if we want I doubt they would be able to supply a critical input to the KAAN engine development. What we are looking for is state of the art modern technology.

They can assist us with ready to procure engines for now in different projects as they did till now, but nothing more. The years pass by and we are making progress.

 

[Khagan1923]

Even if we want I doubt they would be able to supply a critical input to the KAAN engine development. What we are looking for is state of the art modern technology.

They can assist us with ready to procure engines for now in different projects as they did till now, but nothing more. The years pass by and we are making progress.

Agree but even if they were able to, they have shown not to be trustworthy. And who is to say they won't "sabotage" the project if so pressured by the EU or the US?

Before I take that path I rather just sign a deal with RR to develop an Engine for Kaan honestly.

IMO we have two choices.

1. Trust in TEI and their Engineers to pull of a miracle in regards to the given timeline and develop and start mass producing an 5th gen engine in the next 4-6 years.

2. Sign a deal with RR to co-develop an 5th gen engine for Kaan and hope we can get an good deal in regards to license and exports permissions.

I would choose two. Our Air Force is in no place to accept delays on a crucial project, we don't have any assurances that the US won't just suddenly halt the delivery of F110 engines once Kaan is LRIP ready. I know TEI/TAI wants to produce the F110 in house but I think that is unlikely to happen. And the US won't greenlight a huge order of engines (~100), at least I don't expect them to.

And the given reason will be that Kaan entering service in a large number (36-48) will sway the balance in the region immensly on Türkiye's side.

Priority should be to deliver an almost indigenous aircraft to our Air Force. Exports can take a second place to that, and I think most people here will agree.

There is also the third option we don't mention often.

3. TEI develops an F110 copy (And no I am not meaning just copying the engine) as this would take less time and maybe could fit into the given timeline of having the engine be ready for 2028-2030.

On this point the question would be, how much would an inferior engine (compared to engines like the F135, F119) hinder the performance of Kaan in regards to Stealth, EW and Combat.


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THY signed a huge deal with RR for its newly ordered Airbus fleet. I think something has to give here or else we are left, again, with nothing.

 

[B_A]

Agree but even if they were able to, they have shown not to be trustworthy. And who is to say they won't "sabotage" the project if so pressured by the EU or the US?

Before I take that path I rather just sign a deal with RR to develop an Engine for Kaan honestly.

IMO we have two choices.

1. Trust in TEI and their Engineers to pull of a miracle in regards to the given timeline and develop and start mass producing an 5th gen engine in the next 4-6 years.

2. Sign a deal with RR to co-develop an 5th gen engine for Kaan and hope we can get an good deal in regards to license and exports permissions.

I would choose two. Our Air Force is in no place to accept delays on a crucial project, we don't have any assurances that the US won't just suddenly halt the delivery of F110 engines once Kaan is LRIP ready. I know TEI/TAI wants to produce the F110 in house but I think that is unlikely to happen. And the US won't greenlight a huge order of engines (~100), at least I don't expect them to.

And the given reason will be that Kaan entering service in a large number (36-48) will sway the balance in the region immensly on Türkiye's side.

Priority should be to deliver an almost indigenous aircraft to our Air Force. Exports can take a second place to that, and I think most people here will agree.

There is also the third option we don't mention often.

3. TEI develops an F110 copy (And no I am not meaning just copying the engine) as this would take less time and maybe could fit into the given timeline of having the engine be ready for 2028-2030.

On this point the question would be, how much would an inferior engine (compared to engines like the F135, F119) hinder the performance of Kaan in regards to Stealth, EW and Combat.


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THY signed a huge deal with RR for its newly ordered Airbus fleet. I think something has to give here or else we are left, again, with nothing.

I dont think a F110 copy/improved version will have big problem; because the Chinese/Russian 5th generation Jet still using AL-31 series.

 

[Fatman17]

Ukrainian Companies Ready to Provide Turkish Fighters with Engines | Defense Express

Ukraine and Turkey continue cooperation even in context of the russia-Ukraine war. Ukrainian manufacturers participate in tenders to supply Turkish TAI KAAN fifth-generation fighter aircraft with engines

en.defence-ua.com

Ukraine and Turkey to collaborate even during the Russian- Ukraine war is ongoing

 

[uçuyorum]

What's the original source for 16 January flight for Kaan? Hope it's true but I don't see any reputable source

 

[Sanchez]

What's the original source for 16 January flight for Kaan? Hope it's true but I don't see any reputable source

We've heard "in a few weeks", nothing else is semi confirmed now. On 17th and 18th, weather will be nice and calm, if they decide to go then.

 

[Zafer]

Probably the first flight date of Kaan will be the last time a date is given for a flight of a plane as this is actually an iconic moment in the progression of Turkish industry. After this every new launch will look smaller and even trivial.

 

[Spitfire9]

We've heard "in a few weeks", nothing else is semi confirmed now. On 17th and 18th, weather will be nice and calm, if they decide to go then.

Last week Kotil was reported to say FF would be in coming days.

Turkish fighter jet KAAN near final stretch for maiden flight

'Multi-role aircraft KAAN is set to fly in coming days,' says Turkish aircraft maker’s CEO - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Is FF date in the next few days or in the next few weeks? I hear that timing may be governed by a mixture of engineering and political factors. I suppose that delaying to fly on a particularly important day politically will not make any significant difference to the development timeline.

I'm looking forward to seeing KAAN fly.

When are prototypes no 2 and no 3 scheduled for roll out?

 

[Rodeo]

Last week Kotil was reported to say FF would be in coming days.

Turkish fighter jet KAAN near final stretch for maiden flight

'Multi-role aircraft KAAN is set to fly in coming days,' says Turkish aircraft maker’s CEO - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Is FF date in the next few days or in the next few weeks? I hear that timing may be governed by a mixture of engineering and political factors. I suppose that delaying to fly on a particularly important day politically will not make any significant difference to the development timeline.

I'm looking forward to seeing KAAN fly.

When are prototypes no 2 and no 3 scheduled for roll out?

Jan 16th for the first flight was not given by Kotil. It was a newspaper claimed that would be the date for FF. And there was no confirmation.

Second prototype is in assembly phase and is to roll-out mid 2024. It will be slightly different than this one, will have more detailed cuts and more subsystems integrated to it.

The third prototype is also in production but not in as advanced state as the second prototype.

 

[DBdev]

Weather will be much better last week of march. January February are the worst possible months for a critical, national pride at stake, first flight test.

 

[TR_123456]

If that thing doesnt fly this week,i will kill someone!!!!!!!

 

[Spitfire9]

Weather will be much better last week of march. January February are the worst possible months for a critical, national pride at stake, first flight test.

Sure, but how much of a good weather window is required? I would think that a forecast 48 hour good weather window would allow time to organise in advance and fly on one of those 2 days. I remember watching the Boeing 777X sit on the runway for its first flight, abandon FF due to weather then fly later that day/the next day.

 

[Zafer]

I guess it should be partially cloudy at worst to be considered a good weather for a first flight so no luck in the next 5 days I guess.

TAI Campus 5 day weather forecast