TR Sensors and Detector Programs

[Kitra]

What is this though?

What you see at the arrow is an anti-reflective coated germanium lens, that is; it is a long-wavelength infrared camera behind it. The curvature of the lens also indicates that it is a wide-angle lens. Several of these are distributed along the fuselage, making it part of an electro-optical distributed aperture system (EO-DAS). That is, a set of IR cameras for 360-degree electro-optical imaging forming the base of the passive self-protection suit.

However, I'm puzzled as to why it is placed so close to the engine.

Ps. search for germanium lens in your favourite search engine.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

{#ElectroOptical}
Laser Range Finder ASELSAN #CETVEL100
Mobile Reconnaissance and Surveillance
Distance Measurement

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1826603401687564426

Laser not harmful to retinas.

 

[Bogeyman]

MURAD AESA RADAR LIQUID COOLING SYSTEM

Unit Weight 29 kg

Unit Operating Temperature Range -40---- +70 celsius

Unit Storage Temperature Range -54 ------- +95 celsius

Cooling Power 4.5 kW

Coolant Flow Rate 10 LPM @60 celsius 3.5 BAR discharge head

Coolant Supply Temperature Range -40 celsius ------- +65 celsius Flow rate is reduced as temperature decreases

Maximum Power Consumption 350 W

Electrical Power Connection 28 VDC

https://anova.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Anova_Brosur_RLCS_01-tr.pdf

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827620956027720106

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827645833447182382

The prototype of the ASELSAN ÇAFRAD Multi-Purpose Phased Array Radar, which is the heart of the TF-2000….

 

[Afif]

I feel like that is an old photo.

 

[Radko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827645833447182382

The prototype of the ASELSAN ÇAFRAD Multi-Purpose Phased Array Radar, which is the heart of the TF-2000….

outdated info

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827645833447182382

The prototype of the ASELSAN ÇAFRAD Multi-Purpose Phased Array Radar, which is the heart of the TF-2000….

I think it is wrong to say Çafrad is the heart of TF-2000 anymore. Design changed considerably and that tweet line is outdated. ÇFR is now tasked with surface detection, EW and IFF, not anti air warfare, which is the main task of the TF-2000.
"Since the S-Band UMR, which was designed for early warning purposes in the old design and designed to detect and track only air-breathing targets at long ranges, will take on a significant part of the load in the new configuration (in addition to early warning, it will also perform the function of precisely guiding HİSAR and SİPER G/Ms to the target), the ÇAFRAD configuration now includes an X-Band Radar (ÇFR) that will focus only on surface engagement. In terms of survivability requirements, the single mast concept has also been abandoned in the ÇAFRAD System, and the single-sided fixed antennas of the S-Band UMR are placed on the right, left and aft sides of the ship's superstructure (bridge), while the antennas of the EFR are located on the integrated main mast."

TF-2000 HSH Muhribi Yeni Tasarımı Üzerine Bir Değerlendirme

DzKK Oramiral Ercüment TATLIOĞLU`nun DzK Dizayn Proje Ofisi (DPO) ziyareti kapsamında 28 Şubat 2024 tarihinde Milli Savunma Bakanlığı (MSB) resmi sosyal medya Twitter hesabında paylaşılan görsellerde

www.defenceturkey.com

I feel like that is an old photo.

It is, it's from when it was tested aboard a Gabya Class frigate back in 2018.

 

[Afif]

View attachment 70239

MURAD AESA RADAR LIQUID COOLING SYSTEM

Unit Weight 29 kg

Unit Operating Temperature Range -40---- +70 celsius

Unit Storage Temperature Range -54 ------- +95 celsius

Cooling Power 4.5 kW

Coolant Flow Rate 10 LPM @60 celsius 3.5 BAR discharge head

Coolant Supply Temperature Range -40 celsius ------- +65 celsius Flow rate is reduced as temperature decreases

Maximum Power Consumption 350 W

Electrical Power Connection 28 VDC

https://anova.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Anova_Brosur_RLCS_01-tr.pdf

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827620956027720106

Cooling capacity only 4.5kw feels low. It is similar to APG-83's (estimated) air cooling on F16 B70. Wouldn't that put limitations on MURAD's duty cycle? @TheInsider @Anmdt

 

[zio]

Cooling capacity only 4.5kw feels low. It is similar to APG-83's (estimated) air cooling on F16 B70. Wouldn't that put limitations on MURAD's duty cycle? @TheInsider @Anmdt

First of all Murat is GaN based radar,APG 83 is GaAs so Murad radar is more tolerable to heat from APG83 this make more power for transmission of RF for the same cooling capability.I thing on the reciever side signal to noise ratio is also better than GaAs system,this is more important than the power of RF signal transmission.Contrary to public belief about APG 83 is also use liquid cooling system,but with help of air cooling system of F16.Air cooling limit of F 16 is 9 kVa and there are many systems need cooling.APG 83 is limited in terms of TR power by software to protect radar.We do not know anything about this on Murat nose radar.

 

[Afif]

Contrary to public belief about APG 83 is also use liquid cooling system,but with help of air cooling system of F16.

Source?

 

[zio]

Northop grunman,war zone

 

[Afif]

First of all Murat is GaN based radar,APG 83 is GaAs so Murad radar is more tolerable to heat from APG83 this make more power for transmission of RF for the same cooling capability.

I do know that. But there is more to this than simple GaN/GaAs equation. Other than antenna array and TRMs, receiver-exciter-processor (REP) and other back-end subsystems also produce heat. For APG-83 it is assumed to be 1.5kw. if MURAD's subsystems is in similar range, then for antenna array you are left with 3/3.5 kw of cooling capacity. That's seems low even for GaN array. (If it were to operate to its fullest ability)

 

[zio]

I do know that. But there is more to this than simple GaN/GaAs equation. Other than antenna array, receiver exciter processor and other subsystems also produce heat. For APG-83 it is assumed to 1.5kw. if MURAD's subsystems is in similar range, then for antenna array you are left with 3/3.5 kw of cooling capacity. That's seems low even for GaN array. (If it were to operate to its fullest ability)

I think aircooling is also in charge,so do not worry.As you know on aesa tech some pinpoint heat can be extreme high,thats were liquid cooling is more beneficial than air cooling.The main electric power of F-16 is 60kVa,so you cannot make a full support of aesa radars GaAs or GaAn,so you have the limits of supply power and cooling.APG 80 matter is very different,they changed a lot of things,turbofan motor,power suuply,cooling,even nose is changed,so its superior to F-16 V and also to F-16 özgür with murat aesa radar.

 

[Sanchez]

EO is hard, building them in numbers for the cheap is harder.

Looks like Turkey bought 25 million worth of "Optical devices, appliances and instruments" from Canada in June 2024 alone. Surely there are some smaller articles in the total number for medical and recreational use, but suffice to say lion's share would go to Wescam.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821171942763725001

 

[Khagan1923]

EO is hard, building them in numbers for the cheap is harder.

Looks like Turkey bought 25 million worth of "Optical devices, appliances and instruments" from Canada in June 2024 alone. Surely there are some smaller articles in the total number for medical and recreational use, but suffice to say lion's share would go to Wescam.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821171942763725001

Are these for Türkiye or are these for export costumers who now don't have to order them themselves when they order UAVs from Türkiye.

Pretty sure we already saw some exported Akincis or Ankas in the past since the ban was lifted with Wescam EOs.
Easier to sell the whole package to your customer then having them order separate EOs.

 

[Sanchez]

Are these for Türkiye or are these for export costumers who now don't have to order them themselves when they order UAVs from Türkiye.

Pretty sure we already saw some exported Akincis or Ankas in the past since the ban was lifted with Wescam EOs.
Easier to sell the whole package to your customer then having them order separate EOs.

Even with embargo in place, customers would order the EOs from Wescam and have it attached by Baykar technicians in the host country. So I doubt that.

 

[TheInsider]

Cooling capacity only 4.5kw feels low. It is similar to APG-83's (estimated) air cooling on F16 B70. Wouldn't that put limitations on MURAD's duty cycle? @TheInsider @Anmdt

Yes, this looks underwhelming.

On the producer's website, it says under the defined conditions it has a 4.5 kW cooling capacity please contact us for cooling capacity. Murad radar has various implementations for Kızılelma, Akıncı, F-16. I don't know if this cooling system is common across different versions.

Defined conditions are 10 LPM(liters per minute) 60 degree Celsius @3.5 bar.

This is the specs of the pump of the system
35 LPM @ 3 bar

https://anova.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GHP_Gerotor_Hidrolik_Pompa_en.pd

So it looks like the cooling capacity can be increased.

When you are cooling the radar you are limited by the cooling system and how much air passes through the radiator of the cooling system (ECS/RAM air). As far as I know, the ECS of the F-16 provides enough air to cool 12 kW. Unless you modify the ECS and add more airflow you are limited by this budget. Needs like Cooling avionics and air conditioning cockpit spend some of this budget and 9kW is left to cool the radar. APG-83 SABR has a 5.5 kW cooling system APG-68(v)9 has a 5.6 kW cooling system. APG-83 is designed to replace APG-68 without modifying anything. It brings better performance than APG-68 because of better efficiency(more bang for the same buck). The same logic applies to Murad radar but I thought TAI/Aselsan would do ECS modifications to increase the airflow for more cooling capacity to bring even more performance. It seems like that might not be the case. We will wait and see. Anyway, 4.5 kW is an odd figure. If you change nothing you should exactly do what SABR developers did and use a 5.5kW cooling system and call it a day.

EO is hard, building them in numbers for the cheap is harder.

Looks like Turkey bought 25 million worth of "Optical devices, appliances and instruments" from Canada in June 2024 alone. Surely there are some smaller articles in the total number for medical and recreational use, but suffice to say lion's share would go to Wescam.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821171942763725001

Aselsan can produce 8 maybe 10 (96-120 per year) Aselflir 500 per month. This amount of production can hardly satisfy our needs if we take exports into account.

Here is an article from 2022 about CATS production

ASELSAN CATS Teslimatları ve Üretim Kapasitesi Artıyor

ASELSAN Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı ve Genel Müdürü Haluk Görgün, CATS Elektro-Optik (EO) Sistemi hakkında güncel bilgileri paylaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

As of this date, over 40 cameras have been delivered to the user. Our mass production continues. We have reached the level of producing 6 per month, and we are trying to increase this to 10.

Finally, the Turkish Armed Forces stopped ordering Wescam products after the Aselflir-500 there is an order in effect about that. Wescam products are related to export deals.

 

[Aloster]

Yes, this looks underwhelming.

On the producer's website, it says under the defined conditions it has a 4.5 kW cooling capacity please contact us for cooling capacity. Murad radar has various implementations for Kızılelma, Akıncı, F-16. I don't know if this cooling system is common across different versions.

Defined conditions are 10 LPM(liters per minute) 60 degree Celsius @3.5 bar.

This is the specs of the pump of the system
35 LPM @ 3 bar

https://anova.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GHP_Gerotor_Hidrolik_Pompa_en.pd

So it looks like the cooling capacity can be increased.

When you are cooling the radar you are limited by the cooling system and how much air passes through the radiator of the cooling system (ECS/RAM air). As far as I know, the ECS of the F-16 provides enough air to cool 12 kW. Unless you modify the ECS and add more airflow you are limited by this budget. Needs like Cooling avionics and air conditioning cockpit spend some of this budget and 9kW is left to cool the radar. APG-83 SABR has a 5.5 kW cooling system APG-68(v)9 has a 5.6 kW cooling system. APG-83 is designed to replace APG-68 without modifying anything. It brings better performance than APG-68 because of better efficiency(more bang for the same buck). The same logic applies to Murad radar but I thought TAI/Aselsan would do ECS modifications to increase the airflow for more cooling capacity to bring even more performance. It seems like that might not be the case. We will wait and see. Anyway, 4.5 kW is an odd figure. If you change nothing you should exactly do what SABR developers did and use a 5.5kW cooling system and call it a day.



Aselsan can produce 8 maybe 10 (96-120 per year) Aselflir 500 per month. This amount of production can hardly satisfy our needs if we take exports into account.

Here is an article from 2022 about CATS production

ASELSAN CATS Teslimatları ve Üretim Kapasitesi Artıyor

ASELSAN Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı ve Genel Müdürü Haluk Görgün, CATS Elektro-Optik (EO) Sistemi hakkında güncel bilgileri paylaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

As of this date, over 40 cameras have been delivered to the user. Our mass production continues. We have reached the level of producing 6 per month, and we are trying to increase this to 10.

Finally, the Turkish Armed Forces stopped ordering Wescam products after the Aselflir-500 there is an order in effect about that. Wescam products are related to export deals.

It seems, we have power shortage for using all capacity Murad radar. Actually we talked for Akinci before at forum and we talked about external power supplies. This kind of solution in a short time and as a cost effective can be applied as generic solution.

I think Basically at future Murad radar applied/used two type flying platforms.

1-) Fast speed (1-2 mach) ,high G (3-9) ,short flying time (3-5 hours) platforms Like jets Kaan, F-16, Hurjet, Kızılelma and future customers planes (Mig , Su and J series)

2-) Slow speed, low G, high endurance planes like Akinci, Aksungur, Anka 3 and manned reconnaissance planes.

For all platforms power production not enough for Murad radars. So we need to apply external power supply for all of them as a two type. Passive and active.

Passive type can be formed as Mk-81 high energy density battery pack which has capacity around 15 Kwh and also can be connected to pylon of plane. U can think as a ups used as needed. May be at here two type also think as chargeable and disposable.

Active type can be formed as Mk-82 3-5 kwh generator with fuel also can be connected to pylon of plane.

As a pros and cons , Capacity of useful payloads decrease but power restrictions can be reduced or eliminated.

 

[TheInsider]

It seems, we have power shortage for using all capacity Murad radar. Actually we talked for Akinci before at forum and we talked about external power supplies. This kind of solution in a short time and as a cost effective can be applied as generic solution.

I think Basically at future Murad radar applied/used two type flying platforms.

1-) Fast speed (1-2 mach) ,high G (3-9) ,short flying time (3-5 hours) platforms Like jets Kaan, F-16, Hurjet, Kızılelma and future customers planes (Mig , Su and J series)

2-) Slow speed, low G, high endurance planes like Akinci, Aksungur, Anka 3 and manned reconnaissance planes.

For all platforms power production not enough for Murad radars. So we need to apply external power supply for all of them as a two type. Passive and active.

Passive type can be formed as Mk-81 high energy density battery pack which has capacity around 15 Kwh and also can be connected to pylon of plane. U can think as a ups used as needed. May be at here two type also think as chargeable and disposable.

Active type can be formed as Mk-82 3-5 kwh generator with fuel also can be connected to pylon of plane.

As a pros and cons , Capacity of useful payloads decrease but power restrictions can be reduced or eliminated.

There is no power shortage you are completely clueless about what is written above. F-16 has a 60 kVA generator which is enough to power everything on an F-16.

 

[Aloster]

There is no power shortage you are completely clueless about what is written above. F-16 has a 60 kVA generator which is enough to power everything on an F-16.

Sorry for wrong generalization. You are right but I dont write just F-16 or Kaan. I see F-16 has 60 kVA gen. I understand problem not only power consumption also cooling air capacity: RAM air (You stated ECS 12 kw for F-16) .

But other platform like Hurjet , Kizilelma , Anka3 . I think their generator capacity and also Ram air capacity smaller than F-16. So probably power and RAM air restrictions also exist . I only focus power part .

Also we have to admit energy consumption increase day by day with adding new electronic suits, sensors. At future we need cost effective generic solutions. Anyway my idea just zihnisinir