Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Gundala]

Let US bring their latest bit, if it isn't good enough, just kick them out, his days in office are numbered anyway

While others look at it different way considering Luhut went to China while Prabowo in US, I saw this as a good move from out part. The "sound" of Raffale and Typhoon while doing the negotiation with US also tell us something, not to mention the "leak" of our Junior fighter pilot using Sukhoi simulator in Russia. Specially with the trip to Japan pursuing our SWF plan which might start first month of 2021. By this we have a bit more leverage to get the fund from other sources thus reducing abit US diplomacy weight on it. If all was planned as cumulative move by our Govt then Im very impress! Havent seen this kind of colective coordinated diplomacy move in decades from our part regardless what the result might be.

Let them do their work and we all can give our oppinion once all the dust has been settled.

 

[Madokafc]

I wouldn't get my hopes up on the Rafale to be honest. It's the most expensive out of the 3 options, as well as the costliest to operate once you factor in weapons and equipment.

Prabowo can scream all he wants, it's KemenKeu that has the final say.

He got the nod from Kemenkeu after lobbying her, since July she is giving green light to Prabowo to find whatever weapon system he deemed suitable using foreign loan scheme, that's why he can get leeway for many thing lately.

Sri Mulyani Singgung Prabowo soal Belanja Alutsista

"Bagaimana dengan pak Prabowo, Menteri Pertahanan apakah penting untuk membuat alutsista kita kuat? Iya penting," ujar Sri Mulyani.

finance.detik.com

 

[Chestnut]

I

He got the nod from Kemenkeu after lobbying her, since July she is giving green light to Prabowo to find whatever weapon system he deemed suitable using foreign loan scheme, that's why he can get leeway for many thing lately.

Sri Mulyani Singgung Prabowo soal Belanja Alutsista

"Bagaimana dengan pak Prabowo, Menteri Pertahanan apakah penting untuk membuat alutsista kita kuat? Iya penting," ujar Sri Mulyani.

finance.detik.com

It's not the foreign loan scheme, SMI is not dumb.

If she sees how much it is to operate all the planes that he wants she can immediately pull the plug on the whole plan.

You can't fund your Air Force's operational costs on loans, you can only use those loans for procurement. And the current Air Force budget simply could not support being able to operate all those planes, and I very much doubt that they would be willing to triple the budget at the expense of the Army and Navy.

 

[Umigami]

I

It's not the foreign loan scheme, SMI is not dumb.

If she sees how much it is to operate all the planes that he wants she can immediately pull the plug on the whole plan.

You can't fund your Air Force's operational costs on loans, you can only use those loans for procurement. And the current Air Force budget simply could not support being able to operate all those planes, and I very much doubt that they would be willing to triple the budget at the expense of the Army and Navy.

IF....

Is it gonna be a dead sentence for sukhoi fleet?

 

[Madokafc]

I

It's not the foreign loan scheme, SMI is not dumb.

If she sees how much it is to operate all the planes that he wants she can immediately pull the plug on the whole plan.

You can't fund your Air Force's operational costs on loans, you can only use those loans for procurement.

That's onus is from Prabowo side as he is successfully lobbying Kemenkeu to let him using foreign loan scheme (a very large ones in scale since Nasution mission to Moscow in 1960) , for the operational costs problem that's should be his problem to solving that, not me to answer on his behalf.

 

[San.geuk]

i think MoF known between procurement cost and operational cost, but perhaps the operational cost included in lifetime sustainable cost as whole package, but somehow this urge of situation in north natuna made MoF have to agree with MoD

 

[adenl]

Indonesian military procurement never ceases to amaze me

 

[Madokafc]

Indonesian military procurement never ceases to amaze me

Been like this since 60s decades

 

[Parry Brima]

While others look at it different way considering Luhut went to China while Prabowo in US, I saw this as a good move from out part. The "sound" of Raffale and Typhoon while doing the negotiation with US also tell us something, not to mention the "leak" of our Junior fighter pilot using Sukhoi simulator in Russia. Specially with the trip to Japan pursuing our SWF plan which might start first month of 2021. By this we have a bit more leverage to get the fund from other sources thus reducing abit US diplomacy weight on it. If all was planned as cumulative move by our Govt then Im very impress! Havent seen this kind of colective coordinated diplomacy move in decades from out part regardless what the result might be.

Let them do their work and we all can give our oppinion once all the dust has been settled.

You're expecting the U.S. would give up and give us F-35 after this "colective coordinated diplomacy move"? Way too optimistic. The offer will still be about F-16V and SHornet Block III.

 

[Umigami]

You're expecting the U.S. would give up and give us F-35 after this "colective coordinated diplomacy move"? Way too optimistic. The offer will still be about F-16V and SHornet Block III.

Just let them bring their offer, if they can't impress our MoD, he'll choose Rafale (& typhoon), that's it. Simple!

 

[trishna_amrta]

agree , if rafale goes through (im betting we got either 16 or 24 of them) , there's no point to keep the sukhoi , or just use them as an aggressor squadron for training purpose , that could also mean we are started to get serious on KF-X (since they use european weaponry).

IS there any other option for KF-X weapons? I extremely doubt our gov't willing to footing additional fund for additional weapon integration

Interesting, how could TNI AU manage the maintenance issue and the supporting ground crew?

That is the billions $ question

While others look at it different way considering Luhut went to China while Prabowo in US, I saw this as a good move from out part. The "sound" of Raffale and Typhoon while doing the negotiation with US also tell us something, not to mention the "leak" of our Junior fighter pilot using Sukhoi simulator in Russia. Specially with the trip to Japan pursuing our SWF plan which might start first month of 2021. By this we have a bit more leverage to get the fund from other sources thus reducing abit US diplomacy weight on it. If all was planned as cumulative move by our Govt then Im very impress! Havent seen this kind of colective coordinated diplomacy move in decades from out part regardless what the result might be.

Let them do their work and we all can give our oppinion once all the dust has been settled.

IMO you nailed the gold point there.

IF....

Is it gonna be a dead sentence for sukhoi fleet?

Let's hope MoD intent to getting rid of the Sukhoi fleet

Indonesian military procurement never ceases to amaze me

That surprised you? You should see how Indonesia municipal gov't spend money in useless stuffs just for the sake of spending money. Even then they till haven't managed to fully spend the money, thus oblige to return the unspent money to the national gov't.

 

[trishna_amrta]

You're expecting the U.S. would give up and give us F-35 after this "colective coordinated diplomacy move"? Way too optimistic. The offer will still be about F-16V and SHornet Block III.

The F-35 was bluff. There is no way US will allow Indonesia getting any F-35 in the near term. I perceived that MoD also bluff his way with the Rafale to get a better deal out of the Viper. Not sure about the SuperBug though, it seems Trance 1 look like a real possibility

 

[Parry Brima]

The F-35 was bluff. There is no way US will allow Indonesia getting any F-35 in the near term. I perceived that MoD also bluff his way with the Rafale to get a better deal out of the Viper. Not sure about the SuperBug though, it seems Trance 1 look like a real possibility

But what's the endgame? If it's meant to be a "collective coordinated diplomacy move" then surely it's gotta have an endgame.

If he really wants F-16V then he'd have said yes from the beginning. No need for platform introduction, competitive price, the best CPFH in the world, etc. All I'm saying is the pros are too obvious to be rejected.

If he really wants double engine then SHornet is his best option. It's ultra reliable. It's the cheapest among its peers. It's also maritime fighter so it suits our needs to the tee. What's there not to like?

In terms of payment terms, CMIIW, but doesn't paying through FMS scheme basically mean very soft payment term for us? I'm not sure this is about money.

Is it possible that this team that Trump will send won't be about fighter at all?

 

[Agent_G]

While others look at it different way considering Luhut went to China while Prabowo in US, I saw this as a good move from out part. The "sound" of Raffale and Typhoon while doing the negotiation with US also tell us something, not to mention the "leak" of our Junior fighter pilot using Sukhoi simulator in Russia. Specially with the trip to Japan pursuing our SWF plan which might start first month of 2021. By this we have a bit more leverage to get the fund from other sources thus reducing abit US diplomacy weight on it. If all was planned as cumulative move by our Govt then Im very impress! Havent seen this kind of colective coordinated diplomacy move in decades from out part regardless what the result might be.

Let them do their work and we all can give our oppinion once all the dust has been settled.

Rayuan Maut Luhut, Jepang Mau Tanam Rp 57 T di Dana Abadi RI

Luhut dan Erick berhasil meyakinkan JBIC untuk membantu penyuntikan dana pembentukan Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF).

www.cnbcindonesia.com

 

[Chestnut]

If he really wants F-16V then he'd have said yes from the beginning. No need for platform introduction, competitive price, the best CPFH in the world, etc. All I'm saying is the pros are too obvious to be rejected.

If he really wants double engine then SHornet is his best option. It's ultra reliable. It's the cheapest among its peers. It's also maritime fighter so it suits our needs to the tee. What's there not to like?

Neither would give him political points for another Presidential run.

 

[Madokafc]

But what's the endgame? If it's meant to be a "collective coordinated diplomacy move" then surely it's gotta have an endgame.

If he really wants F-16V then he'd have said yes from the beginning. No need for platform introduction, competitive price, the best CPFH in the world, etc. All I'm saying is the pros are too obvious to be rejected.

If he really wants double engine then SHornet is his best option. It's ultra reliable. It's the cheapest among its peers. It's also maritime fighter so it suits our needs to the tee. What's there not to like?

In terms of payment terms, CMIIW, but doesn't paying through FMS scheme basically mean very soft payment term for us? I'm not sure this is about money.

Is it possible that this team that Trump will send won't be about fighter at all?

Honestly i am doesn't know much about what Trump like to offer at this point when no less than French own MoD said the deal is almost being closed and obviously Prabowo like to ditch F16V offer and Prabowo himself well known Francophile and had great connection among European military circle compared to the US establishment.

Other Advance US Made products is a lot, like Patriot Missiles, Boeing P8A, series of Air Defense Missiles like Standard series, ESSM, Abrams M1 MBT, MRAP, Military Trucks, APC, radar system, UAV and UCAV, Heavy artillery, MLRS system, AWACS, AEW, ECM, Helicopters, Attack Helicopters, ATGM and so on.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Honestly i am doesn't know much about what Trump like to offer at this point when no less than French own MoD said the deal is almost being closed and obviously Prabowo like to ditch F16V offer and Prabowo himself well known Francophile and had great connection among European military circle compared to the US establishment.

Other Advance US Made products is a lot, like Patriot Missiles, Boeing P8A, series of Air Defense Missiles like Standard series, ESSM, Abrams M1 MBT, MRAP, Military Trucks, APC, radar system, UAV and UCAV, Heavy artillery, MLRS system, AWACS, AEW, ECM, Helicopters, Attack Helicopters, ATGM and so on.

Anything that can reliably branded as "Buy American, Hire American" #MAGA
My best guess is, they will offer the same items but with more lucrative financing & offset

 

[Umigami]

Honestly i am doesn't know much about what Trump like to offer at this point when no less than French own MoD said the deal is almost being closed and obviously Prabowo like to ditch F16V offer and Prabowo himself well known Francophile and had great connection among European military circle compared to the US establishment.

Other Advance US Made products is a lot, like Patriot Missiles, Boeing P8A, series of Air Defense Missiles like Standard series, ESSM, Abrams M1 MBT, MRAP, Military Trucks, APC, radar system, UAV and UCAV, Heavy artillery, MLRS system, AWACS, AEW, ECM, Helicopters, Attack Helicopters, ATGM and so on.

Anything that can reliably branded as "Buy American, Hire American" #MAGA
My best guess is, they will offer the same items but with more lucrative financing & offset

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334996152026972161

Whichever procurement US and European face each other?
Fighter, medium SAM, heavy lift helicopter, air tanker, aew&c, what else?

 

[Madokafc]

From lembaga keris, 30 Billion rupiah to prolong usage time of Russian Made Missiles in Air Force inventory

 

[Ravager]

We are talking about prabowo here . He never take a half measures .... Either he go big or go home . And truthfully , i kind of dreaded on the measure of his scale ...