TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Afif]

KAAN is a success except engines and proven stealth. Anyone denying this is either blind or a liar.

You said something very specific. You claimed that-

KAAN's avionics and actual plane part is done successfully thanks to aeronautical engineer Temel Kotil.

To which @Sanchez replied, 'they most certainly are not.'

Either you engage with the argument or you don't. Indirect name calling is not okay.

KAAN's main sensor MURAD-600A hasn't been fabricated yet. It is still in the critical design phase. Without the actual physical thing, how is it done? And we are not even talking about the extensive testing and validation process yet. This is just one example.

 

[uçuyorum]

KAAN is a success except engines and proven stealth. Anyone denying this is either blind or a liar.

If engineers do not complain about the CEO asking for the impossible all the time then that means the CEO is not doing his job.

For example if everyone in Aselsan loves their ex-CEO because of low production rates and subpar products compared to west does that make Aselsan a big success?

How about THY and TUSAS? Or Apple or any Elon Musk company. The CEOs shouldn't allow subordinates to dictate anything, slow the company down no matter how much they complain or revolt.

Kotil explained this better in Hürjet documentary. I am seeing X posts I am assuming from TUSAS workers about low paychecks compared to western companies and too much hard work under Kotil.

I hope the new CEO won't be another Haluk Görgün. Someone that sets a low bar or doesn't set one at all to please his underlings. I am talking about abysmal export numbers of Aselsan under him. İsmail Demir started hundreds of projects what did Haluk Görgün start since he took over SSB? Anyone? Where is the million FPVs a year project from SSB for example? What is he waiting for?

Turns out engineers are human and need to go home and see their families sometimes. You need to balance it, human are the most valuable resource to the company, if you overwork and burn then out quickly you don't have a sustainable business, and experienced workers can't just be replaced by newcomers like that. It's a tough balancing act.

 

[DBdev]

You said something very specific. You claimed that-


Which to @Sanchez replied, 'they most certainly are not.'

Either you engage with the argument or you don't. Indirect name calling is not okay.

KAAN's main sensor MURAD-600A hasn't been fabricated yet. It is still in the critical design phase. Without the actual physical thing, how is it done? We are not even talking about the extensive testing and validation process. And this is just one example.

I obviously didn't mean he personally wrote the avionics code. LOL. But TUSAS and THY existed before him but they never were such big success stories until Kotil started asking for the impossible first in THY and then TUSAS. Engineers come and go. I am writing this as a software engineer. Companies can't worry about workers too much. Someone with low pain threshold or drive might quit, let him so that a better hungrier newcomer can take his place.

Go watch Elon Musk Mars project speech. You can't balance work and your other hobbies, interests and even your family if you are working on a critical project. If that is too much for you quit!

 

[DBdev]

KAAN's main sensor MURAD-600A hasn't been fabricated yet. It is still in the critical design phase. Without the actual physical thing, how is it done? And we are not even talking about the extensive testing and validation process yet. This is just one example.

I already said Aselsan isn't being utilized to it's full potential. TUSAS or Kotil isn't responsible for what Aselsan or lesser CEOs failed to do. Am I not writing in plain English? There seems to be some kind of miscommunication.

 

[boredaf]

You said something very specific. You claimed that-


To which @Sanchez replied, 'they most certainly are not.'

Either you engage with the argument or you don't. Indirect name calling is not okay.

KAAN's main sensor MURAD-600A hasn't been fabricated yet. It is still in the critical design phase. Without the actual physical thing, how is it done? And we are not even talking about the extensive testing and validation process yet. This is just one example.

Mate, you're arguing with someone who uses Elon Mush as a positive example in 2024, that should tell you everything you need to know about how this dialogue is going to go. Not to mention if you paid any attention to their posts they have a habit of insulting people directly or indirectly and acting like they are superior because of what they think is right. Just don't waste your time.

 

[Sanchez]

I already said Aselsan isn't being utilized to it's full potential. TUSAS or Kotil isn't responsible for what Aselsan or lesser CEOs failed to do. Am I not writing in plain English? There seems to be some kind of miscommunication.

Aselsan is many things and you probably have a point in utilization but Aselsan is not a private company. It mainly does what SSB tells them to do. Aselsan does everything from gun optics to long range radars and everything else in between. It’s a company like none other and it’s more akin to Raytheon, L3 and Elcan combined. It’s a behemoth, it will never be as flexible. TAI is not that different and they also have their downsides.

 

[Afif]

Aselsan is many things and you probably have a point in utilization but Aselsan is not a private company. It mainly does what SSB tells them to do. Aselsan does everything from gun optics to long range radars and everything else in between. It’s a company like none other and it’s more akin to Raytheon, L3 and Elcan combined. It’s a behemoth, it will never be as flexible. TAI is not that different and they also have their downsides.

I think the most accruate comparison would be, a fully state owned Thales.

 

[DBdev]

I do worry about the future of Turkish defense industry as a whole

First İsmail Demir, Gürcan Okumuş, now Kotil. Anyone who actually does something extraordinary gets targeted. I know very little about new CEO, but who here thinks that İsmail Demir wasn't better at his SSB job?

Also, Turkish RAMjet ambitions disappeared along with Gürcan OKUMUŞ of Tubitak SAGE. I feel like there is yet another classic silent operation against budding Turkish defense industry by NATO collaborators. But I have no actual proof it is just a feeling. Turkish history is my teacher.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1800931890083611028

 

[I_Love_F16]

I think the most accruate comparison would be, a fully state owned Thales.

Aselsan isn’t fully state owned, nearly a quarter of their shares are traded on the BIST (Istanbul Stock Exchange).

 

[Rodeo]

Now the question is if we'll witness any timeline or delivery plan changes for TAI's projects. Will KAAN be delivered in 2028? If so, how many? Will the new CEO reiterate the year 2028 for TF35K's FF? Will he provide a clear roadmap for the helicopter programs? What's the status of test infrastructure investments?

 

[TheInsider]

You guys are chasing the wrong ghosts. Rensselaer Polytechnic lobby removed Temel Kotil. New SSB head has been appointing Rensselaer graduates left and right since he took office.

Prof. Dr. Haluk Gorgun - SSB - Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı / Presidency of Defence Industries | LinkedIn

Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı / Secretary of Turkish… · Experience: SSB - Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı / Presidency of Defence Industries · Location: Türkiye · 500+ connections on LinkedIn. View Prof. Dr. Haluk Gorgun’s profile on LinkedIn, a professional community...

www.linkedin.com

Mehmet Demiroğlu - Chief Executive Officer - Turkish Aerospace | LinkedIn

Chief Executive Officer at Turkish Aerospace · Search & Research · Experience: Turkish Aerospace · Education: Sabancı School of Management · Location: Ankara · 500+ connections on LinkedIn. View Mehmet Demiroğlu’s profile on LinkedIn, a professional community of 1 billion members.

www.linkedin.com

 

[YeşilVatan]

You guys are chasing the wrong ghosts. Rensselaer Polytechnic lobby removed Temel Kotil. New SSB head has been appointing Rensselaer graduates left and right since he took office.

Prof. Dr. Haluk Gorgun - SSB - Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı / Presidency of Defence Industries | LinkedIn

Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı / Secretary of Turkish… · Experience: SSB - Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı / Presidency of Defence Industries · Location: Türkiye · 500+ connections on LinkedIn. View Prof. Dr. Haluk Gorgun’s profile on LinkedIn, a professional community...

www.linkedin.com

Mehmet Demiroğlu - Chief Executive Officer - Turkish Aerospace | LinkedIn

Chief Executive Officer at Turkish Aerospace · Search & Research · Experience: Turkish Aerospace · Education: Sabancı School of Management · Location: Ankara · 500+ connections on LinkedIn. View Mehmet Demiroğlu’s profile on LinkedIn, a professional community of 1 billion members.

www.linkedin.com

Is it really bad, or is it just the new guy shaking things up?

 

[DBdev]

Is it really bad, or is it just the new guy shaking things up?

Nepotism isn't good, is it? If he wanted to shake things up he would actually do something worth talking about other than nepotism. Tells me all I needed to know why not brand new SSB projects have been started up since İsmail Demir. Defense industry sadly is too busy with the diseased pitiful mentality that destroyed Ottoman Empire.

629 out of 20,966

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Ranking (2024) | Top Universities

 

[moz68k]

Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu was a frequent collaborator of Dr. Mahmut Akşit, so he's a turbomachinery guy through and through. He has patents under GE in his name. It might be good for TAI, seeing that most projects' success now revolves around the development of indigenous engines. I'm conflicted though, as Dr. Kotil, warts and all, has always been a visionary. Turkish Airlines, and now TAI, owe a lot to him.

 

[TheInsider]

Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu was a frequent collaborator of Dr. Mahmut Akşit, so he's a turbomachinery guy through and through. He has patents under GE in his name. It might be good for TAI, seeing that most projects' success now revolves around the development of indigenous engines. I'm conflicted though, as Dr. Kotil, warts and all, has always been a visionary. Turkish Airlines, and now TAI, owe a lot to him.

He is a qualified guy there is no doubt about that. He is nothing like the zoo manager who was appointed to some division of Tubitak in the past but there are two things to take notice.
1) He was "vice director" of the helicopter division of TUSAS so he is promoted ahead of people that outrank him and became the general manager of TUSAS. This is a very rare occurrence.
2) Somehow all of the Ranssealer Polytechnic graduates are appointed to higher offices. I won't say they do not have the required qualifications but there are other highly qualified personnel working for those institutions. Why any Ranssealer graduate for example better than a M.I.T. graduate?

 

[boredaf]

Somehow all of the Ranssealer Polytechnic graduates are appointed to higher offices.

Yeah, he is definitely stacking the decks with his alumni, so to speak. I'm really not sure how it is going to turn out for us as I don't believe it is all done because of their merits.

 

[Saithan]

this is politics ppl.

Remember the LOA for F-16 has been signed, guess why Temel got replaced, and guess what's going to happen to the delivery date of KAAN.

 

[boredaf]

this is politics ppl.

Remember the LOA for F-16 has been signed, guess why Temel got replaced, and guess what's going to happen to the delivery date of KAAN.

You're connecting dotes that aren't there mate, there is no conspiracy theory here lol

 

[Saithan]

You're connecting dotes that aren't there mate, there is no conspiracy theory here lol

Maybe, but I don't think that's the case. Also I'm not saying there is a conspiracy,

The VP dude, could just as well have been appointed VP instead of replacing TK even if it meant to give the KAAN project an extra push.

So either TK got tired and quit, or they replaced him for politics.

 

[boredaf]

Maybe, but I don't think that's the case. Also I'm not saying there is a conspiracy,

The VP dude, could just as well have been appointed VP instead of replacing TK even if it meant to give the KAAN project an extra push.

So either TK got tired and quit, or they replaced him for politics.

I mean, it is probably politics but it has nothing to do with the F-16 deal and more to do with new SSB president replacing people since he came aboard. This was a scheduled assembly, it wasn't like they kicked him out suddenly. Here is an article that someone had shared about Haluk Görgün and his priorities in putting people from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and YTU people in positions of power.

Türk Savunma Sanayisinde Yönetimler Değişiyor, Halûk GÖRGÜN Damgasını Vuruyor: Michigan OUT, Rensselaer Polytechnic IN | Stratejik Araştırmalar Merkezi - STRASAM.ORG ®

Yazar, Türk Savunma Sanayisinde Yönetimler Değişiyor, Halûk GÖRGÜN Damgasını Vuruyor: Michigan OUT, Rensselaer Polytechnic IN iddiasını anlatıyor.

strasam.org

The important thing is how this is going to effect projects going forward and if it'll make other defence companies prioritizing serial productions over prototyping like the article suggests.