TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Zafer]

Ok, let's assume that the TB3 has located a Rafaele, a Eurofighter or an F-16 and launched the BVR missile.
The missile has missed the target, i.e. the enemy has used decoy maneuvers including decoys and prevented the launch.
Now the enemy fires his missile and now find the weak point in your concept.

If the drone doesn't hit the target with the first missile, then it's gone.
Apart from that, where does it say that TB3 is the first to locate the fighter aircraft?
If the enemy has the drone in the radar, the drone is also gone.

Too many assumptions, imagine the fear factor the jet pilot will be engulfed in, a fearless flying robot appearing out of nowhere can shoot him down any moment.

 

[Zafer]

TB3 swarm engages helpless fighter

 

[Aqerdf]

The Sungur integration is meant for other targets, why modern fighter jets have become a fixated object, i don't understand...

 

[Rodeo]

Too many assumptions, imagine the fear factor the jet pilot will be engulfed in, a fearless flying robot appearing out of nowhere can shoot him down any moment.

To strike fear into pilot is only possible with fighter UCAVs like KIZILELMA with high situational awareness and advanced sensor fusion(not in this decade imho). That is if you consider them as a standalone platform. If your solution is network-centric then it doesn't matter if it's TB3 or any other random node on the network that carrying the AA missiles. It could be a drone, a helicopter, a ship and whatnot. It just needs to be at the right place.

 

[Zafer]

To strike fear into pilot is only possible with fighter UCAVs like KIZILELMA with high situational awareness and advanced sensor fusion(not in this decade imho). That is if you consider them as a standalone platform. If your solution is network-centric then it doesn't matter if it's TB3 or any other random node on the network that carrying the AA missiles. It could be a drone, a helicopter, a ship and whatnot. It just needs to be at the right place.

Hence the TB3 Ambush Master

With AESA radars, optical sensors and possible other detectors TB3 holds the capability to strike when an opportunity presents itself. Compared to ships and helicopters it is high up in the sky and can see further even with its own sensors and can use shorter range missiles to engage as it is likely to be closer to the target.

 

[boredaf]

The Sungur integration is meant for other targets, why modern fighter jets are became a fixated object i don't understand...

Because some people love bad mouthing almost anything that is being done and this is just one more way of doing that, quite disingenuously if I might add. Some hate Baykar, others hate the government (two types are almost a whole circle in a Venn diagram) and few others, I bet, are just cosplaying as Turkish people interested in defence industry and military.

 

[YeşilVatan]

It's clear that Sungur equipped TB-3s would target kamikaze drones and maybe other MALE UAVs.

 

[Nutuk]

TB3s with 2 Bozdoğan can shoot down a few cruise missiles at least I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I doubt that a 140kg Bozdogan missile can be carried on the wing of TB-3.

There are plans for the Sungur missile but I have not seen any plans for Bozdogan. Is it a wishful thinking?

 

[Zafer]

140kg maybe too heavy, they should make one around 115kg.

 

[Aqerdf]

Akdoğan, maybe air launched Levent...

 

[Hasanrize]

You didn't even know that TB3 is already meant to be equipped with an AESA radar before you assert your argument.

The engine of those missiles runs for a few seconds then it goes to the target with its inertia. Because of this, a faster launching platform means more range, also altitudes of the launching platform and target affect the range significantly. Because of those issues, a drone that flies at 5000 meters at 250 km/h speed has no chance against a fighter flying at 12000 meters at 1250 km/h speed.

This has nothing to do with Radar, you can even target the fighter with AWACS and launch missiles from drones like Akıncı but after all those speed and altitude differences are the determining factors here. I am not even talking about maneuverability onboard EW, just that the jet will have a significant range of advantages. Also given the payload capacity, drones will not be able to carry long-range missiles as they are heavier.

Sungur-equipped drones will be very effective against cruise missiles, other drones, and kamikaze drones. When sungur-equipped drones are flying over the sea, it will be more difficult for enemies to do anti-submarine operations since those will be threats to helicopters. You can find plenty of use for those systems, but why you are always trying to hunt enemy fighters with those things? We are developing MMU and Akıncı for that purpose.

 

[Zafer]

The drone has 10 times the endurance as the jet; It will hide in the sky and ambush the unsuspecting prey, like a spider who sets a net and feeds on the flying fly.

 

[boredaf]

It is honestly ridiculous to even discuss TB2/3 or Anka, any of our other MALE drone going up against a jet. Unless it is a freak incident, like when a Russian jet tried to down a TB2 in its wake turbulence, it simply isn't going to happen.

What a MALE drone with a2a missiles can target is: other MALE or HALE drones, helicopters that ventured too far from anti-air protection, (depending on the radar and targeting) maybe slow moving cruise missiles and big kamikaze drones. Now, we obviously have other anti-air measures against all those targets but that is where the term "layered air defence" comes in. A drone with a2a missiles is just another layer of protection on top of the existing ones.

It is like a "better safe than sorry" approach to air defence, drones are not that expensive and missiles like Sungur are relatively cheap, so why not have one more layer when we can easily do it?

 

[UkroTurk]

We just need the new concept of subsonic, jet powered, maneuver UAV for the above mentioned missions as well as CAS!

Good to know that i am not alone

 

[Zafer]

We just need the new concept of subsonic, jet powered, maneuver UAV for the above mentioned missions as well as CAS!

Good to know that i am not alone
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You need small high bypass turbofan engines for this. I think TR Motor will make them at some point.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Akdoğan, maybe air launched Levent...

Actually I made LEVENT yesterday, certainly should do it


But I certainly welcome downsized Bozdoğan/Akdoğan option more. Former is built on a layout that is proven to have staggering manueverability.

 

[Anmdt]

I doubt that a 140kg Bozdogan missile can be carried on the wing of TB-3.

There are plans for the Sungur missile but I have not seen any plans for Bozdogan. Is it a wishful thinking?

They were showing twin streamlined Sungur ATAS earlier (simply streamlining and integrating the available launcher mounted to Yalman) and now made it down to 1 with a blunt pylon integration and no streamlined cover, i wonder why.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Yeah, I even made my TB2 and AKINCI w SUNGUR illusturation with that twin launcher back in my time with defence turk. I guess they want it to serve as a side weapon on outer pylons.

 

[Trakya_forever]

There is no ground to discuss TB3 against fighter jets. It is ridiculuous. However, two or three years later,we can discuss KE vs 4 and 4+ class fighters. KE will be a never ending process for the next ten years. With a small AESA and Sungur you can hunt other drones and helicopters by TB3. Thats all.

 

[Nutuk]

You guys underestimate drones like ANKA-3 and KE.

They may now not ready yet to face 5th gen. but realize that development of drones go much much faster than development of fighter jets.

Within several years they can become the menace of any jet, and can become evenly stealth as those $100mln fighter jets.

TB-3 is build for endurance, flies slow but stays in the air for long. In short build for other purposes